I've run through 26 pages of this thread and am still lead to the following comments. If they are redundant, I apologize.
Any historian worth his salt or capable of keeping his political passions in check will acknowledge that historical judgements require the perspective of distance.
A recognized historian may, of course, render a judgment on the relative worth of GWB as a President, but to suggest that such judgement carries any greater "historical" weight than yours or mine is dishonest.
This is precisely why contemporary public polls concerning who is and who is not a great president are of little value at all.
Somewhere in this thread someone presented a poll that indicated the American people think quite highly of Clinton. In fact, if I recall correctly, the poll placed Clinton higher than Lincoln! Please.
In these sort of polls, contemporary president always fare far better than they should.
In closing, the notion that Bush has been "an utter failure" is incredibly ignorant and should embarrass anyone who expresses it.
These are the sort of utterly ridiculous comments that blast holes in the opposition's arguments. Unfortunately they have no problem toeing the line with their intestines hanging out.
Finn wrote:
Any historian worth his salt or capable of keeping his political passions in check will acknowledge that historical judgements require the perspective of distance.
This guy must be blind! When a semi truck hits you.....you don't need any perspective of distance.
okie wrote:BernardR wrote:Parados asks-What Rampant Corruption during the Clinton years.
His memory must be failing him:
He may try to show that the list below is bogus. I don't think he will be able to do that. If he cannot, it stands as proof of Clinton years mired in corruption.
Parados will try in lawyerly fashion, and I can't wait to see what hoops he has us all jump through to deny reality, except that he will argue that reams of circumstantial evidence and countless accusations are not absolute proof beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law besides lying about cavorting with the intern, and of course doing that even displays leadership qualities if you remember the stories concocted by the press on that, so therefore poor Bill is absolutely innocent of absolutely everything and is therefore one of the most upstanding citizens to ever grace the White House, while George Bush is the biggest lying scoundrel, and the dumbest man to ever be president. He will also cite statistics of corruption associated with Ronald Reagan and other presidents to prove that Clinton was an angel compared to them. We've had this conversation before.
P.S. BernardR, I got tired before I read your whole list, but there are surely some things that are left out or forgotten.
I see you failed to provide the source of your Clinton quote. Nice dodge there okie.. Quick tell me what else I am going to say.
cicerone imposter wrote:Finn wrote:
Any historian worth his salt or capable of keeping his political passions in check will acknowledge that historical judgements require the perspective of distance.
This guy must be blind! When a semi truck hits you.....you don't need any perspective of distance.
Not much of a guru if your thinking is so shallow.
Finn, would you judge the person below as an idiot (like Bush) or would you have to wait 100 years to make that decision?
Not to mention the pinhead who posted:
"Laura Bush is a Bobble-Head Doll."
What a brilliantly cogent post.
Oh wait, it's that crusty old fool Gus.
That you would pose such a question Gus-O is proof that you are a contemporaneous idiot. Congratulations Geezer!
cicerone imposter wrote:Taken from the above article.
* From 2005 through 2014, the increased interest payments on the debt that will result from the tax cuts will amount to approximately $1.1 trillion, if the tax cuts are made permanent and the other tax-cut proposals in the Administration's fiscal year 2005 budget are enacted. The interest payments would reach $218 billion in 2014.
Bush keeps pushing for the permanent tax cuts to carry over the current deficits to our children and children's children. What a nice guy!
Here again, does the study assume a zero sum game, or in other words, static conditions for the economy if the tax cuts had not been given? This is crucial to the answer to the question. Does the study estimate the effect of the $35,000 to each of the top 1% of the households, and how that money will be used, such as purchase of products and services that create more jobs, which in turn generates more tax revenue from those jobs and from the profits made by the businesses selling the products, and such as increased investiment into new businesses and other investments that also stimulate the markets, which in turn generate more economic activity and more tax revenue. How does the study pretend to know that tax revenues will be reduced by 1.1 trillion?
I am not an economist, but seems to me that one would have no sure way of calculating the value of the effect. It would only be a wild guess, because the only way to know for sure would be to test both choices in the real world rather than a computer model, with all other conditions being the same, and we know that would be impossible because only one choice can be made, and the same conditions cannot be replicated to try it again with the other choice.
I'm still waiting for John Kerry to admit his campaign lie about Bush re-instating a military draft. Clearly a scare tactic that few bought into, but a lie nonetheless.
Of course, anyone who knows anything about the military would know why a draft wasn't feasible, but no one ever accused John Forgainst Kerry of having that knowledge.
Hey, we're still waiting for Kerry to correct his lies from his Vietnam days of 30 to 40 years ago.
Yeah, like those Swift Boat Vets for Truth. What a bunch of morons.
Interesting: I took Finn's "Bush is an utter failure" and typed that into a search engine. Guess what popped up? LOL
Another Attack On American Soil Will Mark Bush's Utter Failure
Wednesday, April 26 2006 @ 08:29 PM EDT
Contributed by: Monkeyfister
I feel the need to say this right now, and loudly:
George is a total failure. PERIOD. And, he's more dangerous than ever...
-- He allowed America to be attacked by terrorists on Sept. 11th, 2001.
-- He failed to capture or eliminate the masterminds of that attack, and instead of finishing the job he started (justifiably) in Afghananistan, he cut funding, and moved the larger portion of our troops to Iraq, for an elective war, that he lied us into using cooked INTEL, and fearmongering. Our National Guard Units are now in Iraq, instead of Guarding the Nation. Al Qaida and the Taliban are slowly re-taking Afghanistan, and have metasticized into Pakistan. AlQaida recruiting appears to be meeting goals better than the US Army Recruiting.
-- He created the Department of Homeland Security-- the largest expansion of Government since FDR, THEN, he promptly underfunded it, THEN, he ensured that its effective structure would be an abyssmal failure (ie: FEMA), by seating his unqualified cronies and campaign donors in the Director positions. As a result, we have all but lost New Orleans, and have seen our Human and Constitutional Rights systematically stripped in an on-going series of Police State security policies.
-- He has allowed his BFFs in Big Oil and the Energy Industry to gouge working Americans, while removing environmental safeguards, and heaping massive tax-cuts on them, resulting in obscene profits for those companies. At the same time, he has taken no serious effort to spark new, sustainable energy technology development, thus keeping us enslaved to oil.
-- He has isolated America from the rest of the International Community through his hubris, incuriosity, lack of concern and torture policies. Terrorism has INCREASED dramatically as a result.
-- He has NOT secured our ports, and consistently underfunds the effort. He's de-funded First-Responder organizations and systems. He's ready to sell our ports to Iran's and Al Qaida's ally.
-- Now, he's stirring up more international hatred and discontent by talking of a pre-emptive nuclear attack on Iran. meanwhile, Pakistan is on the verge of being taken over by Al Qaida, and the Taliban, who will then have control of nuclear weapons... He's done nothing to alleviate the real threat posed to us by North Korea.
-- The ONLY thing that he is defending and securing is his own political ass.
As a result, we are no safer than we have ever been, and, in fact, America, and her interests abroad, are LESS SAFE than they have ever been.
ANY attack on our soil will be a DIRECT RESULT of this short-list of his MASSIVE failures (there are many, many more known, and unknown), and such an attack SHOULD be viewed as a political stunt to boost his poll numbers. I hate to say it, but it is true. We. Must. Not. Let.That. Happen.
If we lose another city or landmark, and America were to rally around him, instead of demanding his removal, indictment, and imprisonment, then, I would say, we are truly, and forever lost.
I just wanted to get this out there. Maybe it's the start of a meme... I don't know, but, I certainly would hope so.
cicerone imposter wrote:Interesting: I took Finn's "Bush is an utter failure" and typed that into a search engine. Guess what popped up? LOL
Another Attack On American Soil Will Mark Bush's Utter Failure
Wednesday, April 26 2006 @ 08:29 PM EDT
Contributed by: Monkeyfister
I feel the need to say this right now, and loudly:
George is a total failure. PERIOD. And, he's more dangerous than ever...
-- He allowed America to be attacked by terrorists on Sept. 11th, 2001.
-- He failed to capture or eliminate the masterminds of that attack, and instead of finishing the job he started (justifiably) in Afghananistan, he cut funding, and moved the larger portion of our troops to Iraq, for an elective war, that he lied us into using cooked INTEL, and fearmongering. Our National Guard Units are now in Iraq, instead of Guarding the Nation. Al Qaida and the Taliban are slowly re-taking Afghanistan, and have metasticized into Pakistan. AlQaida recruiting appears to be meeting goals better than the US Army Recruiting.
-- He created the Department of Homeland Security-- the largest expansion of Government since FDR, THEN, he promptly underfunded it, THEN, he ensured that its effective structure would be an abyssmal failure (ie: FEMA), by seating his unqualified cronies and campaign donors in the Director positions. As a result, we have all but lost New Orleans, and have seen our Human and Constitutional Rights systematically stripped in an on-going series of Police State security policies.
-- He has allowed his BFFs in Big Oil and the Energy Industry to gouge working Americans, while removing environmental safeguards, and heaping massive tax-cuts on them, resulting in obscene profits for those companies. At the same time, he has taken no serious effort to spark new, sustainable energy technology development, thus keeping us enslaved to oil.
-- He has isolated America from the rest of the International Community through his hubris, incuriosity, lack of concern and torture policies. Terrorism has INCREASED dramatically as a result.
-- He has NOT secured our ports, and consistently underfunds the effort. He's de-funded First-Responder organizations and systems. He's ready to sell our ports to Iran's and Al Qaida's ally.
-- Now, he's stirring up more international hatred and discontent by talking of a pre-emptive nuclear attack on Iran. meanwhile, Pakistan is on the verge of being taken over by Al Qaida, and the Taliban, who will then have control of nuclear weapons... He's done nothing to alleviate the real threat posed to us by North Korea.
-- The ONLY thing that he is defending and securing is his own political ass.
As a result, we are no safer than we have ever been, and, in fact, America, and her interests abroad, are LESS SAFE than they have ever been.
ANY attack on our soil will be a DIRECT RESULT of this short-list of his MASSIVE failures (there are many, many more known, and unknown), and such an attack SHOULD be viewed as a political stunt to boost his poll numbers. I hate to say it, but it is true. We. Must. Not. Let.That. Happen.
If we lose another city or landmark, and America were to rally around him, instead of demanding his removal, indictment, and imprisonment, then, I would say, we are truly, and forever lost.
I just wanted to get this out there. Maybe it's the start of a meme... I don't know, but, I certainly would hope so.
"In closing, the notion that Bush has been "an utter failure" is incredibly ignorant and should embarrass anyone who expresses it."
And doubly so for the moron who who argues that a Google search supports his idiotic contention.
Do you Bush-haters feel somehow heroic in your extreme hatred for the man and his policies? Do you ever look at what you write 24 hours hence?
We all know that you cockroaches would scurry for cover if the State-Police ever made a move toward you.
"Maybe it's the start of a meme..."
Good God what have you been reading? As if you could possibly launch a meme, and particularly one based on a notion that only a minority accepts.
Hey, Finn, lighten up; you'll have a heart attack!
All I did was use your words and typed it into a search engine. Don't like what he says? Challenge it rather than the messenger; it might provide you with more credibility of what you argue.
Quote:Do you Bush-haters feel somehow heroic in your extreme hatred for the man and his policies?
People who use the term 'Bush-hater' are idiots who don't understand a damn thing about why people dislike Bush.
See how easy that is?
Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter wrote:Yeah, like those Swift Boat Vets for Truth. What a bunch of morons.
If you knew anything about Vietnam, you would realize what a moron you are for saying that. I not only donated to their cause, but I studied what they had to say, they were very credible, and their website is the main reason I got started in online debate. The Swiftees are not only honorable men, but I thank them for possibly preventing Kerry from becoming president.
Your above statement is really disappointing.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Good God what have you been reading? As if you could possibly launch a meme, and particularly one based on a notion that only a minority accepts.
Finn, check some other threads and you would become even more concerned about cicerone. He is really losing it big time.
okie wrote:Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Good God what have you been reading? As if you could possibly launch a meme, and particularly one based on a notion that only a minority accepts.
Finn, check some other threads and you would become even more concerned about cicerone. He is really losing it big time.
Whereas, in your case, you never had it to beign with.
For those that continue to question Kerry's medals, support the lies of Swift Boat Vets for Truth, and understand the English language, please read the article of this link:
http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html
