What should be done about illegal immigration?

@ebrown p,

Regarding Denmark, it is irrelevant whether the Muslims are legal or illegal immigrants. The piece makes it clear that the USA should be very selective regarding who we allow to immigrate here. Also, we should glean that it is important to keep out illegals. Do you really want to admit a group of people who wish to, say, adopt a shariah legal system in the USA, and who believe that their law should prevail relative how they treat their women, etc.?

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@Advocate,

That is my point of view. We can only competently and effectively assimilate a finite number of people into the US culture within a given period. So why not be selective? Why not accept those who want to be Americans, who share our values, who want to learn the language, to be productive and law abiding and part of the existing culture? What does it gain us or them for that matter for them to simply import the place they want to get away from and try to create and live here the same miserable life they left?

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

What does it gain us or them for that matter for them to simply import the place they want to get away from and try to create and live here the same miserable life they left?

Such fundamental ignorance, Foxy. You want to Americanize everyone to ensure that they take on your cultural norms and submit to your ideals, which really aren't all that ideal.

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@JTT,

Some people can't see their own bigotry.

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@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

This perpetual whining and bleating rant of "racism!" on your part is truly tiresome.

Democrats have honed the skill of shouting racist and bigot for a good long time now. It is a finely skilled craft that they possess, and why not, alot of people swallow it, maybe because they are walking around with some kind of guilt complex.

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@okie,

You forget that George, a very good Rep, is always yelling racism. It is not a particularly Dem thing.

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Well, if this information is correct, and you never know with the NY Times, it would appear that Vice President Biden was indeed talking through his hate when he suggested immigration reform was off the table for now.

Quote:

Obama to Push Immigration Bill Despite the Risks
by Julia Preston
April 8, 2009

While acknowledging that the recession makes the political battle more difficult, President Obama plans to begin addressing the country’s immigration system this year, including looking for a path for illegal immigrants to become legal, a senior administration official said on Wednesday.

Mr. Obama will frame the new effort " likely to rouse passions on all sides of the highly divisive issue " as “policy reform that controls immigration and makes it an orderly system,” said the official, Cecilia Muñoz, deputy assistant to the president and director of intergovernmental affairs in the White House.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/us/politics/09immig.html?hp

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@Foxfyre,

That should be talking through his hat, not hate.
Freudian slip?

Actually Biden doesn't seem to be a mean spirited kind of guy though. I think i might be happier with him as President as I think he might be a bit less extreme and not so far left and would err more on the side of caution. But we'll see how it goes.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre - I do hope Biden never becomes President! He's on record as supporting military interventions in ethnic-strife regions, specifically Somalia and Darfur, and regrets we never sent the Marines to prevent the genocide in Rwanda - that last one really convinced me he could be dangerous in the presidency, since Rwanda is inland, though I suppose Marine units could be airdropped.

No matter - armed interventions in ethnic warzones make no sense; waste of blood and treasure for no positive return of any kind. Obama at least seems to have grasped that basic point, though I have serious doubts about his Afghanistan-Pakistan escalation, knowing the area and its history.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Then fine Dys. You made it crystal clear years ago that you considered me to be a despicable human being ........

Well, not exactly what Dys said, Foxfyre - and I doubt he meant even what he did say to you on this page.

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@High Seas,

Well of course you might be right. But President Obama has proved to be a man of ideology more than a man of his word, and, coupled with being a man of action however reckless and ill advised, that in my opinion makes him the more dangerous of the two. Biden has a strong record for lots and lots of words, but not much track record on follow through. But I see his motives for whatever being far more transparent. Or maybe not.

Anyhow, I dread what we might get with any kind of amnesty bill. President Reagan went along with that--perhaps he proposed it, I don't know--back in the 1980's and all it accomplished was to put up a bigger flashing neon sign over America--"Ya'll come and if you get just lay low for a little while, they'll let you stay." And at least Obama doesn't appear to have any more radical ideas about that than Bush 43 did so it could be a wash.

We'll see.

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@High Seas,

I suspect he probably did High Seas. I live here in the same city and there's some history. But if not, oh well. I'm happy he's on the mend regardless.

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Reagan's amnesty was to be the end all. Due to unenforcement, the situation is worse than ever. O's amnesty is another joke, with illegals outside the country thinking they can sneak in and then get on board for the next amnesty. We should kick the bastards out; after all, they jumped in front of the line.

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@Advocate,

Not to intrude on this little friendly discussion you all have got on here-

But there are no "illegals" outside the country...

... unless you are saying that having brown skin makes you an illegal (in which case there would be lots of illegals outside the country).

Oh then... never mind.

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I see it as a sieve. Natural selection speeded up. It selects for the more determined, resourceful and physically fit and from an economic point of view it must be advantageous if the ones who get through are mainly male and mature enough for no expendidure on their childhoods to have been necessary.

And it's the economy-stupid- isn't it? Think of the influx of quality genetic material. On low pay.

I remember Australian immigration being posited on the very same idea.

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@ebrown p,

Okay, if you insist on being literal, I should have said potential illegals.

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@Advocate,

Fine, but we are all potential illegals.

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@cicerone imposter,

c.i. wrote :

Quote:

Re: hamburger (Post 3619893)
Many college graduates are having difficulty finding their first jobs. Those stats are not surprising in the least.

they way i understand the article from the economist , the U.S. is losing valuable young scientists that would be of great benefit to the U.S. economy in the future .
by not facilitating their continued stay/study in the U.S. they will likely be lost to the U.S. forever .

in earlier articles by the economist , they quoted american scientists and corporate leaders that saw a great "brain drain" in this shortsighted policy .
the one example i remember was about microsoft . since they were not able to arrange for work permits/visas for these up-and-coming scientists in silicon valley , they moved a larger part of their research operations just slightly to the north : silicon valley north - british-columbia/canada .
of course , i'm glad those well-paying jobs came so easily to canada .
i am certainly not complaining !
hbg

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@hamburger,

And there is certainly something to that. Even as some are clamoring for us to accommodate more and more unskilled workers or allow those already here to stay here, the quotas for the educated, skilled, and competent remain unchanged or are reduced while our own graduation rates are around 73%, the lowest in the industrialized world. It isn't like we're growing our own brain power much here.

I think we need to adopt and enforce immigration laws more like Canada's. You guys take in mostly people who can and will support themselves and make significant contributions to your economy and technology. We seem to be in reverse of that here.

The problem isn't that people don't want to come here or those from other places that we educate and who want to stay here:

Quote:

Quote:
24 December 2008

This column surveys evidence describing the brain drain from Europe to the US. Europeans living in the US are exceptional " they are more educated, earn higher wages, are more likely to be employed, and more entrepreneurial than their American or European counterparts. Europe's growth prospects may be dramatically reduced by its best and brightest living in the US.

Since 1995, America has grown faster while enjoying lower unemployment than Europe. Adding to Europe's growth angst are worries about aging populations, its inability to adapt to technical change, the burden of its welfare state, and the pains of labour market deregulation. A particular worry is that Europe is losing its most talented workers to the US. Stories of succesfull expatriates in Silicon Valley and top academic departments abound. European politicians and businesses complain that they cannot compete with the US due to taxes and regulations (François-Poncet 1999, Mahroum 1999).
http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/2739

But we are nowhere accommodating as many as want to come:

Quote:
American Brain Drain
November 30, 2007

One myth dogging the immigration debate is that employers are fibbing (or grossly exaggerating) when they claim that hiring foreign professionals is unavoidable because U.S.-born Ph.D.s are hard to come by. But a new report on doctorates from U.S. universities shows they're telling the truth, and then some.

Foreign-born students holding temporary visas received 33% of all research doctorates awarded by U.S. universities in 2006, according to an annual survey by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago. That number has climbed from 25% in 2001. But more to the point of business competitiveness, foreign students comprised 44% of science and engineering doctorates last year.

"China was the country of origin for the largest number of non-U.S. doctorates in 2006," says the report, followed by India, Korea, Taiwan and Canada. "The percentage of doctorates earned by U.S. citizens ranged from lows of 32% in engineering and 47% in physical sciences, to highs of 87% in education and 78% in humanities." Given this reality, is it any wonder that 40% of Ph.D.s working in U.S. science and engineering occupations are foreign-born?

Immigration opponents still claim that the likes of Intel and Oracle merely want to hire Chinese engineers on the cheap. In fact, U.S. law already prohibits companies from paying these foreign nationals less than natives. And all other things being equal, the American job applicant has an advantage because employers are required to pay an additional $4,000-$6,000 in taxes and fees on every H-1B visa holder they hire.

A mere 65,000 H-1B visas for foreign professionals are allocated each year. And this year, as in the previous four, the quota was exhausted almost as soon as the applications became available in April. This effectively means that more than half of all foreign nationals who earned advanced degrees in math and science in 2007 have been shut out of the U.S. job market.

Economic protectionists oppose lifting the visa cap to meet demand. But it makes little sense for our universities to be educating these talented foreign students, only to send them packing after graduation. Current policies have MIT and Stanford educating the next generation of innovators -- and then deporting them to create wealth elsewhere.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119638963734709017.html

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This strikes me as a bit funny (if not odd) from someone who will probably be a front runner in the GOP primary in 2012.

The Hill wrote:

Romney believes that one way to attract more minorities to the GOP is to pass immigration reform before the next election, saying the issue becomes demagogued by both parties on the campaign trail.

“We have a natural affinity with Hispanic-American voters, Asian-American voters,” he said.

Even Republicans are starting realize that there isn't enough bigotry in the US to make anti-immigrant extremism pay politically.

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What should be done about illegal immigration?

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