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Oil, will it be the last straw for America?

 
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 06:32 pm
cavolina wrote:
paull

In a normal economic model you are correct. However the oil companies make their own model. The price of oil products is artificially set.
Thus my ongoing rant about effectual Antitrust.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 06:40 pm
Montana wrote:
Chumly wrote:
I feel for you Montana, would car pooling work at all, or is everyone too spaced out (pun)?


Car pooling would mean I would get 3 instead of 4 hours sleep every night ;-(
That stinks! I am sure NB is tougher in some ways than the lower mainland of BC, but there are huge number of insane single passenger SUV's, trucks, big vans etc. that do mega-long-distance commuting every day.
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engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 07:54 pm
cavolina wrote:
In a normal economic model you are correct. However the oil companies make their own model. The price of oil products is artificially set.

in 40 years of working, I don't recall ever seeing a company faced with such dramatic price increases in materials convert them into such huge profits.


This is just not true. The reason Exxon made record profits is that their raw material cost DID NOT GO UP. If a fisherman is catching lobsters and the price of lobsters triples on the market, the fisherman makes a killing. His costs did not rise, but the price he received did. Like that fisherman, Exxon is pulling up a natural resource.

As for the market for oil products, these markets are very competitive. They might not have been 30 years ago, but they are now. Companies can source their materials from virtually any supplier in the world. Paints, plastics, additives, etc. are all extremely competitive. The only difference is that the demand versus supply curve is somewhat flat over narrow price ranges. Just like with gas prices, people won't change their behaviour until the pain rises enough.

If everything was fixed as you suggest, then rapidly raising prices would be extremely stupid. The best strategy for milking the customer would be to raise prices 5-10% per year. That way, no one screams and everyone pays. The example here is banking fees. The reality is that oil prices were flat for over two decades. WHY WOULD SOMEONE DO THAT IF THEY WEREN'T CONSTRAINED BY THE MARKET?

That said, I am interested in the synopsis of your next chapter. You have a perspective both geographically and chronologically that I'd like to hear.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 08:45 pm
Chumly
It is a tough here in my part of New Brunswick because the closest city offering any decent work is 45 minutes away.
I drive an old 20 year old Olds and every time I start getting somewhere in saving for a new car, the gas/oil prices go through the roof and I end up having to dip into those funds.

I truly feel for the truck drivers and I don't know how the hell they get through it, to be honest.

I use to own my own taxi back when the gas prices weren't even worth mentioning and I know how much of a loss I would have taken if I still had that business.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 08:57 pm
Yeah I hear yah babe!

Each year the Miata and the motorcycles get used more and more and the big old vans just for hauling plants and garbage.

You know here's a thought, sometimes you can get a few years old used Honda / Toyota in great shape from a dealer. I gotta say though when I was looking for the Miata and the bikes a few years ago, the used prices were way out of line. Where you are however it might be different.

Admittedly when you buy used, you can never be sure what you are going to get. Ain't no free lunch Sad
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 09:07 pm
Montana wrote:
When you can't make it in the world working an honest living at any full time job, something is seriously wrong and what ticks me off is that those of us who work the hardest have the hardest time getting by.
I'm going back to school and am determined to manage in life without a sruggle, but I ain't happy about it!


At least you probably got a nice tax break from George Bush didn't you? Have you gone through the "writing everything down" analysis of your budget for 3 or 4 months so that you can analyze where to cut costs? Things like cell phones, land lines, cable tv, eating out, snacks, lots of things have potential to offer lots of savings. I feel for your plight, but I think frugality, good planning, and commitment to jobs and your school will pay off if you stay the course. Besides, look at it this way, in the case of movie stars that have no "struggle" for money, some of them are some of the unhappiest people around because there is no challenge. The "struggle" can be a very satisfying endeavor if your attitude is correct. If successful, you will gain much pride and satisfaction from your achievements.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 09:16 pm
No doubt! I did tons of research looking for Toyota's just a few years old and the prices are still up there. My payments would be up there with it, along with not knowing if the car has problems. With the few lemons I bought in my lifetime, I've become rather untrusting of people in the used car area.
I figure, if I'm going to make an investment as large as $20,000, I just assume invest another $10,000 and get a new one, which will in turn keep its value and the odds are that I won't have to worry about anything mechanical for a long time.

I wish we had one of those "beam me up" things like they have on Star Trek, because cars are a pain in the ass......heehee
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 09:22 pm
Try one of these! Fast and nourishing too.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 09:26 pm
okie wrote:
Montana wrote:
When you can't make it in the world working an honest living at any full time job, something is seriously wrong and what ticks me off is that those of us who work the hardest have the hardest time getting by.
I'm going back to school and am determined to manage in life without a sruggle, but I ain't happy about it!


At least you probably got a nice tax break from George Bush didn't you? Have you gone through the "writing everything down" analysis of your budget for 3 or 4 months so that you can analyze where to cut costs? Things like cell phones, land lines, cable tv, eating out, snacks, lots of things have potential to offer lots of savings. I feel for your plight, but I think frugality, good planning, and commitment to jobs and your school will pay off if you stay the course. Besides, look at it this way, in the case of movie stars that have no "struggle" for money, some of them are some of the unhappiest people around because there is no challenge. The "struggle" can be a very satisfying endeavor if your attitude is correct. If successful, you will gain much pride and satisfaction from your achievements.


I am the queen of cutting costs, so there's absolutely nothing left to cut. I can't survive comfortably in the line of work I'm in, so I have no other choice than to go back to school and as much as I love the idea of going back to school, I would've liked to do it willingly and not because the hard work I do now isn't good enough for this world today.

I live in Canada, so no tax breaks for this gal from President Psycho.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 09:28 pm
Chumly wrote:
Try one of these! Fast and nourishing too.



Laughing
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 09:29 pm
Beam me up, Chumly!
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 09:42 pm
Montana wrote:

I live in Canada, so no tax breaks for this gal from President Psycho.


Sorry, I assumed you might live in Montana or Washington. I thought everything was cushy in Canada where the libs had been running things for a while hadn't they?
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 09:59 pm
Things are fine and dandy up this way, except for those damn gas prices ;-)
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 10:06 pm
Which are about twice as high as ours.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 10:08 pm
I heard that it's expected to go up to 1.60 a liter by summer and I'm pretty stressed about it.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 10:09 pm
It's already up to 1.16 a liter.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Apr, 2006 10:13 pm
At 1.16 a liter it's now around 4.70 a gallon and if it goes up to 1.60 a liter this summer, we're looking at aprox 6.40 a gallon. <sigh>
0 Replies
 
cavolina
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Apr, 2006 07:53 am
Chapter 2

While it was true that as more children left home to go to college, many more women went to work. But the key is that many of these women didn't have families. They were twenty somethings just starting out.

My woman was a mother accustomed to staying home and running a household. She was forced into the workplace to keep the family afloat financially.

This is a signal change in culture for our society. Working mothers was not the norm it was the exception. It happened in WWII because we needed the workers. It was not the norm during the 50's and it's my contention that it only happened in the numbers it did because of economic necessity.

An outgrowth of this change was an marked increase in divorce rates. Momma found out she could take care of herself and didn't have to put up with an abusive husband. Having the freedom to make economic choices women didn't have before changed alot of things.


There is a contributor who linked to a website (an oil website incidentally) that purports that the oil company's margins were less than other industries. Okay! But explain how in a time of escalating cost of supplies, the oil companies made record profits. Perhaps it is because they are a cabal that fixes prices.
0 Replies
 
paull
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Apr, 2006 08:43 am
Cavolina, another try:

WHAT escalating cost of supplies?


You are making two arguments, first that oil producers are facing rising costs that you imply are equal to their increased sales. Second that there is NO competition among them.

Leave your credentials behind, since they cannot be proven (and become more doubtful as your arguments become more circular), and do some convincing.

Or the thread can end now, lacking anything but opinion.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Apr, 2006 08:43 am
You're suggesting that OPEC might be a cartel? Okay, I don't see any disagreement.
0 Replies
 
 

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