What should be done about illegal immigration?

OE writes


So do I but the principle remains the same. You either believe there is a purpose in having the law and it should be enforced or you don't.

And while a tiny percentage of illegals crossing the border commit murder, it does happen. Also a minority of the illegals but a larger percentage commit other crimes: illegal drug trafficking, driving under the influence, burglary, theft, assault, battery, vandalism being the most common. Non citizens here legally rarely commit such crimes, and the fact that citizens commit such crimes does not change the fact that criminal activity is exacerbated by some of those coming into the country illegally. A disproportionate percentage of the jail and prison population is made up of illegals, and law enforcement and social services are unnecessarily strained as a result. (No Ebrown, I won't hunt up the statistics on that and post them again. They are posted earlier in this thread.)

And that doesn't even include the depressed wages in labor intensive activities when large numbers of illegals are present which affects what would otherwise be market driven supply and demand.

It is as naive to assume that all illegals are good and honest folks who just want to escape poverty and feed their families as it is to assume that all illegals are bad people.

And it is as stupid to want to base law and policy on the fact that there are nice, wonderful, good people that come here illegally just as it would be stupid to base laws for citizens on the fact that most citizens are good, honest, hard working people.

I am made ill by this desperate attempt to link crime rates with the presence of hard-working illegals.
I read that the sheriff of Maricopa county in Arizona is claiming that the crime (perhaps he said murder) rate has declined since the exodus of workers back to their home countries. He seems to overlook the fact that any reduction in population will be reflected in various--including crime--rates. For the crime rate to remain as it was before the exodus that would require an INCREASE in crime among American citizens.

Nobody is attempting, desperately or otherwise, to link crime rates with the presence of hard-working illegals. Those of us who think with our heads instead of fuzzy emotions, however, are willing to recognize that all persons in this country illegally are not hard working, and an unacceptable percentage of them are commiting serious crime.

It would be a legitimate debate as to whether the criminal activity and artificially lowered wages and contempt for the law are an acceptable price to pay in the name of compassion, of course.

I could imagine that most of the criminal activity ("illegal immigration") would be nullified then. And those artificially lowered wages would be minimum wages at least ...

You're going to have to explain that more clearly and in detail, Walter, for what you intended to say probably makes more sense that what you said.

I've been three steps in advance with my thoughts. Sorry.

Foxfyre says that "all persons in this country illegally are not hard working, and an unacceptablel percentage of them are commiting serious crime[s]." I suspect he meant to say 'not all illegals are hard working,' a much softer statement. And an "unacceptable percentage" could be one %.

On the other hand: what's "an acceptable percentage" of population to commit serious crimes?

Foxfyre is a 'she', JL, - but I think, she meant what she wrote.

In other words, we must compare the crimes committed by legal citizens of our country vs illegals, and also compare their work habits. How about their height and weight?

You don't really want to get the "illegal status", c.i., don't you? (On the other hand - you might have gained weight on your last cruises.)

Thanks Walter
and sorry m'lady.

I don't know if Bill is a moron - he does appear to show laughable inconsistency though, in making grandiose claims about being "against slavery" (does he know anyone in favor???) when the nearest equivalent to slavery we have in the West is "human trafficking".

Most of those illegal aliens in Western countries arrived as "human cargo"; they paid considerable sums to "human cargo" smugglers in order to get transported - by truck, ship, even on foot - to their destinations. Needless to add, tragedies during that "transportation" process abound. Anyone with the least interest in the subject knows this.

Thanks JLN. Yes, you did interpret my intent correctly except for the percentage of crime and thank you for pointing that out. I wish there was some way to insert focal inflection into the written word.

Despite the numbnuts who still (dishonestly) want to paint me with a hard heart or as a bigot, what I have said previously and still believe is that most illegals who come here are coming for work they can't find where they are. Such illegals are basically good people with good hearts and good work ethics and they have no desire or intent to harm anybody. That is why I support a streamlined and efficient system by which people can come legally and safely here to work when there are jobs to be filled.

But not all illegals fall into that category. Some aren't interested in lawful work to support themselves. It is only a relatively small percentage, but nevertheless a large enough number to make a noticeable difference, who bring with them a propensity for drunken driving, drug trafficking, brawling, assault, battery, murder, rape, burglary, theft, vandalism, animal cruelty, and/or other crimes among which is possibly the intent to commit terrorism. According to my current Congressperson, in New Mexico alone, about 30% of the prison population would be reduced if you take all the illegals out of it. (That was in response to somebody who claimed 50% of our prison population is made up of illegals.) And not only is there a high cost to the victims of crimes, but the taxpayer foots the burden to arrest, defend, try, convict, and incarcerate the criminals.

1% probably would not be seen as a serious problem except to the immediate victims. 12% to 30% or more is a serious problem. I think the reason the numbers might be so high is that it is 'safer' and more pleasant to get caught committing crime in the USA than it is in most of the countries the illegals come from.

I think we need to make it much more attractive and efficient to be here legally and much less attractive and in fact unappealing to be here illegally. That way we are much more likely to get the decent, honorable, and productive among those who come to the USA.

If there's a moron here; it would be the idiot who repeatedly denies the existence of simple, verifiable fact (Advocate). He's among my personal trolls, and just loves to trot out that same exaggerated version of a point I made years ago, and somehow manages to remain oblivious to the repeatedly demonstrated FACT that even his feeble argument against his exaggerated version is verifiably unsound.

I made no such claim, and no rational person would interpret what I wrote that way (take heed of how easily it was accurately interpreted by O.E.).Deliberately missing the point is a sorry substitute for reasoned discourse. The parallel I drew was just another example of blame shifting. Here’s another:

A. Woman is brutally raped and killed by a group of heinous A-holes.
B. Some idiot claims she wouldn't have been, if other women weren't allowed to wear sexy clothes, thereby somehow provoking the animalistic response from the heinous A-holes.

Where should we assign the blame for this heinous hate crime? Women in general... for wearing sexy clothes? Or directly on the heinous A-holes who committed the crime?

The heinous A-holes in your example are wholly responsible for their hate crime. No rational person can believe that illegal border crossers are in any way responsible for that crime. Your implication is flat out friggin ridiculous and you should simply admit as much and retract it, instead of further feigning an inability to reason. Unless, of course, you like looking like a fool…

I think that O'Moron is a bit of a hypocrite relative to slavery. I gather he has a restaurant, and it is probably very important for him to have a ready supply of cheap (slave wages) illegal-alien labor for it. It is not enough for him that the USA allows more legal immigration than any other country (including Mexico). He is in favor of hordes of illegals coming to the USA.

Your gathering is on par with your usual fact finding. I no longer own restaurants, and currently employ no one, let alone "illegals." I can tell you when I did own restaurants; Hispanics tended to earn more than white folks, because pay was commensurate with ability and job performance and in my admittedly anecdotal experience; Hispanics tended to be better overall employees.

What I favor is that human beings not be restricted from moving around or finding work in attempts to better their own lot in life. Unlike you; I recognize the simple truth that I need not have less in order for someone else to have more.

Advocate,

Do you have any idea of what slavery meant in this country?

Comparing employees (even illegal employees) in a restaurant to slavery is idiotic to the point of offensive-- particularly since your solution is to send them all back to their countries.

That you posted this on Martin Luther King day is a nice touch.

I spoke about "slave wages," which is not about slavery. You are, of course, always ready with your cheap (and stupid) shot. I am a bit surprised (not really) that you didn't make note of O'Moron's racist statement that Hispanics make better employees.

Don't upset yourself ebrown. It seems some people on these threads do not know the definition of "slavery."

It will be most interesting to see just how President Obama tries to finesse the
immigration question. President Obama, is, of course, one of the most
brilliant and charismatic leaders in the world, but it will be difficult.

The Democratic Party is happy to buy and pile up future votes by allowing more
Hispanics into the country who, if allowed by the Democrats, will become citizens. The Democrats and Obama do, of course, owe their elections to large
turnouts by Hispanics.

However, the rising unemployment rate will assure even more rancor from those who feel that Hispanics have taken jobs which belong to citizens.

This will be fun to watch.

Occom Bill's comment about Hispanics working harder than whites falls in the same category as the crap about African-Americans being lazy.