What should be done about illegal immigration?

cicerone imposter wrote:

Senate puts off action on immigration

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 22 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Senate leaders agreed Monday that they would wait until June to take final action on a bipartisan plan to give millions of unlawful immigrants legal status.

Well that's a relief. Seems they should at least have enough time to pretend to read it before making a decision. Btw, has this Congress done anything of any use yet? I don't recall hearing about a single meaningful thing. Confused

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OBill, I'm of the same opinion about the "new" democratic majority of congress; worthless.

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snood wrote:

Cycloptic:

Quote:
If the average Hispanic man or woman doesn't like the situation in their society, the proper course of action is to work to fix it, not to abandon it and go live in rich America.

It's fine to say they should "work to fix" their society, but someone struggling to literally clothe and feed himself isn't very likely to be able to muster much energy for social/political advocacy.
Do you know what poverty and struggle for survival are?

Of course I do - which is one of the reasons that I am for an increase in legal immigration, guest worker programs, and for spending money to help Mexico and other South American countries get on their feet politically and socially, not to mention economically.

I understand that there is difficulty involved, but that doesn't make it unneccessary or not worth trying to fix. There is no other long-term solution for the people who live in these countries, then for those who are willing to work hard and take risks to make things better. Leaving for America essentially puts your interests above that of your people, and that's okay - understandable, certainly. But your people don't get anywhere, and the problems compound as the population grows.

I'm sympathetic to the plight of the poor man, anywhere, but it's not a reason to not enforce our territorial boundaries.

Cycloptichorn

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How can we help South American countries when we're already spending two billion dollars every week in Iraq for some unknown benefit for anyone?

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snood wrote:

Cycloptic:

Quote:
If the average Hispanic man or woman doesn't like the situation in their society, the proper course of action is to work to fix it, not to abandon it and go live in rich America.

It's fine to say they should "work to fix" their society, but someone struggling to literally clothe and feed himself isn't very likely to be able to muster much energy for social/political advocacy.
Do you know what poverty and struggle for survival are?

It sure wouldn't appear so, would it? 43 MILLION people living in poverty there. I'm sure that's the fault of the 12 to 20 million that chose not to. I guess the world would be a much better place if there was 55 or or 63 million living in poverty there instead. Selfish trespassing A-holes. I was going to pick that fruit myself. Evil or Very Mad

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cicerone imposter wrote:

OBill, I'm of the same opinion about the "new" democratic majority of congress; worthless.

The new Speaker ran her mouth quite a bit... but it appears that's all she does... which makes sense since it's all she's ever done.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

How can we help South American countries when we're already spending two billion dollars every week in Iraq for some unknown benefit for anyone?

we are spending $80 million per month to the Pakistan army to search for Osama.

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Quote:

Devil in details for high-profile immigration bill

From Tribune news services

May 22, 2007

WASHINGTON -- Senate leaders on Monday gave themselves an extension on passage of a major immigration reform bill, backing off of their previous deadline of Memorial Day. Some questions and answers on where the bill stands:

Q: Is there a bipartisan deal or not?
A: Key senators in both parties have agreed, but many colleagues are in bitter opposition. Proponents expect a barrage of amendments that could unravel the compromise.

Q: What's the new time frame?
A: Debate will continue for another week after senators return from a week's recess on June 4.

Q: Is the bill in trouble?
A: Not necessarily. Proponents noted a positive step Monday: The Senate voted 69-23 to begin at least two weeks of debate, giving an opening victory to the coalition of supporters and to the White House, which backs the bill.

Q: What is the bill's key provision?
A: The most fundamental -- and most controversial -- would enable all illegal immigrants who entered the U.S. before the first of this year to stay in the country and work under "Z visas" that would be renewable every four years. They would be required to pass criminal background checks and pay a $1,000 fine. Those who wanted to get on track for U.S. citizenship by getting a green card would have to wait more than eight years and return home to apply. They also would have to pay an additional $4,000 and show proficiency in English.

Q: What's the objection to that?
A: Opponents believe it amounts to amnesty for illegal activity. "A few senators and the administration have crafted a large-scale get-out-of-jail-free pass," said Sen. Jim Bunning (R-Ky). Opponents may try to amend the bill to let fewer immigrants stay in the country. A bill by Rep. Dan Lungren (R-Calif.) would send home illegal immigrants who had been in the U.S. for fewer than five years and bar them from gaining lawful status.

Q: Are there other controversial provisions?
A: Yes. A guest-worker program could bring in up to 600,000 workers a year to fill low-skilled jobs. Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) may attempt as early as Tuesday to reduce the cap to 200,000. Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-N.D.) hopes to dismantle the guest-worker program entirely.

Q: Do pro-immigration advocates like the guest-worker program?
A: Not really. Many of them want to recast the program to enable immigrants who participate to get on track for citizenship instead of returning to their home countries when their visas expire.

Q: Do pro-immigration advocates have other objections?
A: Yes. Some oppose a proposed merit-based system in which more than one-third of future immigrants would be admitted under a point system based on their skills, education and potential contributions to in-demand industries. Humanitarian groups plan to attack the proposed change because they say the point system undermines the traditional family basis of the immigration system.
Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune

Source

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Iran just threw out 60,000 Afghans.
France says no amnesty for their muslim immigrants.

Grow some balls. There's 30-million Mexicans here that need a ride home.

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shiksa wrote:

There's 30-million Mexicans here that need a ride home.

interesting number, did you get it from JustGiggles?

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"France's minister of immigration and national identity, a new ministry created by President Nicolas Sarkozy, has ruled out legalizing undocumented immigrants en masse.

The new ministry said today that government policy would be dictated by firmness and pragmatism"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=456666&in_page_id=1811&ito=1490

Good for the French. The US should be just as firm.

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"FARMERS BRANCH, Texas (AP) - A federal judge Monday blocked enforcement of a voter-endorsed ordinance preventing apartment rentals to most illegal immigrants in this Dallas suburb, opponents of the ban said.
The ordinance was to take effect Tuesday, more than a week after voters approved it. Opponents had filed three requests in federal court for an injunction to stop its enforcement. "

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P91Q900&show_article=1

But, alas, We have Judges and politicians who REFUSE to follow the will of the people.

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""At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected?

"I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

So said Abe Lincoln to the Young Men's Lyceum in Springfield. Observing the Senate last week, and looking over the latest figures from the Census Bureau, America is now risking national suicide.

Last week, senators meeting in secret produced a bill to legalize our 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens. If a path to citizenship becomes law, nothing will stop the next invasion. As President Bush acknowledges, 6 million tried to breach our southern border in his first five years. One in 12 - 500,000 - had a criminal record.

Addressing the Knights of Columbus in 1915, Theodore Roosevelt warned, "The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities."

In every way possible, Americans have said they do not want to take this risk with their country. Why, then, are our elites taking it?"

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/staticarticles/article55810.html

When Americans were Patriotic, we had LEADERS like these 2 gnetleman.

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dyslexia wrote:

shiksa wrote:
There's 30-million Mexicans here that need a ride home.
interesting number, did you get it from JustGiggles?

I agree, that is probably a low estimate.

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"Squabbling nationalities" cannot be ignored in the mix. It does not matter what race, color, country of origin etc. etc. any immigrant is so long as their intention is to come here to be an American and all that means. We must be ever wary of those who would intentionally or unintentionally re-create the problems that prompted them to leave their former countries.

I don't want to see any more of the following:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/images/flag.jpg

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/m/montebello-flag.htm

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Some of you have expressed the view that because of the poverty on the other side of the fence any attempt to stop the invasion from the south will be a failure. I wonder would they have that attitude regarding their property? Hell they are going to rob me anyway so why protect my property? This is an invasion by an alien force and I do not doubt for a moment if the will is there to take whatever action is required it can be stopped. And I do mean whatever action required.

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Border security first, Americans tell polls
By Sean Lengell
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
May 22, 2007

Americans favor stronger border security and enforcement of existing immigration laws before any new immigration rules take effect, according to polls.
But a tough stance on enforcement of U.S. policy doesn't mean the country is opposed to more immigration, pollsters say, as many surveys also show support for giving illegal aliens in the United States a path toward legal residency or citizenship.
Opinion polls on the immigration debate vary and often contradict one another. But most surveys show that better border security and enforcement of current immigration law are priorities for Americans.
Fifty-six percent of U.S. adults favored an "enforcement-only" approach to immigration reform with no path to citizenship for illegal aliens in the United States, according to a Rasmussen Reports poll conducted earlier this month.
When a path to citizenship for illegal aliens was added to the mix, the Rasmussen survey showed 42 percent in support and 44 percent opposed.
"Enforcement of existing laws is the No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 priority for immigration reform among Americans," said Scott Rasmussen, president of Rasmussen Reports. "That's what voters think immigration reform means."
A Los Angeles Times/ Bloomberg Poll from April shows that 40 percent support an enforcement-only approach to immigration reform, with 55 percent favoring an immigration policy that includes tougher enforcement of immigration laws coupled with a guest-worker program that would allow foreigners to work legally in the United States on temporary visas.
In a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll conducted this month, 50 percent of those surveyed opposed the creation of a temporary-worker program that would allow foreigners to enter the United States for several months to work but would not allow them to apply for U.S. citizenship.
The poll also showed 45 percent support for a 700-mile fence along the Mexico border.
The same CNN/Opinion Research poll also revealed that 80 percent favored a program that would allow illegal aliens living in United States to stay and apply for U.S. citizenship if they had a job and paid back taxes.
A USA Today/Gallup Poll conducted last month showed that 78 percent of respondents favored a program that would allow aliens living in the United States illegally to apply for citizenship if they met certain requirements.
"The U.S. is a nation of immigrants, but it's also a nation of laws," Mr. Rasmussen said. "It's not a conflict for Americans to want both open immigration and strict enforcement of immigration laws.
Tamar Jacoby, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a free-market-based think tank, said most recent polls show support for a path to citizenship for illegal aliens ranging from 60 percent to 85 percent, provided the aliens meet certain criteria, such as English language proficiency and the paying of back taxes.
"This just shows that people are ready to deal pragmatically with the immigration problems we have," she said. "You just can't deport 12 million people who are living here illegally."
Immigration is a growing concern for Americans, Ms. Jacoby said. Seventy-seven percent of the those surveyed for a Manhattan Institute poll last month said that they were "more interested" this year compared with last year in Congress passing immigration reform legislation.
"There's an underlining anxiety in the country" over immigration, Ms. Jacoby said. "People are seeing immigrants in parts of the country where they never saw them before."

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I'm going to guess that if any of these polls offered an option that is one component being debated in the current Congressional immigration bill that a provision be put in place so that illegals can go home and return through legal means on condition they are willing to learn English, obey the laws, pay taxes, etc. etc. etc. and scrap the silly punative 'fine' and payment of back taxes concept, 90% of Americans would vote for that option.

I think when it is put to the people that some illegals shouldn't receive favor simply because they have broken our laws longer than other illegals, nor should we favor the rich by allowing some to 'buy' their way into the country, nor should those who break the law receive favor over those who have not, that the people will vote for a policy that treats EVERYBODY 100% the same.

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This is a criticism I heard about the proposed legislation that made me wonder who the hell are these people. The bill will allow for immigration based upon skill level rather than family ties. The criticism voiced, we are breaking up families. To that I can only say if you do not want to break up your family. Stay the hell where you are. The US and the American taxpayer has no responsibility in that regard.

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Quote:

If the average Hispanic man or woman doesn't like the situation in their society, the proper course of action is to work to fix it, not to abandon it and go live in rich America.

You'd think that would be obvious. Without the safety valve of illegal immigration, these industrious and good-hearted folk might demand some real reform in their country.

Millions of them have made demands through organized protests here - several times.

Why is it wrong to think that it's in the Mexican people's best interest to solve the underlying problems that cause them to come north illegally?

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What should be done about illegal immigration?

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