What should be done about illegal immigration?

cicerone imposter wrote:

From CBS News:

Quote:

Whites Now A Minority In California
Hispanics And Asians Make Major Gains

SACRAMENTO, California, March 30, 2001

well hell, it is california after all. we're kinda different here.

It is cute how O'Moron sets up, and knocks down, a straw man. No one is saying that children should be denied health care.

Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. [...]These sound fine to me.

Keep in mind that O'Moron believes that the USA can easily accomodate a couple billion more people. He thinks we can easily desalinate ocean water.

BS! Only children, the disabled, and the elderly are on welfare.

DC has loads of unemployed blacks. However, the restaurants prefer the illegals, who can be paid less and not given benefits.

OCCOM BILL wrote:

In the mean time I wish you’d reconsider your apparent endorsement of post that calls for state sponsored child neglect and abuse. It doesn’t reflect well on you.

your attitude on this issue is really perplexing. i find it difficult to reconcile it with your professed right wing beliefs about the war in iraq.

when i first joined in the fun on a2k in 2003, you were one of the people that was in all seriousness ending many of your tirades against the anti-war citizens with the right-wing speak of the day; "why do you hate america"?

so, i have to wonder why someone with such "america first" beliefs would act as such a strong advocate for people who's first act upon entering your country is an illegal one.

i guess the real question is; how are you personally benefiting from the presence of illegal immigrants to the point that you are putting your country secondary to your previously stated love of country?

btw, are you still in the restaurant business?

ebrown p wrote:

DTOM, I thought you were classier than this.

you consider it classless to call bullshit when someone has obviously crafted their opinion to jive with what benefits them personally? i'm surprised that you aren't wondering about the guy's bizarre 180 from his previously stated hard right, america first rhetoric. especially considering that you have been so vocal about the iraq war, along with the rest of us, over the years.

Nothing bizarre, no 180, no personal benefit, no bullshit. I still want every Saddam-like ruler exterminated, ASAP. I am not in the restaurant business now, and I wasn’t in the restaurant business when the conversations you’re twisting took place (hell, I wasn’t in the restaurant business 2 years total, you twit.) You owe me an apology for this uncalled for personal attack.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

and that is why you call anyone who believes that, while immigrants are a welcome and important part of the american landscape, they should enter the country through legal means, a racist ? a bigot? a discompassionate monster?

Ebrown doesn’t do that. Neither do I. Those who post or endorse the posting of slanted, bigoted bullshit, however, are fair game. Calls to stop feeding and giving medical care to indigent children constitute bigoted bullshit. How can you possibly disagree?

Defending a white supremacist. It really can't get much clearer, can it.

Defending a white supremacist. It really can't get much clearer, can it.

Defending a white supremacist. It really can't get much clearer, can it.

Sorry if some of you think that is so offensive

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:

In the mean time I wish you’d reconsider your apparent endorsement of post that calls for state sponsored child neglect and abuse. It doesn’t reflect well on you.

your attitude on this issue is really perplexing. i find it difficult to reconcile it with your professed right wing beliefs about the war in iraq.

when i first joined in the fun on a2k in 2003, you were one of the people that was in all seriousness ending many of your tirades against the anti-war citizens with the right-wing speak of the day; "why do you hate america"?

The only time I've ever asked anyone why the hated America; was if they said they did... or they habitually made and/or repeated assertions that always seemed to pain the United States in the worst possible light...

which i have not done here, or irl. so you either misunderstood what i did say, or assumed that i hated america.

I have professed no right wing beliefs about the war in Iraq. I supported the war because I believed people, both inside and outside of Iraq, would be better off for it. I support the dissolution of border control for the same reason; people will be better off.

it looked to me as if you were. at that time, it wasn't the anti-war folks asking the question, "why do you hate america?"

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

so, i have to wonder why someone with such "america first" beliefs would act as such a strong advocate for people who's first act upon entering your country is an illegal one.

I am no hypocrite, and know damn well if my family was suffering on the other side of that border, and that I could ease their suffering by crossing it, I wouldn't hesitate to do so. I feel very lucky for being born in the United States, but I don't feel superior for it. Nor am I so incompetent, or too cowardly, to face additional competition in the work place. I don't need my government to step on another man's neck to compete.

i understand the motivations. and i feel for those who are caught up in all of this ****. they aren't the people that i hold responsible for the mess. i'd most likely do the same thing too. but all the empathy in the world isn't going to correct the problem.

and the problem is simply the question of legalities. the accusations of racism and bigotry may be valid in the cases of some, but certainly not of all, or even most who feel that there are right ways and wrong ways to do things. and i can say from personal experience that the only way anarchy works well is when it's an interesting logo on a tee shirt.

i would have been fine with the mccain-feingold thingy. even though i'm a little sceptical that the government would do it any better after the '86 amnesty.

and lastly, since i've been self employed for a decade, i took responsibility for putting food on my family ( ) a long time ago. so no snarky comments about standing on someone else's neck should be directed my way.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

i guess the real question is; how are you personally benefiting from the presence of illegal immigrants to the point that you are putting your country secondary to your previously stated love of country?

As Ebrown pointed out; this line of argument is pathetic. I happen to believe (am quite certain in fact) that our country is a better place because of immigration. Since 99% of are the descendants of immigrants; I'm awefully glad yester-year's bigots were no more successful than the bigots of today.

once again you fail to grasp that the debate is not about immigration and immigrants, but rather the way that they have entered the country. what's annoying is that many insist on conflating the two separate values. i guess you are one of them.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

btw, are you still in the restaurant business?

Not for a couple years now. I employ no one; and don't make a nickel off of anything even remotely related to this issue. Do you know what happens when you assume? You make a complete and utter ass of yourself. Here; I’ll prove it to you:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

ebrown p wrote:

DTOM, I thought you were classier than this.

you consider it classless to call bullshit when someone has obviously crafted their opinion to jive with what benefits them personally? i'm surprised that you aren't wondering about the guy's bizarre 180 from his previously stated hard right, america first rhetoric. especially considering that you have been so vocal about the iraq war, along with the rest of us, over the years.

Nothing bizarre, no 180, no personal benefit, no bullshit. I still want every Saddam-like ruler exterminated, ASAP. I am not in the restaurant business now, and I wasn’t in the restaurant business when the conversations you’re twisting took place (hell, I wasn’t in the restaurant business 2 years total, you twit.) You owe me an apology for this uncalled for personal attack.

and yet you have no qualms about assuming that i endorse cruel treatment of children. that i'm a racist and a bigot?

so now you are 0 for 2; you assumed that i "hate america" and you assumed that i am a "bigot and a racist". wrong on both counts.

now, about the restaurant question; 1) i remembered that you were in the business, that you mentioned moving to open a new restaurant.

i asked if you still were in that business. it's a valid question in the context that i asked it in.

and if you consider asking a question a personal attack, it is you, bill, who is acting a twit.

but if you say you're not, i take it as truth and withdraw the question.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

and that is why you call anyone who believes that, **while immigrants are a welcome and important part of the american landscape, they should enter the country through legal means, a racist ? a bigot? a discompassionate monster?

Ebrown doesn’t do that. Neither do I. Those who post or endorse the posting of slanted, bigoted bullshit, however, are fair game. Calls to stop feeding and giving medical care to indigent children constitute bigoted bullshit. How can you possibly disagree?

**what part of this do you not get, bill? if you've been paying attention to anything i've said, you'd realize that this is my position in a nutshell. nothing more, nothing less.

if the things you list are what you use to identify bigotry and racism, then you shouldn't even suggest that i'm a bigot or a racist. as you say, when you assume...

or maybe it hasn't occured to you that labeling someone a racist/bigot, even if only through inference, when it is untrue is a personal attack?

ehBeth wrote:

Defending a white supremacist. It really can't get much clearer, can it.

Where is your evidence that Kevin Lamb is a white supremacist? Where is your evidence that the Occidental Quarterly is a white supremacist magazine?

"TOQ: The Occidental Quarterly is especially concerned with cultivat-
ing young nationalists. ... "

From the Editor
2009: Year of Crisis
Michael O’Meara

"Prepare to fight to the finish, or your kind will vanish."

In the last year, one crisis has followed another. First there was a housing mortgage crisis, then a liquidity crisis that led to a banking crisis, then a dollar crisis, then a credit crisis, then a geopolitical crisis, then an energy crisis, then a crisis of consumer confidence, and finally a political crisis at the highest level of the state, involving a crisis of meaning that brought a negro to power"a negro symbolizing everything against which the American once defined himself, and thus symbolizing a transvaluation of the very basis of the American's original being.

The burning question today is: are these cascading crises "conjunctural" (i.e., due to a combination of circumstances) or are they "structural" (inherent to the system's nature)? If the latter, then the "American System," which has governed the world since 1945 and which has programmed the end of European man, faces a potentially systemic rupture whose implications are catastrophic. If only conjunctural, the news is still good, for it cannot but highlight the system's anti-white nature, of which most white Americans are still clueless.

I thought American history showed that the immigrants shoved the ones in residence to one side and marginalised them.

Is that not right?