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dyslexia and anarchism

 
 
Instigate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 01:46 am
Thomas wrote:
Anonymouse wrote:
All governments are a monopoly of force to the degree that they tax and confiscate the property of their citizens. The citizens in themselves cannot object because of the threat of force. Anything that must exist because of violence and force, such as the State, is unethical.

On the other hand, there will be violent people out there under any political system, and many of them will use violence to their benefit, just as government does. Given that, what would you rather have: a competitive, thriving violence industry, or a system where big-scale violence is monopolized by a "sedentary bandit" (Mancur Olson)? Incidentally, the "sedentary bandid" argument is the major argument why I'm a small-government libertarian, not an anarchist.


Minarchist is the term you're looking for.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 02:23 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Montana wrote:
Just found this and haven't read through, but it sounds good to me, Dys :-)


I rest my case.



Do you get off picking on me?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 02:29 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
But that is not anarchy, is it?
As discussed only the potential for less government, I never claimed it was anarchy, just a move arguably more in that direction.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
As to your conjecture that technology will, inevitably, expand, this is almost a given, but it is entirely unreasonable to expect the world's population to shrink.
In that I would not be so sure, just as in the same fashion I would certainly not limit the scope of future events to this one planet. Don't count your future chickens before they hatch - or don't hatch (gawd don'cha just love them mixed metaphors). For example if/when we have extended life spans in the thousand year plus range, we could indeed see a sea change (alliteration oh boy) in our perspectives on suitable population numbers, let alone the off-earth colony's population considerations.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Is anarchy, then, a movement to reduce, by whatever means, the earth's human population?
Under the idealized circumstances (as already touched on a bit) and depending on one's definition of anarchy, I would (again) suggest that a "sizable reduction in overall government could be achieved without it being a net negative".

Finn d'Abuzz, I do not know where you inferred the notion that your phrase "by whatever means" has congruency as per my posts, but you are welcome to expound on any beliefs you may hold in this regard.

I am going to get a snack, wanna a beverage?
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 02:47 am
I wouldn't waste my breath, Chumly. He only comes around when he feels like insulting a bunch of people and then he leaves.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 02:50 am
Howz my Diesel girl?
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 02:54 am
You changed diesel girl and turned me into Camry girl :-)

I'm doing ok, thanks :-)


How you be?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 03:10 am
I am watching the Colbert Report, feeding Diazey the dog (Chow Chow) Milkbones, and tapping on the lappy; it's fun. Today I got two of my motorcycles all prepped and ready to go, one more left! Man I love bikes.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 03:15 am
Right on! You must be happy that the nice weather is coming then :-D
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 03:18 am
Yah! Howz New Brunswick weather?
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 03:22 am
Not bad. Lots of overcast, but the sun pokes its head out from time to time. I love the Spring and can't wait to get out in my garden.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 03:26 am
I appreciate a good garden, what are you growing?
0 Replies
 
paull
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 02:59 pm
I am late to this thread. but very interested in it.

Government is by nature unable to limit itself. Much like the University business, participants must publish or perish. A shining example of the opposite is the state of Nevada, which legislature meets ever two years for 120 days, and THATS IT. My California assembly wouldn't have ordered their lattes by then.

Concerning Dyslexia's orginal post, of course he oversimplifies. Terms like "individual liberty", "common good" and "intrinsic values" all can have different personal interpretations.

As for his clean water example, I can't think of a question that brings the previous three terms into focus, or blur. Is clean water what doesn't make you sick or so clean that Adam and Eve would recognise it? Is it ok to make the water dirty for a purpose (like business) and then clean it up? Or is it ok to merely build a long enough pipeline to pump it miles offshore so that it isn't noticed, except by oversensitive walrus lovers?

I suspect that Dy' real mantle might be Big L Liberal and small d dreamer.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 03:27 pm
Well yes, of course big L liberal, no contesting that and quite likely small l libertarian. As to "oversimplifing", it's a broad audience one attempts to reach. the "dreamer" bit seems to me reaching for sarcasim from the cellar with a short stick. I'd prefer idealist which I find more accurate as a direction I try to follow rather than a destination I intend to reach.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 04:43 pm
Luke Skywalker may have been able to see good in Darth Father (purposeful misspelling), but, since humans are not good, govt is necessary.

We think of anarchy as disorfer, but, is it necessarily so?

Would like to think of a planet peopled by intellectual, gentle, organic farmers and artists.
0 Replies
 
paull
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 04:54 pm
Liberal idealist. That sounds right. Yin to my yang.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Apr, 2006 05:14 pm
Dys
And then there are the Transnationalists whose only allegience is to themselves.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=71608&start=90

BBB
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 10:25 pm
Montana wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Montana wrote:
Just found this and haven't read through, but it sounds good to me, Dys :-)


I rest my case.



Do you get off picking on me?


Not at all. Do you get off feeling that people are picking on you?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 10:34 pm
Chumly wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
But that is not anarchy, is it?
As discussed only the potential for less government, I never claimed it was anarchy, just a move arguably more in that direction.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
As to your conjecture that technology will, inevitably, expand, this is almost a given, but it is entirely unreasonable to expect the world's population to shrink.
In that I would not be so sure, just as in the same fashion I would certainly not limit the scope of future events to this one planet. Don't count your future chickens before they hatch - or don't hatch (gawd don'cha just love them mixed metaphors). For example if/when we have extended life spans in the thousand year plus range, we could indeed see a sea change (alliteration oh boy) in our perspectives on suitable population numbers, let alone the off-earth colony's population considerations.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Is anarchy, then, a movement to reduce, by whatever means, the earth's human population?
Under the idealized circumstances (as already touched on a bit) and depending on one's definition of anarchy, I would (again) suggest that a "sizable reduction in overall government could be achieved without it being a net negative".

Finn d'Abuzz, I do not know where you inferred the notion that your phrase "by whatever means" has congruency as per my posts, but you are welcome to expound on any beliefs you may hold in this regard.

I am going to get a snack, wanna a beverage?


Chumly, I would be delighted to discuss what the state of society may or may not be a few hundred years from now, but that would be quite an expansion of the scope of this thread.

I may be the last person on A2K who would argue with you that a reduction in overall government is not something for which to strive, but that is not anarchy, irrespective of what your definition of the term may be. It really doesn't depend on what someone's definition of a tree might be to know that a dog ain't one.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 10:37 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Well yes, of course big L liberal, no contesting that and quite likely small l libertarian. As to "oversimplifing", it's a broad audience one attempts to reach. the "dreamer" bit seems to me reaching for sarcasim from the cellar with a short stick. I'd prefer idealist which I find more accurate as a direction I try to follow rather than a destination I intend to reach.


Nice post.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 11:35 pm
Hi Finn d'Abuzz,

It's true I have been known to take a few liberties with the scope of a thread and allude to the considerations of defining one's terms. Thankfully I am an iconoclast in this regard and everyone else is imminently well behaved (a little playfully sarcastic humor)

Recall however that neither you nor I defined anarchy, nor did I state my bias was one of anarchy. All I said was "I will make a partial, and future idealized counter, by suggesting that if the world's population was sparse enough, and the technological level was self-sustainingly high enough, that a quantifiable and sizable reduction in overall government could be achieved without it being a net negative."

Further to define one's terms by exclusion is not a definition as per your tree analogy. Now I am just being argumentative for it's own sake, which it just plain immature and another foible only I fall prey to alas (a little self-depreciating humor)
0 Replies
 
 

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