What should be done about illegal immigration?

@genoves,

genoves wrote:

Occom Bill's comment about Hispanics working harder than whites falls in the same category as the crap about African-Americans being lazy.

Occom Bill made no such comment. I did say “when I did own restaurants; Hispanics tended to earn more than white folks, because pay was commensurate with ability and job performance and in my admittedly anecdotal experience; Hispanics tended to be better overall employees.” Where did I lose you? My restaurants? The word tended? Commensurate with ability and job performance? Anecdotal experience?

Do not attempt to taint me with your own racism.

genoves wrote:

However, the rising unemployment rate will assure even more rancor from those who feel that Hispanics have taken jobs which belong to citizens.

Bigots may think that, but most of us realize those designations are not mutually exclusive.

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@genoves,

Obama does need to finesse the immigration question, he is quite public with his plan.

Quote:

IMMIGRATION

"The time to fix our broken immigration system is now… We need stronger enforcement on the border and at the workplace… But for reform to work, we also must respond to what pulls people to America… Where we can reunite families, we should. Where we can bring in more foreign-born workers with the skills our economy needs, we should."

-- Barack Obama, Statement on U.S. Senate Floor
May 23, 2007

For too long, politicians in Washington have exploited the immigration issue to divide the nation rather than find real solutions. Our broken immigration system can only be fixed by putting politics aside and offering a complete solution that secures our border, enforces our laws, and reaffirms our heritage as a nation of immigrants.

Create Secure Borders: Protect the integrity of our borders. Support additional personnel, infrastructure and technology on the border and at our ports of entry.

Improve Our Immigration System: Fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and increase the number of legal immigrants to keep families together and meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.

Remove Incentives to Enter Illegally: Remove incentives to enter the country illegally by cracking down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants.

Bring People Out of the Shadows: Support a system that allows undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.

Work with Mexico: Promote economic development in Mexico to decrease illegal immigration.

Source: www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/immigration

1 Reply

The stereotypical statement by O'Moron (I refer to him as such because he regularly calls me and others bigots for opposing illegal immigration) that Hispanics tend to be better employees IS racist. It is similar to a statement that the Poles tend to be dumber.

It is hard to believe that he and so many others have no problem with this country being flooded with illegals, adversely affecting our economy, ecology, race relations, traffic, resources, etc.

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@Advocate,

Quote:

The stereotypical statement by O'Moron (I refer to him as such because he regularly calls me and others bigots for opposing illegal immigration)

He calls you a bigot because you say bigoted things. The fact you "oppose illegal immigration" is irrelevant to the question of whether you are a bigot or not.

Even you should be able to understand that.

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@ebrown p,

What is this mystical "complete solution" referred to by President Obama?
As long as residents of this country note the continued presence of illegals who they feel are taking jobs away from them in an economic downturn which threatens to worsen, the "complete solution" is a flim-flam, designed to attract voters.

When Obama talked about "inclusion". he apparently left out the unemployed who are impacted by the competition with illegals who will work for lower wages.

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@genoves,

genoves wrote:

Quote:

However, the rising unemployment rate will assure even more rancor from those who feel that Hispanics have taken jobs which belong to citizens.

It will assure more rancor, but the fact of the matter is, most "legal" Americans are unwilling to wash dishes, serve customers at restaurants, and harvest our fields.

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

Oh, pray tell, what bigoted statements did I make? BTW, your unwarranted lies and accusations against Israel are truly bigoted.

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@cicerone imposter,

Most "legal" Americans are unwilling to wash dishes, serve customers at restaurants and harvest our fields--Says Cicerone Imposter.

Haven't you been paying attention? President Obama wants billions and billions of dollars to prevent another DEPRESSION al la 1931-32-33-34-35-36-37-38.

Anyone that has a family and no job for a year will be HAPPY to wash dishes, serve customers at restaurants, and harvest our fields.

You don't seem to know very much about the menial jobs that even educated people took during the GREAT depression. Look it up.

But, if President Obama is wrong about the upcoming unemployment disaster,then there is nothing to worry about, is there?

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@genoves,

LOL, All my siblings and I did work on farms in our youth - with Hispanics and blacks. Rarely, if ever, did we see white folks. We have lived in California for most of our lives, and most of the farms are still being tended by Hispanics (the greatest majority). That's also true of most of the restaurants in our neighborhood in Silicon Valley. We have many varieties of cultural restaurants here, and most have Hispanics working in them.

Yup, don't know much about the work habits about my environment. You are all wisdom, sir.

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When I was a kid growing up, a LOT of ordinary citizens were picking cotton, washing dishes in cafes, stocking store shelves in stores, chopping wood, cleaning out outhouses, and doing whatever work they could get to support themselves and their families. Even the homeless--we called them hobos--did not expect handouts for free but all were willing to work for a hot meal and/or a night in the woodshed out of the rain.

Following the more recent raids on the meat packing plants in Nebraska and expulsion of the illegals working there, those plants were in a world of hurt for labor. What did they do? They substantially increased the hourly wage, advertised for help, and had many multiples of applications for each job to be filled. Yes, we all probably pay a few cents a pound or so more for our hamburger or T-bone steaks now, but it is American citizens now holding those jobs, ALL the employees in the plants benefitted as have the communities in which those plants reside, and the State of Nebraska, and ultimately all of us. None of that would have happened if the illegals willing to work for artificiallylow wages had been left alone.

The law of supply and demand is not just a nice sounding platitude. If the demand for labor is higher than available labor, the price of labor goes up. If you value a lower price on that T-bone than you value people being able to honorably earn a living wage, then you approve of artificially low wages generated by illegals. Otherwise, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to appreciate that people who need work will work at just about anything if you make that more attractive than not working.

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@cicerone imposter,

You don't know very much about Appalachia or the Middle West, do you, Cicerone Impester?

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@genoves,

No, I don't; never lived there. However, I did live in Chicago several times during my long life, but lived in Naperville during my last residence there. Have visited Chicago several times since then to meet up with other a2kers, but didn't see "slave" laborers in restaurants - nor could determine such from one visit to various properties. They seemed to have more diversity of employees from the quick hot dog stand to the upscale restaurants.

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@cicerone imposter,

Why don't you re-read foxfyre's post again, Cicerone Imposter? You are probably very affluent. You are Asian, are you not? Asians are at the top of the scale when households are measured for income by race.

Foxfyre said it clearly--People will do any kind of work when they are out of a job, have no more Unemployment Compensation and need to feed their families.

If you don't realize that, you are living in Utopia.

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@genoves,

Genoves.... I could argue with your simplistic economic points. My argument would question the idea that removing millions workers from the economy is a good thing at all. I would also point out that the prominent economists who are responsible to get out of this mess don't see kicking out immigrants as a solution.

But this is not an interesting argument until you answer this question...

If we were in a good economy with a low unemployment rate, would you support a compassionate immigration plan that included a path to citizenship?

If the answer is no, then your economic argument isn't the REAL reason you are against a path to citizenship, is it.

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@genoves,

Fox? The poster who changes her opinion from one post the next? You gotta be kidding!

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@cicerone imposter,

No s/he isn't kidding. S/he does seem to be accurately recognizing that you don't appear to read and you seem to insult people without being able to back up a single insult with anything other than your enjoyment of insulting and/or hurting people.

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

.............. The fact you "oppose illegal immigration" is irrelevant to the question of whether you are a bigot or not.

At last, some grasp of the term "illegal" has dawned! And anyone who has even casually worried about data security (not to mention security of persons and property) knows illegal activities are often linked:

Quote:

In the US, the Castorena Family Organisation
(CFO) is a large-scale crime syndicate that
operates from Mexico with local hubs in ten US
cities. It specialises in forged documents such as
passports, birth certificates, work permits,
marriage certificates and driving licenses. When
US authorities raided CFO facilities in Los Angeles
in the late 1990s, they seized documents with a
street value of US$20m.

The source may not appear on your screens as it's a proprietary database, but I'm posting it anyway in case you can access it via some search engine:
http://viewswire.eiu.com/report_dl.asp?mode=fi&fi=462768231.PDF

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

It's not necessary to repeat what other posters have shown concerning your contradictions; it's evidence enough for most people - including me. LOL

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

It seems some people on these threads do not know the definition of "slavery."

Starting with you, possibly, Cicerone! "Indentured servitude" is the later definition of slavery, involving impossible debts effectively leading to a life sentence to forced labor, and happens every day to victims of human trafficking (aka illegal residents). From the source linked above:

Quote:

Aside from the national-security implications,
document forgery is also a form of organised crime
frequently associated with the illegal trade of
smuggling and trafficking human beings. Amnesty
International estimates that 4m people are
smuggled or trafficked across international
borders each year.12 Forged documents often play
a role in one stage of the process.
The distinction between smuggling and
trafficking is whether or not the individual has
chosen to embark on the journey. Tragically, this
distinction is often immaterial; regardless of how
the journey starts, it often ends in exploitation
and suffering for the victims. Crime rings trap their
charges with insurmountable debts, violence and
intimidation to force them into working in
dangerous, unregulated conditions or within the
sex industry. One well-known horror story is the
death of 23 Chinese cockle-pickers who drowned in
February 2004 after being abandoned by their
gang-masters on UK mudflats as the tide rushed in
around them. They were being paid just US$2 for
nine hours’ hard labour.

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@High Seas,

Oh gosh yes. I don't know if this particular organization was involved then, but when I was struggling to collect the required stuff to verify American citizenship so I could hire people in the late 1970's, we became quite aware of a thriving cottage industry forging phony documents for the illegals.

More recently when working work comp claims, they don't even bother to get any documents when such aren't required. They steal a social security number or simply make one up, and generally are moving from job to job so frequently that the authorities never catch on or at least catch up with them.

I have worked claims for illegals who used numerous different names and spellings on medical records going back for years--phony or incomplete addresses or really really vague ones--different ages and birthdates and next of kin shown each time--and multiple social security numbers. Nobody batted an eye and we paid the claims. Several were paid to guys who were incarcerated in the county jail or state pen on various convictions.

It's a scary situation if you think about it much.

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What should be done about illegal immigration?

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