50
   

What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 03:59 pm
@roger,
roger wrote :

Quote:
Illegals, or legal immigrants and workers, can, in fact vote, if they can come up with a legitimate registered voter's name within the precinct. If they show up before you do, and initial your name - well, it looks like you've got a problem.


do you not have to show any legal identification before you are allowed to vote in the U.S. ?
anyone wanting to vote in the federal election canada has to have proper identification or must be vouched for by an elector on the same voter list .
and party scrutineers keep a hawk's eye on anyone who wants to be vouched for .
hbg

from canada's election regulations :

Quote:
When you vote, you MUST prove your identity and address. You have three options:

Option 1
Provide one original piece of identification issued by a government or government agency containing your photo, name and address (e.g. driver’s licence).

or
Option 2
Provide two original pieces of identification authorized by the Chief Electoral Officer of Canada. Both pieces must contain your name, and one must also contain your address (e.g. health card and hydro bill).

or
Option 3
Swear an oath and be vouched for by an elector who is on the list of electors in the same polling division and who has an acceptable piece or pieces of identification (e.g. a neighbour, your roommate).
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:10 pm
@hamburger,
The way it works here when you go to the voting place is a) you must tell them your name and address (or bring your voting pamphlet with your name and address on it), b) they will identify you name on their list and show you where you are registered to vote, and c) ask you to sign on the line they designate.

I've been voting absentee ballot for over ten years now, and send in my ballot with my signature on the envelope - required to be counted.

How does any illegal get through the voting procedures in person and/or sign another person's signature?
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This voting thing is a stupid silly tangent.

There is no evidence of any significant amount of voting by illegal people. Roger suggests that someone could vote under your name (and this of course is not really an immigration issue).

Of course, if this happened on any significant scale, it would be quite easy to detect.

There is no one I know of who supports non-citizens voting in national elections.

The argument really is whether the risk of disenfranchising vulnerable US citizens who for some reason have trouble producing ID is more important than the risk that non-citizens voters will cast votes.

There is more evidence of US citizens who should be able to vote being turned away than there is of non-citizens voting. But I guess it is a matter of your values.


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:40 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown, They like to make it a big deal now, because the republicans lost the last election. When asked to show proof about how many illegals are actually voting, they can't produce factual info.

They love to play the "fear" game. WMDs, homosexual marriage, abortion, higher taxes, terrorist attack on the US, and Obama.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:43 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
This perpetual whining and bleating rant of "racism!" on your part is truly tiresome.


Gets through the chinks in your armour, does it, HS?


This is about US laws, JTT. Around here we spell it "armor" - not to mention we never lived through the Dark Ages, where you are, personally, forever condemned to fester. Now get lost, willya, go back and harass folks in your very own jurisdiction, while you wait for Inferno's bottom circle, which you have amply deserved. Thank you so much for your valuable contribution to our medieval lexicon Smile
BigTexN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:47 pm
@ebrown p,
Quote:
There is no evidence of any significant amount of voting by illegal people.


You can't possibly have evidence if data isn't kept, tracked or monitored. How can you verify that a person is/is not who they say they are if you don't check their ID in the first place.

The "no evidence" argument doesn't hold water.



High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:51 pm
@BigTexN,
Nothing here said by Brown-Munoz has any validity, Tex, so don't waste words on him - I only do that when he crosses even his own vast margins of absurdity.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:51 pm
@BigTexN,
Then you must have "evidence" to show how many illegals are voting.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:52 pm
@BigTexN,
The hardline left Democrats fought tooth and nail to prevent any form of ID being produced in order to register to vote in New Mexico. After massive public pressure to do so, they finally relented and at least allowed photo IDs to be shown at the polling places in the last election, but there are those who are trying to get that rolled back too--presumably all the dead people who used to vote are now pretty much disenfranchised. People still don't have to show any kind of ID in order to register to vote.

I ask you, how does it disenfranchise eligible voters to prove their identity when they register to vote and when they vote? What possible reason would there be to discourage that unless it was that photo IDs make it at least somewhat more difficult to cheat?

It was once a real rite of passage to go down to the County Clerk's office when you turned 21 (later 18) and register to vote. It was what responsible, patriotic citizens did and we knew we had to do it at least six weeks before the election. And it was considered one's civil duty to make it to the designated polling place to vote on election day. If you absolutely could not do that, then it was your responsibility to obtain an absentee ballot, competently fill it in, and properly file it.

Why was that such a bad system?
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It's called a recount, Cicerone. Not always an available remedy to illegal votes.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:54 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
Around here we spell it "armor"...


Take a deep breath, HS. Your ignorance is duly noted.

Along with your willingness to subvert those treasured American notions relating to free speech.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 04:58 pm
@High Seas,
Recount laws are already on the books in most (if not all) states.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 05:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
These laws don't come into effect automatically, Cicerone, someone has to ASK for a vote recount; if nobody asks, then there's no recounting. You should know this.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 05:06 pm
@JTT,
Free speech as defined in the First Amendment refers to POLITICAL speech, you dimwitted JTT. It bears NO connection to pesky nitpickers and assorted pests such as yourself - so goodbye, JTT, the door is THAT WAY, and take Brown-Munoz with you.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 05:06 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

The hardline left Democrats fought tooth and nail to prevent any form of ID being produced in order to register to vote in New Mexico. After massive public pressure to do so, they finally relented and at least allowed photo IDs to be shown at the polling places in the last election, but there are those who are trying to get that rolled back too--presumably all the dead people who used to vote are now pretty much disenfranchised. People still don't have to show any kind of ID in order to register to vote.

I ask you, how does it disenfranchise eligible voters to prove their identity when they register to vote and when they vote? What possible reason would there be to discourage that unless it was that photo IDs make it at least somewhat more difficult to cheat?

It was once a real rite of passage to go down to the County Clerk's office when you turned 21 (later 18) and register to vote. It was what responsible, patriotic citizens did and we knew we had to do it at least six weeks before the election. And it was considered one's civil duty to make it to the designated polling place to vote on election day. If you absolutely could not do that, then it was your responsibility to obtain an absentee ballot, competently fill it in, and properly file it.

Why was that such a bad system?
as usual, this is totalbullshit, I was born in Pueblo Colorado, I have lived alternately in Colorado and New Mexico for the past 40 years, I don't have a photo ID, but I do have a voter registration card (based on my birth-cetificate) I have always been able to vote (with some degree of harassment) in New Mexico)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 05:06 pm
@High Seas,
Well, isn't that surprising! Somebody has to "request" a recount.
0 Replies
 
BigTexN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 05:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Then you must have "evidence" to show how many illegals are voting.


Both of us will have all the evidence we need...once we start checking IDs.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 05:14 pm
Quote:
Identification Required to Vote
New Mexico voters must provide identification at the polling place in order to vote. Acceptable forms of physical identification include the following:

an original or copy of a current and valid photo identification with or without an address, the address of which is not required to match the voter's certificate of registration or a voter identification card; or
an original or copy of a utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, student identification card or other government document, including identification issued by an Indian nation, tribe or pueblo, that shows the name and address of the person, the address of which is not required to match the voter's certificate of registration.

Acceptable forms of verbal identification include:

a verbal or written statement by the voter of the voter's name, year of birth, and registered address; provided, however, that the statement of the voter's name need not contain the voter's middle initial or suffix.

If a voter fails to provide the required voter identification, the voter shall be allowed to vote on a provisional ballot.
http://www.866ourvote.org/state?id=0043


In pulling this up, I do see that they did get the rule through that first time registrants must also provide photo ID now. That wasn't true long ago. That will probably get rolled back really quick.

However I see that the requirements for photo ID are so lax and there are so many loopholes for what constitutes valid ID that they are almost meaningless. Sigh. Apparently in Dys's precinct they didn't even require that in violation of the law which also does not give me a great deal of confidence in the system.

In our precinct we were asked for and presented photo ID before we voted. In the previous election when we tried to show our voter registration card and/or photo ID they waved us off and said no , no, we shouldn't do that.

Very frustrating.
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 05:29 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Quote:
Identification Required to Vote
New Mexico voters must provide identification at the polling place in order to vote. Acceptable forms of physical identification include the following:

an original or copy of a current and valid photo identification with or without an address, the address of which is not required to match the voter's certificate of registration or a voter identification card; or
an original or copy of a utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, student identification card or other government document, including identification issued by an Indian nation, tribe or pueblo, that shows the name and address of the person, the address of which is not required to match the voter's certificate of registration.

Acceptable forms of verbal identification include:

a verbal or written statement by the voter of the voter's name, year of birth, and registered address; provided, however, that the statement of the voter's name need not contain the voter's middle initial or suffix.

If a voter fails to provide the required voter identification, the voter shall be allowed to vote on a provisional ballot.
http://www.866ourvote.org/state?id=0043


In pulling this up, I do see that they did get the rule through that first time registrants must also provide photo ID now. That wasn't true long ago. That will probably get rolled back really quick.

However I see that the requirements for photo ID are so lax and there are so many loopholes for what constitutes valid ID that they are almost meaningless. Sigh. Apparently in Dys's precinct they didn't even require that in violation of the law which also does not give me a great deal of confidence in the system.

In our precinct we were asked for and presented photo ID before we voted. In the previous election when we tried to show our voter registration card and/or photo ID they waved us off and said no , no, we shouldn't do that.

Very frustrating.
responding to you is like raking kitty litter over that cat ****, it doesn't do an good, but it hides the **** for the time being.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 05:44 pm
@dyslexia,
Then fine Dys. You made it crystal clear years ago that you considered me to be a despicable human being and have quite consistently treated me accordingly. So why do you bother with such an inferior being? When I don't like somebody, I just leave them alone. It works. Try it. I'm glad to see that you're feeling well enough to do whatever it is that you do here though. That is a good thing.
 

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