What should be done about illegal immigration?

gus, Your worries about the Japanese have been solved; most of our children are marrying across cultures, and Japanese Americans now represent the smallest Asian population in the US. Before and soon after WWII, we used to be the second largest Asians in the US.

I can not buy that sort of logic.

I still don't trust you, CI.

Those swamp people just can't look beyond the moor.

gus, That's okay; I still trust you - to be witty and intelligent that brings laughter to me soul.

Everyday, Jane, EVERY SINGLE DAY!!, I wake up and see legions of brown-skinned people rowing across my swamp in their makeshift boats. The fog clears and I see those sombreros and I quake with fear.

But such is my life.

What, gustav? Is cj out of town and you're substituting for him?

Well the issue was whether the Minutemen are racist and/or exploiting or abusing Mexicans, and I have seen zero evidence of that.

On the rest of your concerns C-Jane, wouldn't you say closing the border would stop such exploitation and abuse?

Yes, of course, Foxyfire, however I don't think that Minuteman is the
answer to that. Our answer lies within Mexico itself. If all the money
that is spent to secure our borders is put to better use, then the U.S.
could help stop corruption, build up their economy and promote better
education.

We could transform our borders into mine fields and it woudn't stop
illegal immigration.

Well it would stop some, but I surely don't advocate that. Somewhere waaaay back there I expressed my reservations about a wall. I don't like to wall people off. At the same time, I am among the majority who thinks that the United States should call the shots on who will and who will not be here legally, and I think people should not be able to ignore our laws with impunity.

I am all for Mexico cleaning up its act so that its people will not want to leave there. But short of invasion, how can we do that? By what authority can we demand it?

But maybe if we make our own climate so inhospitable to illegals that we will pretty well ensure that most who come here will do so legally, the Mexican people themselves will demand that their country clean up its act. If you don't have an easy way out, most of us will deal with the problem.

Mexico may be the major source of our illegal immigrants, but we're blaming the wrong people. It's our federal government that deserves all the blame.

The feds have never enforced the laws already on the books. What can we expect? Laws without force is useless.

You know, I sort of expect people to respect our laws whether or not they are rigidly enforced. Don't you? Who is to blame when somebody blows a stop sign or drives drunk or cheats on his/her taxes--the person committing the crime or the law enforcement agency that failed to catch them?

This whole debate however is fueled by people who are fed up with the laws not being enforced and demanding that they be enforced. And of course the opposition does not want the laws enforced.

So where's the blame? Somebody? Anybody? Nobody?

I stand by my previous statement. We're talking about illegal immigration here, not stop signs.

Well, the US government never asked before when pressuring/invading other countries

Fun aside, Mexico has to collaborate with the United States in this, otherwise
it won't work, but Mexico cannot afford to not comply.

Allowing a "guest worker" program where Mexicans can legally work in
the United States for a limited time (with renewal option) would also
eliminate most of the problems in addition to improving tax revenues.
Guest worker status protects the employer as well as the Mexican
employee. Should there still be illegal employment after that, then
the employer is held responsible (without exceptions).

Remember that a wall has two sites? You are behind it as well.



It's thaught that there are 2% illegals among the (really low number of about 200.000/year of) immigrants in Germany.

According to an article in the conservative paper "Die Welt" (read that recently, sorry, not online) quite a few are ex-American soldiers who stay here after their leave.

Which is okay - no need to clean that up.

There are not large numbers of Americans attempting to enter Mexico illegally and those that do are not received hospitably if they are caught. Mexico has no need of a wall. A wall nvertheless would not in any way keep out anybody entering either country legally whether they were going north or south, but would make it more difficult for those who wish to enter illegally.

The purpose of the wall I support. I, however, have a dislike of walls for the purpose of shutting people out. For me it is an aesthetic thing rather than any practical objection.



Then you're saying you take no action against those illegals that are know to be living illegally in Germany? I suppose if only 2% of the people entering the United States were illegal, we wouldn't see it as much of a problem either. There is still a strong majority opinion, however, that those who want to live here should obey the laws to come here and to stay here.

I'm trying to digest this from Theodore Roosevelt:

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907


What do you think?

immigrants
what do we expect people who live in poverty to do ?
should their first order of business be to obey all laws ?

at one time there was a wall between west and east-germany . of course it was erected by east-germany. they didn't want to let their people out ... and shot at them , if they tried to . still , the east-germans tried to get out ... and eventually the wall came down .

i see the mexicans like hungry kids standing at the entrance to a grocery-store and being told that they can't go in - they must stay hungry .
imo it's not going to work -short of shooting them - . it's like water running down a mountain , you may stop it up temporarily , but eventually its going to force its way down the mountain (isn't that what happens when the soil collapses and comes down the mountain - sometimes killing the people trying to stop it ?)

just last night saw a short film by the BBC . it showed people walking across the sahara , making their way to north-africa ... hoping to cross the strait of gibraltar ... and trying to reach europe .
they were being asked : "aren't you afraid of being killed ? of drowning trying to cross the water ? " . thier answer was simple : "we want to go to europe !" - no ifs , no buts - what did they have to loose ? their life ?
well , it's a life they don't want to continue to live .

these migrations have taken place for milleniums - sometimes they increase , sometimes they decrease ; i doubt they'll ever stop .

(mrs h was stuck behind the soviet-lines - in the eastern part of germany -when the war ended . she has often said : "if my father would not have been able to get us out , i would have tried to get to the west-germany on my own somehow ". of course , it would have been illegal - she would have broken the laws as they existed at that time . i don't think that would have stopped her).
hbg

I think as Theodore Roosevelt does. Those who want to live here should also want to be Americans, love her flag, learn the common language, and pledge their undivided allegiance to the United States. For me this is not negotiable.

I also understand that many who come to the United States illegally do so out of desperation, and I feel as much compassion for these people as anyone else does, and also put my money and some of my time where my mouth is. For these people I favor a legal work program. I also favor a path to citizenship if they want it, but they have to come respecting the law in the first place, learn the language, and pledge their undivided allegiance to the United States flag and Constitution.

Having said that, those who think all who come are just coming out of a need to work to feed themselves or their families are living a pipe dream. Easily 30% of the jail and prison population of New Mexico is comprised of illegals who have been convicted of drug smuggling, rape, murder, battery, burglary, armed robbery, and other serious crimes. I read recently that as much as 40% of California's prison population are illegals.

And finally the bottom line is that the United States cannot take in and support all the world's poor without becoming a third world country itself. Whether Mexican or African or Asian or South American or anywhere else, people are poor and desperate and, so long as Americans remain rich by comparison, we have the ability and will to help. We serve nobody, certainly not the poor, if we impoverish ourselves. We simply must be able to control how many that come so that those who do come can be assimilated profitably for both them and us. We can no doubt increase the quotas, but everybody needs to get in line and do it legally.

And we must be able to bring those here who do respect our liaws and our culture and language and hopefully weed out most of those who are swelling our prison populations before they get here.

And Hamburger, I have Austiran relatives and Italian relatives who escaped those countries to avoid being forced into the Axis regimes They eventually came through Ellis Island and became Americans. At least I'm sure of the Italians. My Austrian grandmother may have come a bit earlier.

While I appreciated your post I think there is a difference between attempting to escape a national prison where the authorities will not allow you to emigrate--in this case you are not taking from anybody else--and in attempting to move onto the property of another and avail yourself iof the other's resources illegally.

American principles look at an unalienable right as that which requires nothing from anybody else other than his/her noninterference. Freedom certainly qualifies as an unalienable right...UNTIL....it requires contribution from others or infringes on their unalienable rights.