What should be done about illegal immigration?

Well I'm not sure what you mean by "visiting", and I did not say or mean to imply that the number of immigrants here exceeds the native population. Rather my meaning was that the number of immigrants, both legal and illegal, here is larger relative to the native population than in most European countries. Given the history of colonialism, particularly by Britain, France, and Holland, the definition of just what constitutes an immigrant is subject to some considerable debate and uncertainty. In addition the EU and its related treaties have created an altogether new situation relative to movement by people within the union. However, overall, in terms of their relative numbers, net immigration to the United States is a good deal larger than net immigration to the EU.

France may well, by some definition of immigrants, be an exception.

Managing and assimilating immigrants is a problem for both the United States and European countries. The problem in the U.S. is much more one of managing the process (something we have done badly), and much less one of assilmilating those that arrive (something Europe struggles with).

Thanks for clarifying.


Of the 474 million citizens and legal foreign residents of the EU/EEA and Switzerland, some 42 million were born outside their European country of residence. In absolute terms, Germany had by far the largest foreign-born population (10.1 million), followed by France (6.4 million), the UK (5.8 million), Spain (4.8 million), Italy (2.5 million), Switzerland (1.7 million), and the Netherlands (1.6 million). [2005/6 data]

More here

Interesting article. It might also be interesting to learn what fraction of the "foreign born" populations in each country came from other EU countries, and what came from outside the EU.

That's interesting, Walter! It means the foreign-born share of the population is almost the same in Germany and America, ca. 12%. It even is slightly higher in Germany than in America. I just learned something, thanks!

Why?

What's your source for the percentage? From what I have read the illegal population alone here amounts to about 7% of the total.

georgeob, According to most news sources about illegal immigrants in the US, it's about 2.5 percent. Where did you get 7 percent?

US census. The figures in my quote didn't include any ikkegal population - how do you count 'illegals'? (Figures for Germany vary, something about 3 million, I suppose.)

My source for the American percentage is the Census Bureau's Current Population Survey. Here's a link (PDF) to the table.

USA>Society & Culture
from the May 16, 2006 edition

Illegal immigrants in the US: How many are there?


Nailing down such figures is impossible. Even settling on a ballpark figure is difficult given the official sources: the US Census, apprehensions along the US-Mexico border, and social service agencies. For one thing, illegal immigrants avoid responding to census questionnaires, states a 2005 report by Bear Stearns Asset Management Inc. in New York.

Based on the national census in 2000, the US Census Bureau puts the estimate of illegal immigrants at 8.7 million. As of 2003, the US Citizenship and Immigration Services put the number at 7 million. Since then, United States immigration officials have said the number has grown by as much as 500,000 a year.

Those closest to the fight to protect US borders say the figure is higher. The US Border Patrol union Local 2544 in Tucson, Ariz., says the total number of illegal immigrants in the US today is between 12 million and 15 million.

The Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research organization in Washington, estimates 11.5 million to 12 million "unauthorized migrants" live in the US today. It bases its numbers on the "Current Population Survey," a monthly assessment of about 50,000 households jointly conducted by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau.

According to UN-figures (source: Die Zeit, 08.03.07): 30-40 million illegal immigrants worldwide. Out of that 6 million in the EU, 1.5 million in Germany.

My above higher number is an estimate by unofficial police sources.

Last year, the Congressional Budget Office released a study, Immigration Policy in the United States (PDF file here). It cites the Census Bureau and the INS as estimating the number of unauthorized foreigners at 7 million, or 2.5 percent. Perhaps George confused seven percent with seven million? I make that kind of mistake all the time.

Makes sense. Thanks, Thomas.

Thanks for the ready made excuse. Sadly I was just dead wrong.

I guess not all the illegalsl are hard working and honest. I pity the citizens of CA in particular.


Monday, March 27, 2006 11:39 a.m. EST
Justice Dept. Figures on Incarcerated Illegals

One of the more popular claims by illegal immigration proponents is that those who enter the U.S. by breaking the law are invariably "hard-working" and "law-abiding" once they get here.

That argument, however, has one major flaw. According to Justice Department statistics and the analysis of immigration experts, the "law-abiding" claim often isn't true.

As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:

"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."


Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: "Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population."

Former California Gov. Pete Wilson places the percentage of illegal aliens in U.S. prisons even higher. In 2001, he told Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly:

"We had problems related to the costs of educating children who were acknowledged to be in the country illegally, healthcare costs. One in five in our prison population were illegal immigrants who had been convicted of a felony after entering the country illegally."

The Federation for American Immigration Reform also turned to the Justice Department to get statistics on criminal aliens. They report:

"In March 2000, Congress made public Department of Justice statistics showing that, over the previous five years, the INS had released over 35,000 criminal aliens instead of deporting them. Over 11,000 of those released went on to commit serious crimes, over 1,800 of which were violent ones [including 98 homicides, 142 sexual assaults, and 44 kidnappings].

"In 2001, thanks to a decision by the Supreme Court, the INS was forced to release into our society over 3,000 criminal aliens [who collectively had been convicted of 125 homicides, 387 sex offenses, and 772 assault charges]."

Up to a third of the U.S. federal prison population is composed of non-citizens, according to Federal Bureau of Prisons statistics - but not all non-citizen prison inmates are illegal aliens.

As to the "hard-working" claim, CIS notes: "The proportion of immigrant-headed households using at least one major welfare program is 24.5 percent compared to 16.3 percent for native households."

Investor's Business Daily concurs: "Once [illegals] get here, they are 50 percent more likely to be on welfare than citizens."

I guess that not all legals are hard working and honest. Especially, when I look at the number of imprisoned US-citizens.

Good comeback, Walter. The US has the most in our prisons and jails of any developed country; and that's just a guess. It costs taxpayers over $30,000 a year for each prisoner. We really know how to spend our money - foolishly!

Correct! We want more from our immigrants, and the legal ones are probably honest and hardworking for the most part.

Then lets save some of that money and execute those on death row.