How to re-kindle/ save love from the past

wait, wait, wait a minute gozmo. a 24 yr old who pines for a lost love and gets trashed with his pals on a night out is an alcoholic? if js had said he was in his 40s i might see your point, but 24?

first of all, your bedside manner begs for some polishing. instead of jumping to a diagnosis, why don't you ask johnnysmith some questions about his habits.

are you a recovering alcoholic? i take it you are in a profession which related to substance abuse.

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montana, goodness, slappy is your type? i wonder why gozmo doesn't have any expert advice for you and your "affliction."

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Gala wrote:

johnnysmith, slappy is only partially correct and besides, he's talking about the kind of women he's dealt with. ( apologies, slappy, but the majority of your posts are in the range freshman college 101, the first semester away from home) if you have slept with this woman then you are further along then you think. also, women do like to hear from the guy they've been seeing for two months that they love them. i would be sceptical if you told her you loved her after a few dates, but hell, two months is an acceptable amount of time, especially if the two of you did the hula.

i don't think this relationship is dead, persistence can often pay off.

Hmmm, maybe I read wrong, but didn't I hear from a FEMALE here that I'm exactly right?
-"he's talking about the kind of women he's dealt with." Let's see the kind of women I've "dealt with." Attractive, mostly very intelligent, across a pretty broad age range. How the hell do you know what kind of women I've dealt with? You don't, so your opinion there is pretty much worthless, thanks.
-"if you have slept with this woman, than you are further along then you think." WRONG! Why do you think a women is "yours" if she sleeps with a guy? Women want sex just as much as men, and there are plenty who have no problem with one night stands, or seeing a guy mainly for sex, and not a long term relationship.
-When I say women don't want to have their asses kissed, I'm talking about ATTRACTIVE women who have gone through life used to people handing them everything. This obviously doesn't hold true for non-attractive women who welcome flowers on the first date, nice dinners, "I love you's" after a couple of months(which there isn't a set acceptable 'time-frame' for that, but I still think 2 months is extremely soon!).

I could sit here and give SO many examples of times I've been walked all over for being the "nice guy," watching my friends go through the same thing...I could also give many examples of how I've learned to put the ball in the other court, why "chasing" the female(an attractive+intelligent one) will get you on the masturbation highway quick! So don't confuse my typical "freshman 101" posts(which I'm flattered, I shoot more for high school level!) to me giving advice to this poor guy who just got "nexted" by this girl.

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Slappy, not all attractive intelligent women are like that, really. Here on the internet where nobody knows you're a dog, I don't know how I can convince you of that. But many of my friends are "hot" women (hotter when we were in HS/college than now, to be sure, especially the non-moms), and they all hate that stupid game-playing ****. They CAN use their looks to get anything they want, but some of 'em think that's a dishonest way to operate. And they write off the players, and go for the guys who say what's on their minds instead of plotting.

Here's what gets me:

Guy: Man, I hate it when women do that manipulative crap. You know, I can't ogle so they make all these snide comments or start "ogling" men. Turns me OFF. Oh, and by the way, don't bring a woman flowers on the first date. You have to make sure that she doesn't think you like her too much.

Confused

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

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gozmo, my friend, I have to agree with the consensus here. I have enjoyed your posts in other threads....but I must say, while you haven't mentioned your occupation, I could hazard a guess, and your sensitivity to signs of 'alcoholism' is most likely a great boon in your profession, but perhaps a bit premature here. While johnnysmith may or may not choose to examine his behaviour, and may or may not need to, a blanket accusation is unreasonable, when you have not examined the man in person, in private.

As for the Slappy debate....I can't tell you how many models I have dated that appreciated me sooo much more for just approaching them. They all say that men are intimidated by their looks, and just getting a little attention is such a relief, they are willing to do anything, I mean anything, just to keep it. Wink

Maybe Slappy's game is off, or the media has been lying to us....(let's consider this an untested theory)...

Interestingly enough, I think cav and Mrs. cav survive because of our constant questioning of eacth other, rather than despite it....we have forged a very cool kind of communication....took 8 years, but hey, we made it Smile

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Wait, not all attractive intelligent women are "like" what? I never said you should play "games" or that attractive women "use" thier looks to get things. I said they're USED to being treated differently, which they are.
I'm not talking about "playing" women, or not bringing them flowers on the first date to hide your feelings...I'm actually pretty open with my thoughts, and don't consider myself a player, or a dog.
You just have to keep things interesting. I'm not saying you should treat females like sh*t. But when you have a hottie, who's used to guys hitting on them, telling them they're beautiful, ect...once you start doing that stuff on the first date, you're just like every other chump who they know they can walk all over, if they CHOOSE(not saying all women are "like" that). Games over for them...

It's funny how you're interpreting all of this as a "game," or being manipulative, but what it comes down to, is it is SO TRUE! The way I look at it, you have nothing to lose by not forcing the sappy stuff down her throat(no pun inteneded!) and keeping things light, fun, and interesting, but everything to lose by being the typical nice guy.

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Cav...HOLD ON!

DEFINITELY approach hot girls! It's the only way to get anywhere! You have to be the aggressor when meeting women!

The other night at a bar, I probably talked to at LEAST 20 females...the most receptive, warm, friendly one was the hottest one there! The coldest response was probably from the ugliest!

Being intimidated by a woman's looks is another fast track to many dates with your hand.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to say....it's probably done. For one, she was only a casual hook-up. It was two months. Second, when you saw her, you shouldn't have told her how you missed her..instead, you should have just heavily flirted with her while acting "indifferent" to her reaction at the same time. Once a female knows a male will do anything for her, in her mind you're a typical "chump" she can walk all over...you leave no challenge. Does that make sense? I'm not going to get into the different ways to do this. You've got to work on your "game." You've got to realize women are ATTRACTED to guys who front a challenge to them, someone who's "different" then the rest...that's why they say "nice guys finish last."

Women don't want the "nice guy" who's fallen in love with them after a 2 month fling. You should have just taken control of the situation and taken her home last time you saw her. Ask yourself a question: when you first "got her," did you do it by acting overly romantic(like you tried last time seeing her=dumped), or because it was a spur of the moment/fun thing....I'll bet it wasn't because you told her how much you liked her! She DIDN'T fall in love with you! Women speak with thier actions, not with thier words! Telling her you love her didn't work...because she wanted you to be an "alpha male," be a man, and just make it happen, rather then try to win her over with the sappy talk...even if that's how you really feel.

Ok, I'm done with my 1/2 lesson that you may not understand, and every woman here will bash me for. IF you email her, you've got to do something to get her attention...say something like "HEY! I ran into someone that knows you from school! They had some crazy stories about you! What's your #, I'll tell you all about it! LOL" Then make something up once you talk to her...seriously, you can't bring up "emotions" again, you'll kill any chance you have left. Once you start talking to her(if she gives you her contact info), don't act like you're dying to see her, play it cool, try to set up a coffee/beer date...tell her up front you want to be friends, then flirt with her after...act confident, funny, like you've got a life, and keep the attitude in your head she should be chasing YOU, not the other way around. Bust on her, tease her, just have fun. If you play it right, you might be able to get her naked again. Good luck!

If it doesn't work out...who cares??? Learn some new skills and take it out on the next female! I'm off to bed...by myself

Slappy, I was going by most of this post, but especially the stuff I highlighted in red.

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Oh and also I think there will be a different kind of attractive intelligent woman that you meet in bars vs. one you happen to get to know while working together as interns. I.e. this may all hold true for the bar ladies and not this serious, professional-oriented gal our boy longs for.

And by "like that" I was referring to the part where you said you've seen your friends get walked over. Again, bar ladies are more likely to do that kind of purposeful walking, IMO. (By purposeful I mean toying with him, being mean, not just regular hmm guess this won't work out stuff.)

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I'm still not talking about playing a woman...that's just WRONG. When I say "playing," I mean using a woman only for sex, and doing anything to get it...then throwing her away.

Yes, you do have to be aware of your actions and think about your next step(s), and how to act...nothing wrong with that, right?

If you meet a girl who you really, really like, you have to be very careful about scaring her off. And they'll typically be attracted to a guy who is easy going, funny, confident, and who doesn't kiss their ass! You do have to work on "your game, be an alpha male, and play it right!"

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OK, definition of "playing" noted.

But I still think that we're talking about different creatures. (Bar ladies vs. daytime/ work acquaintances.) Easy going, funny, confident, that's all good stuff. But plotting, schmotting. And nice guys don't always finish last -- more to the point, naturally nice guys who try to get their game on can just get all confused and confusing, whereas if they just did what came naturally with the nice gal they met at work, things would be fine.

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I like to meet females everywhere, not just bars...I've dated some very down to earth, smart girls who aren't your typical "bar flies," even had a few tell me how they couldn't believe they gave me thier phone number at a club/bar/party, because they "never do that" with guys they meet at places like that. Another female(who some of my friends couldn't believe she was dating me!) told me how it turned her on that I didn't ask her out for the first few times talking to her on the phone, which would have been "nice-guy" behavior, that would have resulted in her saying "NO." Instead, the chasing turned around...see what I mean? I had nothing to lose by being a little indifferent, but everything to lose by acting "typical."

And when I said being walked all over, I don't mean the women were being mean, or toying, either. It's just dating a girl, going to a certain extent to try to make her happy, then being frustrated how being the nice-guy didn't "get the girl." Buying expensive dinners, gifts, flowers, isn't the way to a female's heart, or her bed.

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Oh, and I'm still told by all the girls I date how "nice" I am. Hmm...

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But but but Slappy you just said right there that the nice non-bar-fly girl that you dated you met... at a club/bar/party! There are nice intelligent attractive women who just don't do that stuff, period. Or do parties, but small-scale, with friends they know well.

I think it's all a crap shoot. Did the nice guys who tried to get the girl the nice guy way get the girl the alpha male way? No? Then how do you know which one works or doesn't?

The main thing I think DOESN'T work is anyone trying to be someone they are not. If all of this stuff is second nature, don't have to think about it, works for you, well then cool. But when you get into advising people, (and I know you're saying you weren't, necessarily), I just want to put in a few dissenting words. The biggest biggest turnoffs ever are people who have read "How to meet girls" or whatever and highlighted certain areas and then clear their throats and try it out. Ugh. That same guy, being naturally shy and naturally besotted, could have very different results.

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Right, you definitely shouldn't be someone you're not...but you've surely heard of "self-improvement," right? Example: I'm in sales, and I'm not too shabby when dealing with people. I used to be very shy with people I didn't know, had no oral communication/speaking skills, and had no clue with women. When I was in college, I wasn't necessarily worse looking than I am now(just a little skinnier), but somehow now, I can attract those females who wouldn't give me a second glance then.
You shouldn't be "fake," but there's nothing wrong with evolving yourself into someone who want to be, and that includes someone who's confident meeting the opposite sex, and learning how to keep things interesting.
And I don't keep the attitude girls at a bar are any less professional, or intelligent than a girl I meet through a friend, or at a small party. One reason I won't ask a girl out first time on the phone, is I want to know if she's worth my time, too. Girl I'm dating now, I met at a club...nothing wrong with that. If you come across like the typical "guy at the bar," then no, the intelligent attractive women won't give you their contact info.
Don't confuse "alpha male" with being a jerk...I mean being assertive.

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'K.

Oh and I don't mean to cast aspersions on women who go to bars, at all. You're right that there's a lot of cool women out there who do that. It's more the other direction -- the women who DON'T go to bars might not be as interested in that whole way of being. From what you say, you meet most of the women you date in a bar/club/party situation, where they have certain expectations, you have to stand out from the crowd, etc. There are women who just don't put themselves in those situations, or do and don't like it, and the same "stand out from the crowd" behaviors might not be required and may even be counterproductive.

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johnnysmith - my short answer, only from my own personal feelings and experience:

If a guy I dated for a couple months first showed up drunk, then overdid the apology then started dishing out his heart to me, my reaction would be - pbbtthh, yuck! What a mess! And what's this guy's sob factor when he's seriously involved with someone? Run away, run away!

It won't be the end of the world if you try to contact her again. However, if there's a man I really want to talk to I respond to him. She didn't.

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Just keep a backlog of shallow women around for sex purposes and don't look for real love.

That's when it'll come along, and then you will no longer care about other women in a romantic or sexual way.

As a touring musician and entertainer I bedded down MANY over the years and even had a couple of wives I cheated on and broke up with without a thought, never looking for love really.

Then one day came squinney and BANG! I've never strayed. I've never waned to, and even at my advanced age, I still get lots of opportunity because women react to what I do.

When love comes it comes (no pun intended.) Meanwhile, go have plenty of fun and as much sex as possible.

WEAR A CONDOM!!!!

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Sugar, nice. Doesn't come across as a confident guy who carries himself with respect, right?
BP, that's definitely one approach. If you just focus on having fun, you'll be more indifferent, which will make you more attractive, plus there's nothing wrong with having a lot of females in your life...

Ironically, I received an email a little while ago today from one of my best friends, a female. She's beautiful, smart, doesn't lack common sense, independent, and just a great person. Here's part of that email:
"Friday night I went out to dinner with guy #1 to the Atlantic Fish company...I had a really good time but I am trying to determine if it was because of him or because the food was so good and I rarely get to eat lobster ravioli's...I am so messed up in the head...well I didn't offer to pay, should I have? hmmm."

If that poor chump didn't waste his money taking her to an expensive restaurant, and instead did something casual, like go out for a drink, or something less to impress her, what would have her reaction been then? In her email, you can see she sensed he was "chasing her," and now she doesn't know what to think, now the ball is in her court. If they did something more light, casual, and fun, maybe she would have said..."I went out with guy#1 for a couple of drinks, and then he dropped me off a little early, and I ended up staying in the rest of the night. I had a really good time, but I'm trying to determine if HE LIKES ME. He even had me pay for a couple of rounds! That doesn't usually happen to me. Hmmm."

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My first date with Mrs. cav was to shoot some pool with a bud from the 4 Seasons hotel, where I was working at the time. I guess I wanted a second opinion before getting too involved, heh heh...so she shows up in a hot little tight black dress, and I am getting the nudge and wink from my co-worker. We get drinks, and she proceeds to tell me everything about her life, including some gory details normally reserved for a shrink, or a very good friend. My friend ran running scared. Normally, a total first date killer. Classic, in fact. My interperation: She may be a little OTT, but someone THIS honest, right off the bat, will never ever screw with my head, as has been done in the past. I hung my hat on what I knew to be true, her honesty and strength. Coincidentally, I was 24 when we met.

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How to re-kindle/ save love from the past

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