Hey everybody, quit your whinin over oil companies. I love oil companies. Everybody should. Without them, where would we be? Walking, riding a bicycle across country? Oil is still cheap. Cheaper than bottled water. Free enterprise is wonderful. Believe in it. Contrary to what some sheltered prof at college may have indoctrinated you with, corporations are good and they benefit us all, especially when they are U.S. corporations. They are one of the big reasons why we've accomplished what we have and why we live as well as we do. Engineer, you talk sense. Don't let the people here browbeat you.
Consider this. Oil companies must train their professionals, which include all kinds of engineers, geologists, economists, marketing professionals, you name it. To produce a barrel of oil, it requires acquistion of acreage, exploration techniques of all kinds, drilling which may include many dry holes and which may require very high tech equipment as in offshore drilling platforms, completion and production of wells, transportation of the crude to refineries, building and operation of refineries, and transporting and marketing the product to the consumer, all for a measly 2 or 3 dollars per gallon. If government was doing this, it would undoubtedly cost us at least $10 per gallon. I am safe to say most people on this forum have not the first clue what they are talking about in terms of oil companies gouging the public. Only engineer is talking sense.
And consider this. Anyone, including anyone on this forum, is free to go out and drill for oil if you can raise the capital. Go ahead and prove its a slam dunk and a way to make a killing. After all, its easy, easy, easy, according to some people.
And if oil and natural gas is way overpriced, then it won't be long before alternative energy sources begin to more seriously compete in the marketplace. The way I see it, if prices stay low, everybody wins, and if prices go too high, everybody still wins. Why? Because high prices will spur the development of alternatives, which will benefit all of us in the long run. Such will happen, but it is my opinion that oil and natural gas is still perhaps the cheapest and most efficient energy source, and prices and scarcity will need to become higher and tighter yet to see more phase in of other energy sources.
Last but not least, if the Democrats would let us drill ANWR and other places, such as offshore in some areas, we could develop a slightly better reserve picture, and some slight relief in price could be seen, probably not much because it would only replace what we are depleting now in other fields and reservoirs. Such development would not affect the environment in any noticeable manner.
Fact: unless or until there is a truly consequential structural price increase (in actual after inflation real buying power terms, not simply numerical terms) to the price of petroleum based fuels, nothing much will likely change.
You know, there's one thing I hope I live to see, and that's the day when cars no longer need fuel to run, houses no longer need fuel to heat and people no longer need oil from these greedy bastards who think more of their black gold than they do human life.
And that's all she wrote!
okie wrote:if the Democrats would let us
Last I checked , the Republicans hold the majority in the House, in the Senate, and control the White House.
So how are the Democrats not letting you?
That excuse ran out about 4 years ago.
Montana wrote:You know, there's one thing I hope I live to see, and that's the day when cars no longer need fuel to run, houses no longer need fuel to heat and people no longer need oil from these greedy bastards who think more of their black gold than they do human life.
And that's all she wrote!
What do you do for a living? If you produce something and sell it, are you a greedy "_____."
True greed is wanting something that is not earned and that belongs to someone else. Producing a product and selling it for whatever the price the market bears is not greed. It is honorable and commendable. If you don't wish to buy gasoline, then you are free to walk, or go drill your own oil well.
astromouse wrote:okie wrote:if the Democrats would let us
Last I checked , the Republicans hold the majority in the House, in the Senate, and control the White House.
So how are the Democrats not letting you?
That excuse ran out about 4 years ago.
The Democrats are not letting the drilling, because they demagogue the issue and they have enough like thinking liberal Republicans to side with them. The blame is not entirely Democrat, but the majority is for sure.
Then the amazing thing is at election time, they accuse the Republicans of doing nothing to wean us from foreign oil. The Democrats propose only pie in sky solutions that have not been proven to work well in the market, at least not to any extent to impact the energy consumption in any meaningful way. Wind, solar, hydrogen, ethynol, and all the other ballyhooed solutions are not meaningful immediate solutions in the current market. I think something might eventually work, but it will be a gradational process. Last I checked, this country is still largely a free market society.
Montana wrote:You know, there's one thing I hope I live to see, and that's the day when cars no longer need fuel to run, houses no longer need fuel to heat and people no longer need oil from these greedy bastards who think more of their black gold than they do human life.
And that's all she wrote!
When a car no longer needs fuel to run, then we truly have a "something for nothing" scenario. I guess thats what we would all want. No need to even get out of bed in the morning. Now that would be nice.
Cavolina, you bring expertise to this argument but said something curious in your first post......."they increased their profits so dramatically at a time of increasing cost of supplies"
Fact is, profits rose because the market price for their product, which cost about the same to produce as before, rose dramatically.
I don't doubt that oil companies are greedy and self serving (a good reason to invest in them), but I wonder how an expert like yourself got that simple bit of economics wrong.
Per the following website, oil companies only made about 5.6 cents profit for every dollar of sales in 2005, which is lower than many other industries. Also check out the lower growth rate of gasoline costs compared to other goods and services in the last 20 years or so.
http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/other_resources/energyanswers/oil_profits.htm
Quote:As I end chapter one, Mom had to get at least a part time job.
I want the next chapter. So far we have people living modest lives in single family homes near work and shopping before inflation in the 70's including home heating costs drove women into the workplace. (I think there might be other reasons as well, but let's run with this one.) What's next?
If someone posed this question to me, I would say that high energy costs and the need for daycare would drive higher living densities with more people living in apartments or condos near public transporation and multiple generations of families living together so that grandparents could watch children while parents work. Perhaps we would also see a decline in birthrates. Kind of sounds like Europe. Of course, the exact opposite is our current reality, so how did we get here?
okie wrote:Montana wrote:You know, there's one thing I hope I live to see, and that's the day when cars no longer need fuel to run, houses no longer need fuel to heat and people no longer need oil from these greedy bastards who think more of their black gold than they do human life.
And that's all she wrote!
What do you do for a living? If you produce something and sell it, are you a greedy "_____."
True greed is wanting something that is not earned and that belongs to someone else. Producing a product and selling it for whatever the price the market bears is not greed. It is honorable and commendable. If you don't wish to buy gasoline, then you are free to walk, or go drill your own oil well.
I work in a lobster plant as a labourer who works very long unreasonable hours and it already costs me $70 a week out of my blood earned pay just in gas to get to @#$%^&* work.
The prices keep on going up, yet the wages don't, so the hardest working Joe's and Jane's like myself just can't keep up, so how the #$%@ do we survive?
okie wrote:Montana wrote:You know, there's one thing I hope I live to see, and that's the day when cars no longer need fuel to run, houses no longer need fuel to heat and people no longer need oil from these greedy bastards who think more of their black gold than they do human life.
And that's all she wrote!
When a car no longer needs fuel to run, then we truly have a "something for nothing" scenario. I guess thats what we would all want. No need to even get out of bed in the morning. Now that would be nice.
You're truly not living in my world!
I feel for you Montana, would car pooling work at all, or is everyone too spaced out (pun)?
Montana wrote:okie wrote:Montana wrote:You know, there's one thing I hope I live to see, and that's the day when cars no longer need fuel to run, houses no longer need fuel to heat and people no longer need oil from these greedy bastards who think more of their black gold than they do human life.
And that's all she wrote!
What do you do for a living? If you produce something and sell it, are you a greedy "_____."
True greed is wanting something that is not earned and that belongs to someone else. Producing a product and selling it for whatever the price the market bears is not greed. It is honorable and commendable. If you don't wish to buy gasoline, then you are free to walk, or go drill your own oil well.
I work in a lobster plant as a labourer who works very long unreasonable hours and it already costs me $70 a week out of my blood earned pay just in gas to get to @#$%^&* work.
The prices keep on going up, yet the wages don't, so the hardest working Joe's and Jane's like myself just can't keep up, so how the #$%@ do we survive?
I did the math and you must live a good distance from work. Is it practical to live closer or find a job that is closer to where you live? Have you listed all of your expenses each month for maybe 3 or 4 months to see exactly where the money is going? You may think you know now, but you must write down everything, including sodas and candy bars and the like. After you,ve gone through this exercise, I would suggest you prioritize the expenses and make some hard choices. I would be very surprised if you cannot find some areas that you could not reduce or live without. I understand your situation because I've been through it. I may sound heartless, but I get tired of people whining about greedy oil companies and so forth. Instead of blaming somebody else, most of the time the solution is on our own doorstep.
paull
In a normal economic model you are correct. However the oil companies make their own model. The price of oil products is artificially set.
in 40 years of working, I don't recall ever seeing a company faced with such dramatic price increases in materials convert them into such huge profits.
Exxon/Mobil made 10 billion last year. Did you have any impact on the price they charged for a gallon of gasoline or heating fuel? I certainly didn't. There is no competition in the oil business.
Okie
How smart you are about how valuable corporations are. How many of them actually pay taxes? GE, for one hasn't for years. Stanley, the tool company, is now offshore and avoids its share of the tax burden.
Maybe a homeland defense analogy might help. Compare the need for a strong national defense and the need for oil. We need a military and we pay for it out of our taxes. We need oil now. It is imperative to our survival as a nation. Everything we eat, wear, or use is related to oil. Why isn't this considered an item of national security and nationalized?
What? The government is going to tax us, and give us free oil? Swell.
Chumly wrote:I feel for you Montana, would car pooling work at all, or is everyone too spaced out (pun)?
Car pooling would mean I would get 3 instead of 4 hours sleep every night ;-(
okie wrote:Montana wrote:okie wrote:Montana wrote:You know, there's one thing I hope I live to see, and that's the day when cars no longer need fuel to run, houses no longer need fuel to heat and people no longer need oil from these greedy bastards who think more of their black gold than they do human life.
And that's all she wrote!
What do you do for a living? If you produce something and sell it, are you a greedy "_____."
True greed is wanting something that is not earned and that belongs to someone else. Producing a product and selling it for whatever the price the market bears is not greed. It is honorable and commendable. If you don't wish to buy gasoline, then you are free to walk, or go drill your own oil well.
I work in a lobster plant as a labourer who works very long unreasonable hours and it already costs me $70 a week out of my blood earned pay just in gas to get to @#$%^&* work.
The prices keep on going up, yet the wages don't, so the hardest working Joe's and Jane's like myself just can't keep up, so how the #$%@ do we survive?
I did the math and you must live a good distance from work. Is it practical to live closer or find a job that is closer to where you live? Have you listed all of your expenses each month for maybe 3 or 4 months to see exactly where the money is going? You may think you know now, but you must write down everything, including sodas and candy bars and the like. After you,ve gone through this exercise, I would suggest you prioritize the expenses and make some hard choices. I would be very surprised if you cannot find some areas that you could not reduce or live without. I understand your situation because I've been through it. I may sound heartless, but I get tired of people whining about greedy oil companies and so forth. Instead of blaming somebody else, most of the time the solution is on our own doorstep.
It's not only the the gas it takes to go to work, but also the oil I need to heat my house.
I would have to sell my home and buy a home in an undesirable area near the city I work in and I'm just not willing to do that.
I applied for a job last week that is only 5 minutes from my house and this will help me a bit in the gas area, but it does nothing to help my home oil situation.
What truly devistates me and others in my position is when the prices suddenly skyrocket out of no where and you don't have time to come up with a financial plan to cover the extra $200-$300 a month it costs me every time this happens.
I'm a single mother who raised my son on my own, so I didn't have the ability to go after the career I always wanted and now that my son is grown, I'm forced to go back to school and start from scratch at 42 years old, because I can't afford oil and I can't begin to tell you how much that sucks.
When you can't make it in the world working an honest living at any full time job, something is seriously wrong and what ticks me off is that those of us who work the hardest have the hardest time getting by.
I'm going back to school and am determined to manage in life without a sruggle, but I ain't happy about it!
