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What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 07:41 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
What's civics?


Our education system is in bad shape, alright. You would have learned in high school what the executive branch is supposed to do, vs the legislative branch. Three branches of government, imposter, go back and learn what they are supposed to do.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 08:19 pm
Naw, it's a waste of my time - especially since our government doesn't follow the bidding of who they are supposed to represent, the people, and that includes the executive and congress.

You're so smart, how about providing a quick summary? High school? Hell, I barely graduated.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 09:54 pm
The legislative branch makes laws, imposter, and the executive branch is supposed to enforce them. It isn't the job of Congress to enforce laws. Of course it helps if they make sensible laws and laws that can reasonably be enforced.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 09:57 pm
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...... the executive branch enforces laws...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ......they're only good at breaking laws, domestic and international.

Okay, tell me more silly stuff.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 10:06 pm
I'm glad I can make you laugh, imposter. Add a few more ha ha's.

Actually, you may be onto something. If Congress had to enforce their own laws, maybe they would quit making more and more stupid ones.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 05:54 am
okie wrote:
The legislative branch makes laws, imposter, and the executive branch is supposed to enforce them. It isn't the job of Congress to enforce laws. Of course it helps if they make sensible laws and laws that can reasonably be enforced.


Yet it is the Legislative Branch that supplies funding for Federal enforcement programs, to which they provide little funding relative to immigration.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2007 06:55 pm
Border crackdown working, numbers show By TRACI CARL, Associated Press Writer
Sat Aug 11, 2:23 PM ET



Mexican shelters, usually the last stop for northbound migrants, are filling with southbound deportees. Fewer migrants are crossing in the wind-swept deserts along an increasingly fortified border. Far to the north, fields are empty at harvest time as workplace raids become more common.

Mexicans are increasingly giving up on the American dream and staying home, and the federal crackdown on undocumented workers announced Friday should discourage even potential migrants from taking the risks as the United States purges itself of its illegal population.

U.S. border agents detained 55,545 illegal migrants jumping over border walls, walking through the desert and swimming across the Rio Grande River between October and June. That's down 38 percent for the entire border compared to the same period a year before.

U.S. and Mexican officials say increased border security, including 6,000 National Guard troops, remote surveillance technology and drone planes, have thwarted smugglers who had succeeded for years at beating the system.

Migrants also say they feel Americans are increasingly hostile toward immigrants.

"It's the discrimination," said 28-year-old George Guevara, who was deported to Tijuana last month after living in the U.S. for 18 years. "It's making people step back. It's just too much of a risk. It's better to be out here."

Guevara, who speaks perfect English and has only distant memories of Mexico, was living at a Tijuana migrant shelter filled with deportees, many of whom are Mexican-born but find themselves in a country that is foreign to them.

"I barely remember living here," Guevara said. "But I see this as an opportunity. I'm going to go back to Guadalajara to see my family and forget what happened."

While some migrants try to set up new lives, others are caught between two worlds. Salvador Perez still has a pregnant wife and three small children in Bakersfield, Calif., where he worked on a pistachio ranch before he was deported. He's tried to cross the rocky, snake-infested mountains near Tecate three times this summer to get back to them, but failed each time.

"I want to try again, but I'm scared something will happen," Perez said.

The biggest drop in Border Patrol detentions ?- a 68 percent decrease ?- was in the remote, heat-seared desert surrounding Yuma, Ariz., once popular with smugglers. Border Patrol spokesman Jeremy Chappell credits the additional troops and tougher security.

"Where an alien before was able to sneak across, now he has the National Guard watching him," Chappell said.

The only area that has seen an increase ?- 1.5 percent ?- is the San Diego sector, which runs along the California border and includes the harsh, roadless desert surrounding Tecate. The Border Patrol has responded with helicopters and increased intelligence from detained migrants.

Crossing there requires hiking up to six miles, scrambling over or under the border fence, then walking some more, usually in the dead of night. The region is difficult to patrol, making it one of the few places migrants believe they can still get through.

That's why 22-year-old Romeo, a Salvadoran who refused to give his last name for fear of reprisals, was in Tecate's town square after failing twice to sneak into El Paso, Texas, once in a car and once on foot. He was flown back to El Salvador each time.

"They tell me this is the best place to cross, but it isn't easy anywhere," Romeo said.

Deportations also are up for illegal immigrants who have lived in the States for years. Some are caught for minor infractions like a burned-out headlight. Others are rounded up in workplace raids that the Bush administration has vowed to intensify.

The new measures announced Friday will force employers to fire anyone who cannot prove their Social Security numbers are legitimate.

U.S. employers are already complaining, especially those in agriculture, where most workers are believed to be working with false documents. On a recent visit to Mexico, Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire said some crops are already rotting in the fields for lack of workers.

Many employers join President Bush in blaming Congress for stalling an accord that would allow more people to work legally.

"Pretty shortly people are going to be knocking on people's doors saying `Man we're running out of workers,'" Bush said.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon also lashed out Thursday. "The U.S. Congress, which today turns its back on reality, knows full well that the American economy could not move forward without the labor of Mexicans," he said.

Fewer Mexicans are sending home cash remittances ?- Mexico's biggest source of foreign income after oil ?- leaving many Mexican relatives with no other resources, the Inter-American Development Bank reported Wednesday.

Despite all this, some migrants are still trying to beat the odds.

Isaac Mendiola, 41, mapped out how he would cross near Tecate.

"We start walking about 7 p.m., hit the Golden Casino on Highway 8 by 4 a.m.," Mendiola explained. "Then we call this Indian guy from the reservation, and pay him $200 to take us to Oceanside, Calif. An American lady gets us past the checkpoint for another $200. Then we take public buses to Disneyland, and we are in L.A."

Still, even Mendiola wants to work in construction for only two more years, then return to Mexico to run a convenience store his family has opened with the money earned up north.

"Crossing is getting a lot harder now," he said. "You gotta stop sometime. This year and next, and boom, I'm done."

_____

Border Patrol: http://www.cbp.gov/
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2007 07:07 pm
The economy will feel it soon too.

Hey, what happened to Foxyfire? Her last post was in May 26th.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2007 07:15 pm
The farmers all across America, and our restaurants in our area are going to be short of laborers.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2007 07:27 pm
You have repeatedly claimed that unemployment is alot higher than the figures show? You have claimed they are wrong because your math shows more people are needing jobs out of college and so forth than job growth figures show? Now you are claiming we have a shortage in the labor pool. Which is it?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2007 08:06 pm
okie, You are too dumb to understand.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Aug, 2007 09:52 pm
I can predict how you explain away your contradiction, imposter. In fact, I think you have tried the arguments on me already in the past, but I would like you to explain it to everyone else. Just how is there a labor shortage if unemployment is alot worse than the numbers show?

I happen to think that perhaps the minimum wage law would be rendered more meaningless than it already is if employers could not hire illegals to do all of their dirty work, and had to pay more competitive wages to get the help they need.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2007 07:49 am
okie wrote:
You have repeatedly claimed that unemployment is a lot higher than the figures show? You have claimed they are wrong because your math shows more people are needing jobs out of college and so forth than job growth figures show? Now you are claiming we have a shortage in the labor pool. Which is it?



1. The US must produce about 180,000 new jobs every month (based on "expert" economists) to really be "fully" employed. Look at the stats on new jobs, and also include the jobs lost - including the auto industry.

2. The unemployment rate the government produces only reflects those who have been out of work for only the past 4 or 6 weeks. They drop all those looking for work, but are still unemployed.

3. The shortage in the labor pool on farms and restaurants will be exacerbated by destroying the labor pool they have now - mostly Mexican workers. Many others, including whites and Asians - no matter what economic level they live in do not work on farms or in restaurants.

4. It's not about the minimum wage, stupid. With no skills based on education, Mexicans are relegated to the work they know and have access to.

5. Mexicans are typically very hard workers, and employers do not hesitate to hire them. Many places around the US make special accommodations for the Mexican workers, because without them, many of their farms and businesses would go under.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2007 02:41 pm
Illegal immigration is the conservative's secret weapon. It lowers labor costs, increasing profits and the compensation of CEO's. Unfortunately, too many people, especially the mindless nonwealthy conservative voter, fair to see this.


Conservatives are all atwitter about illegal immigrants. Some want to give them amnesty. Others want to reinstitute the old Bracero program. Others want to build a wall around America, like the communists did around East Berlin. Some advocate all of the above.

But none will tell Americans the truth about why we have eleven million illegal aliens in this nation now (when it was fewer than 2 million when Reagan came into office), why they're staying, or why they keep coming. In a word, it's "jobs." In conservative lexicon, it's "cheap labor to increase corporate profits." ...

One of the tools conservatives have used very successfully over the past 25 years to drive down wages, bust unions, and increase CEO salaries has been to encourage illegal immigrant labor in the US. Their technique is transparently simple.

Conservatives well understand supply and demand. If there's more of something, its price goes down. If it becomes scarce, its price goes up.

They also understand that this applies just as readily to labor as it does to houses, cars, soybeans, or oil. While the history of much of the progressive movement in the United States has been to control the supply of labor (mostly through pushing for maximum-hour, right-to-strike, and child-labor laws) to thus be able to bargain decent wages for working people, the history of conservative America has, from its earliest days grounded in slavery and indentured workers from Europe, been to increase the supply of labor and drive down its cost. ...

Today, this fundamental economic rule of labor supply and demand is most conspicuous in the conservative reluctance to stop illegal immigration into the United States. All those extra (illegal) workers, after all, drive up the supply - and thus drive down the cost - of labor. Even in areas where there are not high populations of illegal immigrants, their presence elsewhere in the American workforce drives down overall the cost of labor nationwide. And when the cost of labor goes down, there's more money left over for CEOs and stockholder dividends. ...

But conservative strategists have noticed that the workers - and the voters - of the United States are getting nervous about nearly 10 percent of our workforce being both illegal and cheap. This has led conservative commentators and politicians to resort to classic "wedge issue" rhetoric, exploiting Americans' fears -- while working to keep conditions relatively the same as they are today. ...

None of the various con proposals - from a fence to amnesty - address the fundamental truth of the situation: Conservatives and the businesses they represent want to maintain a large, illegal or marginally legal, and thus powerless workforce in the United States, to keep down the price of labor and help them finally destroy the union movement - and, thus, that politically pesky middle class. ...

Conservatives believe that what John Adams called "the rabble" - you and me - can't really be trusted with governance, and therefore that job should be kept to an elite few. The big difference between the old-line Burke conservatives and modern conservatives is that Burke and the cons of his day felt that an hereditary ruling class was desirable (because it would inculcate rulers with a sense of "noblesse oblige"), whereas modern cons like Adams, McKinley, Kirk, and Bush believe that the ruling class should be more of a meritocracy - rule by the "best."

And - in the finest tradition of John Calvin (who suggested that wealth was a sign of God's blessing) - what better indication of "best" could there be than "richest"? They believe there should be a thin veneer of democracy on these old conservative notions of aristocracy in order to placate the masses, but are quite certain that it would be a disaster should the rabble ever actually have a strong say in running the country.

This is, at its core, why conservatives embrace the idea of eliminating the American middle class and replacing it with a Dickensian "working poor" class, and are working so hard to use illegal immigrant labor as the lever to bring this about. ...

If Congress were to pass a law that said, quite simply, that the CEO of any business that was caught employing illegal immigrants went to jail for a year - no exceptions - then within a month there would be ten million (more or less) people lined up at the Mexican border trying to get out of the United States. The US unemployment rate would drop close to zero, and wages would begin to rise. The American middle class would begin to return to viability, as would the union movement in this nation. ...
-davechandler.info
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 02:40 pm
Illegal alien on bail when students shot
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) ?- Jose Carranza, an illegal alien from Peru, was indicted twice this year: 31 counts surrounding the reputed sexual assault of a child and nine stemming from a bar fight.

But federal immigration officials hadn't heard of him until Thursday, when he was charged in the execution-style shooting deaths of three Newark college students.

Mr. Carranza had been free after posting a bond of $5,000 when the shootings occurred, but immigration officials say he may never have returned to the streets had local authorities contacted them after his first felony arrest in October 2006.

"We certainly would have been inclined to place him in a removal proceeding, however we came across him," said Marc Raimondi, spokesman for United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement. "Given that he is alleged to have committed a very serious offense against a child, that would have put him at the top of our list."

New Jersey is among the places where local authorities aren't required to check the immigration status of someone arrested, and some critics want that changed.

"If New Jersey is not prepared to cooperate with federal officials in enforcing the law of the land, then our state is no longer governed by laws," said state Assemblyman Richard Merkt, a Republican who last year proposed a bill that would require jail officials to remand illegal aliens to federal authorities. The legislation never advanced.

Last week Mr. Carranza, 28, was charged in the Aug. 4 shootings of four persons, ages 18 to 20, in a schoolyard near their homes. The three who died were forced to kneel against a wall and shot at close range; a fourth survived a gunshot wound to the head.Two juveniles also were arrested, and authorities have a warrant for a fourth suspect, Rodolfo Godinez, 24. Mr. Raimondi said Mr. Godinez is a lawful permanent resident, a status obtained in 2001 despite several arrests.Mr. Carranza was indicted in April on assault and weapons charges from the barroom fight, then was indicted in July on sexual assault charges. Bail was set at $50,000 for the first case and $150,000 on the other, but Mr. Carranza had to post only $5,000 using a bail bondsman, according to court records.

At the request of state Senate President Richard J. Codey, New Jersey Attorney General Anne Milgram agreed to review the two men's cases."Someone clearly dropped the ball here, and now three good kids are gone and another is seriously wounded," said Mr. Codey, a Democrat.

The prosecutor supervising the sex assault case, Mark S. Ali, said the office probably thought Mr. Carranza had legal status based on an application that the suspect made for a court-appointed attorney. Yesterday, a judge revoked Mr. Carranza's bail at the request of prosecutors.

Paul Loriquet, a spokesman for the Essex County Prosecutor's Office, said the office generally refers illegal aliens to federal authorities only after a defendant is sentenced.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 02:54 pm
au, where is your compassion. I have to assume you think that the shooter should have been previously kicked just because he made a little criminal mistake, and that the other shooter should not have been given legal status. Maybe you are a bigot.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 02:58 pm
Advocate wrote:
au, where is your compassion. I have to assume you think that the shooter should have been previously kicked just because he made a little criminal mistake, and that the other shooter should not have been given legal status. Maybe you are a bigot.


And maybe you are an idiot. Check that no maybe about it.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 03:00 pm
Anybody here looking at the poll on this thread?

So far, with 100 votes cast, the "against" illegals have 2/3, the pro illegals have 1/3 of the total - about the same as nationwide results.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 03:07 pm
High Seas wrote:
Anybody here looking at the poll on this thread?

So far, with 100 votes cast, the "against" illegals have 2/3, the pro illegals have 1/3 of the total - about the same as nationwide results.


Factually... 2/3 of Americans in all of the polls polls run by reputable organiztions (i.e. polls run by the CIS or the KKK not included) support a compromise that includes giving immigrants here illegally now should be given a path to citizenship.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2007 03:17 pm
The key phrase for the next few months: Immigration hardliners are blocking progress

The economic downturn that will soon be caused by the fact that extremists blocked needed immigration reform is going to drive another spike into the coffin of the conservative movement.

Business... from big business, to small businesses to family farms are already screaming that the extremism of the anti-"illegal"-immigrant folk is hurting their businesses.

Americans don't like extremists, and the pro-immigrant side has been the reasonable side who is willing to compromise.

The 2008 election will prove me right on this (as if the 2006 election didn't say enough).
0 Replies
 
 

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