50
   

What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 08:57 pm
@Brandon9000,
You're hung up legal and illegal; that's the job for our government. Your opinions are meaningless before and after the facts of history.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 09:21 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
We have the right to preserve our national culture and not let people from any area...


Exactly who are you talking about when you say "We have the right..." and "our national culture" ? Do "we" also have the right to choose to let people stay? Do we get to decide what constitutes "our national culture"?

Does "we" refer to all Americans, or just a small group of white conservatives?

Most Americans want the Senate bill.


Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 09:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You're hung up legal and illegal; that's the job for our government. Your opinions are meaningless before and after the facts of history.

Yeah, how stupid of me to think that as a citizen I can wish that laws would be enforced. How stupid of me to think that the citizens are the boss of the government.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:00 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
We have the right to preserve our national culture and not let people from any area...


Exactly who are you talking about when you say "We have the right..." and "our national culture" ? Do "we" also have the right to choose to let people stay? Do we get to decide what constitutes "our national culture"?

Does "we" refer to all Americans, or just a small group of white conservatives?

Most Americans want the Senate bill.

Are you denying that America has a national culture? Are you saying that no country has the right to preserve its national culture? It doesn't seem like an unreasonable wish to me. I am saying that the legal residents of the country have the right to prevent millions of foreign nationals from establishing outposts of their country and culture within ours, particularly when said foreign nationals came here in violation of our immigration laws. Does France have the right to prevents millions and millions of Germans from entering their country illegally and establishing outposts of Germany within France?
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:18 pm
@Brandon9000,
The American Culture is a conglomeration of many cultures. Even the English language is based on many different languages.

In today's California, WASPS are a minority.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  4  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:27 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
Are you denying that America has a national culture?


Of course America has a national culture. And it belongs to me and to you and to every citizen. In fact, the American national culture belongs to all of us Americans including those of us who speak Spanish (and some people who speak Spanish are descended from people living in the US borders since before my white European ancestors got here.)

Your mistake is thinking that the White American English Speaking sub-culture represents all of American culture. You are quite wrong historically, legally and politically.

America belongs to all Americans, not just to white conservatives. The Republican party would be wise to remember that because all Americans have the right to vote.

mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 11:39 pm
@maxdancona,
America belongs to all Americans, and to those that are here LEGALLY.
But not to those people that are here illegally.

BTW, not all Americans have a right to vote, nor should they.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 11:58 pm
@mysteryman,
I am not disputing that, Mysteryman.

But the decision to grant the 11 million in question a pathway to citizenship is not only in the hands of white conservatives. Every American citizen has an equal voice.

All I am saying is that white conservative American citizens are no more American than brown-skinned Spanish speaking American citizens, or Asian American citizens, or homosexual American citizens.

All of us have an equal ownership of American culture and an equal political voice.

I hope that you and Brandon can at least agree on that point.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 12:38 am
@Brandon9000,
This was the argument made in the past to keep out hispanics, blacks, irish, and italians. But after one generation they all became good U.S. citizens who voted. Isent this your real objection?
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 12:42 am
@Brandon9000,
10,000,000 people are but 3% of our population. Thats a small number if you look at it rationally.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 04:46 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
Does France have the right to prevents millions and millions of Germans from entering their country illegally and establishing outposts of Germany within France?


No it doesn't. That's part of the freedom of movement in the EU. If the entire population of Germany decided to up sticks and move to France they could do so perfectly legally. It's not happened though, and won't happen, the entire notion is ludicrous, only an ignoramus would suggest it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 06:07 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
Does France have the right to prevents millions and millions of Germans from entering their country illegally and establishing outposts of Germany within France?
Yes. It does. However, courts have to decide that.
And as far as I could find out, there isn't any list.
(A quick research by a friend at a French university suggests that about 8 to ten Germans aren't allowed to enter France just now.)

Actually, no one asks for any papers when we enter. There are, however,less German than English "outposts" in France: in Normandy and Brittany, there are villages where English is the common language ...
By the way:
EU wrote:
During your stay in your new country, you should be treated as a national of the country, notably as regards access to employment, pay, benefits facilitating access to work, enrolment in schools etc.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 07:15 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Actually, no one asks for any papers when we enter. There are, however,less German than English "outposts" in France: in Normandy and Brittany, there are villages where English is the common language ...


Don't forget about Provence, and as for the Costa del Sol....
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 07:25 am
@izzythepush,
Oops. Of course. When I'd been to Nice the last time (out of season), at was like being in Blackpool during the summer holidays ...
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 07:30 am
Quote:
"One thing I think is pretty clear," Priebus told CNN. "We wouldn't have been in this place without Republicans being at the table pushing for immigration reform. And I think this conversation would never be happening without Marco Rubio."


source
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 07:41 am
@revelette,
It's nice that Reince Priebus has a sense of humor.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 08:34 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

BTW, not all Americans have a right to vote, nor should they.
Even non-Germans can vote here:
Basic Law (German constitution) in Article 28 wrote:
In county and municipal elections, persons who possess citizenship in any member state of the European Community are also eligible to vote and to be elected in accord with European Community law. In municipalities a local assembly may take the place of an elected body.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 04:05 pm
@maxdancona,
I 100%agree with you, however the people in Washington do not listen to every American.
I am not disputing anything you are saying, except for your comment about voting.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 04:07 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, do you allow severly mentally retarded citizens to vote?
Do you allow people under a certain age to vote?

Do you allow convicted criminals, especially those convicted of being war criminals or nazi's to vote?

My point is that every country puts restrictions on who can vote.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Jun, 2013 04:27 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
I 100%agree with you, however the people in Washington do not listen to every American.
I am not disputing anything you are saying, except for your comment about voting.


Americans widely support the Senate proposal (as shown by poll after poll). It is the GOP lead house that is not listening to Americans (except in their gerrymandered districts).

The Republicans can't even bring the Senate bill, or anything like it, to the floor of the House because it would pass. They are invoking the hyper-partisan "Hastert rule" which gives the Tea Party the ability to prevent the bill from being voted on.

The Senate bill, which combines a pathway to citizenship along with border security, is what the majority of the American public wants. It is a shame that a minority in the House of Representatives can block it.

Don't you think that the House leadership should have the guts to bring it to the floor for an up or down vote where the majority wins?


 

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