What should be done about illegal immigration?

@Pemerson,

They may have been exaggerating the problems that Mexico is currently having with Narcotraffickers. Saying "they have no law" could be an expression for "crime is really bad".

However, in much of Mexico, crime is not that high. I was there a couple of months ago.

In Juarez (a city on the border) things are really bad. I spent a couple of days there... there are pickup trucks with masked heavily armed soldier all over the place. People are in general pretty scared.

However, in Guadalajara things are pretty normal. People live pretty well, there are businesses and nice cars and as I said, indoor plumbing. Police are noticeable, but not scary.

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@Pemerson,

Pemerson wrote:

OK, sorry, stupid thing for me to say.

My son is married to a girl from Mexico who is an attorney, she got her degree in Mexico. They live here but visit there quite often. Both say Mexico has no law. What, then, are they talking about? That was their reply when I suggested another stupid thing - they are such close neighbors, maybe we could all just blend together.

So, I'll check this out. Did see your website, thank you. I'll call them in Michigan tomorrow and get back here. They are two intelligent people.

Don't mind Brownie. He is just a literalist, not realizing that some countries are effectively, if not literally, lawless. He has little of value to say, so he jumps on an opportunity to take something literally.

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@Pemerson,

When you say mexico you push Brownies button. He is one of those people who think mexican and u.s. citizen is the same thing with the same rights.

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@Pemerson,

Pemerson wrote:

OK, sorry, stupid thing for me to say.

My son is married to a girl from Mexico who is an attorney, she got her degree in Mexico. They live here but visit there quite often. Both say Mexico has no law. .....

Not stupid at all - you, your son, and your daughter in law are perfectly correct: just add to your statement :"......Mexico has no law that is being enforced". Mr Brown_Munoz who called you stupid can only show that Mexico has plenty of laws on the books. Enforcement is a different thing altogether - just see the skyrocketing prices paid to kidnappers of wealthy individuals by their families in order to get them back.

There's no wealthy or even middle-class family in Mexico without some measure of private security protection. Btw, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the drug cartels - mentioning them is just blowing smoke in your face for reasons already explained to you by other posters here.

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
Don't put the cart before the horse. First, Mexico would have to develop laws. They have no law.

That is an really, really stupid thing to say. Mexico not only has laws... they have a Congress and a President and indoor plumbing.

http://www.diputados.gob.mx/LeyesBiblio/

Perhaps in name they do. The reality is that Mexico is in many places and ways a bandit nation... I know a lot of people who have had bad experiences there.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Dammit Cycl - here I find myself in complete agreement with you! This is truly a memorable occasion Smile

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@High Seas,

Quote:

There's no wealthy or even middle-class family in Mexico without some measure of private security protection.

This is also a lie. I was in Mexico visiting people who were middle class living in Guadalajara. If by private security protection you mean a house alarm... then you might have a point, but that would be true of many middle class families living in the US as well.

When is the last time any of you have been to Mexico?

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@High Seas,

speaking of memorable occasions, there was that time I agreed with Helen but I don't remember the circumstance.

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@dyslexia,

I've already SAID I love you too - how could that occasion have slipped your mind I can't imagine!

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Quote:

There's no wealthy or even middle-class family in Mexico without some measure of private security protection.

This is also a lie. I was in Mexico visiting people who were middle class living in Guadalajara. If by private security protection you mean a house alarm... then you might have a point, but that would be true of many middle class families living in the US as well.

When is the last time any of you have been to Mexico?

It's been a few years, and I won't go back, because I didn't enjoy the experience of being afraid, and if trouble does arise, who the hell are you going to turn to? Can't trust the police.

I'd rather spend my vacation money in a more civilized place...

Cycloptichorn

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@ebrown p,

So you know ONE middle-class family, in ONE city in Mexico, which ONLY employs ONE house alarm monitoring service? Well that's proof positive that there's no crime in that entire country! Try and read what you post before accusing other posters of stupidity or "lies" - particularly on any legal matter, since you're advocating unconditional amnesty for all illegal aliens.

Only in California, the governor has offered to build prisons in Mexico where housing tens of thousands of criminal illegals currently in state prisons would be cheaper - presumably they should be amnestied as well.

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@High Seas,

How many middle class families do you know in Mexico High Seas? (Factually I know, and have visited several middle-class families in several cities.)

You are talking out of your ass and you clearly have no idea about what life is like in Mexico other then what you have gotten from news about crime filtered through your own bigotry.

If anyone else actually has been to Mexico, they will tell you the same.

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@rabel22,

rabel22 wrote:

When you say mexico you push Brownies button. He is one of those people who think mexican and u.s. citizen is the same thing with the same rights.

He's not alone...the Mexican government feels that way as well LOL.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

It's been a few years, and I won't go back, because I didn't enjoy the experience of being afraid,

This says far more about you then it does about Mexico.

((Would you feel safer in Jamaica?))

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
It's been a few years, and I won't go back, because I didn't enjoy the experience of being afraid,

This says far more about you then it does about Mexico.

((Would you feel safer in Jamaica?))

No - I wouldn't go to Jamaica either, because it is a bandit nation as well.

I don't like going to places where the cops are so corrupt that you can't turn to them if you are in trouble, sorry. And you know this is the case in Mexico.

You can defend Mexico all you like - and we both know you will - but who do you think you're kidding? You know that it suffers from the problems I describe, and you know that non-hispanic people such as myself have a much different experience there then those who speak the language or have family there. Why the hell would I go spend my money and time there? It's an unacceptable risk.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclo,

Whether you want to go or not is your thing. You don't know what you are talking about. Yes, there is crime and yes there is some corruption (particularly with the lucrative drug trade).

But your image of a "bandit nation" is blown way out of proportion.

Cities have local police forces that are competent and available. Mexicans and tourists alike go to business areas with a full confidence of safety. In downtown Mexico city, if you walk in the streets at night you will find them full of people enjoying music-- middle-class families taking their kids out for ice cream in downtown after dark is a normal sight.

Tourists are generally safer-- outside of hot spots, like Juarez, there is little crime against tourists and the police in places that depend on tourism take special care of tourists.

Yes, there is crime (although far less then some other places)... and the affect of the war between the government and the narcotraffickers is serious and bloody, but Mexico is far from the lawless, scary "bandit nation" that you imagine. People who avoid the dangerous hotspots on the border and act in reasonable ways are not in any significant danger in Mexico.

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Cyclo,

Whether you want to go or not is your thing. You don't know what you are talking about. Yes, there is crime and yes there is some corruption (particularly with the lucrative drug trade).

But your image of a "bandit nation" is blown way out of proportion.

No it isn't.

Quote:

Cities have local police forces that are competent and available. Mexicans and tourists alike go to business areas with a full confidence of safety.

this is specifically untrue in many areas. I know this from personal experience and from that my family and friends have had.

Quote:

In downtown Mexico city, if you walk in the streets at night you will find them full of people enjoying music-- seeing middle-class families going out for ice cream in downtown after dark is a normal sight.

Tourists are generally even safer-- outside of hot spots, like Juarez, there is little crime against tourists.

Yes, there is crime (although far less then some other places)... but Mexico is far from the lawless, scary "bandit nation" that you imagine.

It's not my imagination. And while there probably are pockets that are relatively fine, there are many places where it is not safe at all to be a foreigner and where you cannot trust the police. Not only this, there exists significant levels of corruption in the judiciary and government.

Per wikipedia:

Quote:

According to the CNDH, only one out of every ten crimes is reported in Mexico. Furthermore, only one out of 100 crimes actually goes to sentencing. The former is due to lack of trust from citizens to the authorities. This means that one out of every 1000 crimes is punished. [18]

That's Mexico's own National Human Rights commission concluding that the population doesn't trust the police enough to report crimes. Hardly a ringing endorsement or a sign of a modern, civilized country.

However, before we go any farther, I know that you would die before allowing criticism of Mexico or anything having to do with Hispanic people stand unchallenged, no matter what the statistics are; and I'm not really interested in a ten-post back and forth with you on the subject. I think the facts speak for themselves.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

So, haven't heard from son, but he doesn't like it when we express any fear when they travel to Mexico to see her huge family. Usually, they fly to Arizona (visitng other family), then drive a rental car into Mexico. Over Xmas they were in Cancun for a wedding and stay in a place on the ocean (about 70 miles north of Hermasillo where she is from) when they visit with her family & friends.

He doesn't think there is anything to be afraid of traveling or being in Mexico but they talk of the lawlesness. This is their life, and this guy has never had much fear. Both my sons sorta live on the edge. When you bring your kids up to be independent, they are INDEPENDENT.

I suppose they were speaking of laws not being enforced. I've been in Mexico twice, first trip was honeymoon. My God, that country has provided Americans with so much luxury, just plain old pleasure, for a very very long time, with not much expense compared to other vacation spots 'round the globe.

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@Pemerson,

Pemerson wrote:

I suppose they were speaking of laws not being enforced. I've been in Mexico twice, first trip was honeymoon. My God, that country has provided Americans with so much luxury, just plain old pleasure, for a very very long time, with not much expense compared to other vacation spots 'round the globe.

I have a hard time enjoying luxury when surrounded by abject poverty.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

You crack me up Cylco,

You post one thing that could possibly be called a "fact", just one... which happens to be a second hand cite from a wikipedia article. This fact is that Wikipedia says that a Mexican Civil Rights organization says that people don't trust the police.

From this you are willing to say that Mexico is an "uncivilized", "bandit nation" with "no law" where you can't report crime. (And you think it is strange that as someone who actually knows what life is like in this place you are describing would object to this".

Then you say "the facts speak for themselves"?

1 Reply

What should be done about illegal immigration?

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