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WHY ISLAM IS BECOMING THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION..Serious

 
 
galois
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Aug, 2006 09:51 am
fresco wrote:
...of course....hence the function of religion as an opiate and a palliative.


But better, perhaps, to kill such pain with ancient wisdoms than to rely quite so much on the fruits of modern synthetic biochemistry to address the issues of mental health as we do now?
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Aug, 2006 10:08 am
The problem phrase here is "ancient wisdoms". If this refers to spiritual concepts such as "the illusion of dualities" I might be prepared to agree, but if it refers to some arbitrary ontology about "prime movers" and "creation" (as in "the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away") we are into fairy tales for adults !
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Aug, 2006 10:11 am
Ah, but "ancient wisdom" sounds so cool and perceptive, and is sufficiently vague and arbitrarily definable as to cover a host of philosophical sins . . .
0 Replies
 
galois
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Aug, 2006 10:45 am
Setanta wrote:
No, Galois, i missed nothing, and it seems more apparent to me that you just used my post as a springboard to preen your ego on your "understanding" of humanity.

.....

You're missing points all over the map.


OK, fair cop. I agree that I had a point to make and your post was a good springboard. I admit that until a relatively short while ago I had a problem understanding why any intelligent person who knew the rudiments of physics and evolution, and the unassailable evidence on which these theories were based, could possibly believe in Biblical twaddle. And for the same reasons as you purport in your post (which is why it was such a good springboard). Either it's the work of God or the work of primitive peoples. If it is the word of God, either God is a liar, or God puts in his creation clues that are so misleading as to cause his creations to honestly conclude that he must be a liar, and moreover clues which if honestly followed lead to great and self-evident success in understanding, explaining and exploiting his creation. Neither option is very palatable, so much much more plausible is that these myths are the work of primitive Man with no supernatural involvement. QED. Education will inevitably defeat God. No further need for thought for 20 years.

But actually I have recently come to the realisation that this argument is sterile. And that in a "deep" sense it misses the point. Or, rather, addresses the wrong question. The point being that the Bible *had* to explain creation in some way, but that the description of the origin of things occupied only a very few paragraphs out of many thousands, paragraphs that rational scientists seize on to rubbish the whole book without looking any further, using the above argument. It strikes me that most of the rest of the book concerns topics regarding human emotional and community experience (as I refered to in earlier posts) that Science has, over the last 300 years, singularly failed to address in any near-adequate manner. When argued like this, the question is subtly changed. It is suddenly science that is accused of inadequacy. And in a way that is hard to refute.

But I think this is not intellectual sleight of hand, but rather it is core to the question of this topic, namely why Islam is becoming more popular.

So if I offended you, I am sorry. It was not intended.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Aug, 2006 10:50 am
You didn't offend me, i just didn't intend to be told that i'd missed a point i had not missed.

I don't and never had contended that "education will defeat god." I have no good reason to assert that anything will defeat god, and don't see any reason why anyone should make such an attempt.

I recognize that the non-theists and the atheists are a distinct minority. But, as i pointed out in quoting Cicero, they likely have been around as long as the theists, and there has always been sufficient doubt about theism, whether inspired by atheists or not, that theists have felt obliged to defend their position.

But that was a point i was making later. My original point was simply that the description of the deity in the Abrahamic myths is a silly one. As one member here is found of saying, a cartoon god.
0 Replies
 
dalahow2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Sep, 2006 06:14 am
Re: WHY ISLAM IS BECOMING THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION..Seri
dalahow2 wrote:
WHAT THE MEDIA and PERSONALITIES SAY ABOUT ISLAM

Quote:
"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..."
HILLARY RODMAN CLINTON, Los Angeles Times, May 31, 1996, p.3


Quote:
Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world's fastest-growing religion. ABCNEWS, Abcnews.com


Quote:
"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country." NEWSDAY, March 7, 1989, p.4


Quote:
"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States..." NEW YORK TIMES, Feb 21, 1989, p.1


Quote:
"Moslems are the world's fastest-growing group..." USA TODAY, The populationreferance bureau, Feb. 17,
1989, p.4A


Quote:
"Muhummed is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities. " Encyclopedia Britannica


Quote:
"There are more Muslims in North America then Jews Now." Dan Rathers, CBSNEWS


Quote:
"Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America." TIMES MAGAZINE


Quote:
"Islam continues to grow in America, and no one can doubt that!" CNN, December 15, 1995


Quote:
"The religion of Islam is growing faster than any other religion in the world." MIKE WALLACE, 60 MINUTES


Quote:
"Five to 6 million strong, Muslims in America already outnumber Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Mormons, and they are more numerous than Quakers, Unitarians, Seventh-day Adventists, Mennonites, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Christian Scientists, combined. Many demographers say Islam has overtaken Judaism as the country's second-most commonly practiced religion; others say it is in the passing lane." JOHAN BLANK, USNEWS (7/20/98)


Quote:
"In fact, religion experts say Islam is the second-largest religion in the United States... Islam has 5 million to 6 million members, followed by Judaism, with approximately 4.5 million..... And Islam is believed to be fastest-growing religion in the country, with half its expansion coming from new immigrants and the other half from conversions." By ELSA C. ARNETT Knight-Ridder News Service


WHAT SCIENTISTS ARE ALSO SAYING

Quote:
Professor Keith Moore, one of the world's prominent scientists of anatomy and embryology. University of Toronto, Canada "It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur'aan about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from Allah, or Allah, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of Allah."


Quote:
"But Islam has a still further service to render to the cause of humanity. It stands after all nearer to the real East than Europe does, and it possesses a magnificent tradition of inter-racial understanding and cooperation. No other society has such a record of success uniting in an equality of status, of opportunity, and of endeavours so many and so various races of mankind . . . Islam has still the power to reconcile apparently irreconcilable elements of race and tradition. If ever the opposition of the great societies of East and West is to be replaced by cooperation, the mediation of Islam is an indispensable condition. In its hands lies very largely the solution of the problem with which Europe is faced in its relation with East. If they unite, the hope of a peaceful issue is immeasurably enhanced. But if Europe, by rejecting the cooperation of Islam, throws it into the arms of its rivals, the issue can only be disastrous for both." --H.A.R. Gibb, WHITHER ISLAM, London, 1932, p. 379.


Quote:
"It (Islam) replaced monkishness by manliness. It gives hope to the slave, brotherhood to mankind, and recognition of the fundamental facts of human nature." --Canon Taylor, Paper read before the Church Congress at Walverhamton, Oct. 7, 1887; Quoted by Arnoud in THE PREACHING OF ISLAM, pp. 71-72.


Quote:
"The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammed. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he? " Lamartine, Historie de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol. 11 pp. 276-2727


Quote:
"If a man like Muhamed were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness." George Bernard Shaw


Quote:
"How, for instance, can any other appeal stand against that of the Moslem who, in approaching the pagan, says to him, however obscure or degraded he may be 'Embrace the faith, and you are at once equal and a brother.' Islam knows no color line." (S. S. Leeder, VEILED MYSTERIES OF EGYPT)


Quote:
Professor Siaveda , He is also one of the most famous scientists in the world. "I think it seems to me very, very mysterious, almost unbelievable. I really think if what you have said is true, "


Quote:
Professor William W. Hay is one of the best known marine scientists in the United States. satellite photography and emote-sensing techniques. Professor Hay replied: I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scripture of the Holy Qur'aan, and I have no way of knowing where they would come from, but I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and that this work is going on to discover it, the meaning of some of the passages. Professor Hay: Well, I would think it must be the divine being!


Quote:
Professor Yushudi Kusan: Director of the Tokyo Observatory, "I can say, I am very mush impressed by finding true astronomical facts in the Qur'aan."


Quote:
Professor Alfred Kroner who is one of the world's most famous geologists "Thinking about many of these questions and thinking where Muhammad came from, he was after all a bedouin. I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advanced technological methods that this is the case."


Quote:
Dr. T.V.N. Persaud is a Professor of Anatomy and Head of the Department of Anatomy, and a professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. He is the author or editor of 25 books, and has published over 181 scientific papers. In 1991, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada. "It seems to me that Muhammad was a very ordinary man. He could not read or write. In fact, he was illiterate. We are talking about 1400 years ago. You have someone who was illiterate making profound pronouncement and statements and are amazingly accurate about scientific nature. I personally cannot see how this could be mere chance. There are too many accuracy's and, like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind in concerning that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements."


Quote:
Joe Leigh Simpson, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the North Western University in Chicago in the United States of America. Professor Simpson said: It follows, I think, that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion, but in fact religion can guide science by adding revelation to some traditional scientific approaches. That there exists statements in the Qur'aan shown by science to be valid, which supports knowledge in the Qur'aan having been derived from Allah.


Quote:
Professor Palmer a scientist from the U.S. "We need research into the history of early Middle Eastern oral traditions to know whether in fact such historical events have been reported. If there is no such record, it strengthens the belief that Allah transmitted through Muhammad bits of his knowledge that we have only discovered for ourselves in recent times. We look forward to a continuing dialogue on the topic of science in the Qur'aan in the context of geology. Thank you very much."


Quote:


Quote:
Professor Armstrong, Scientist works at NASA, "I am impressed that how remarkably some of the ancient writings seem to correspond to modern and recent Astronomy. There may well have to be something beyond what we understand as ordinary human experience to account for the writings that we have seen."


Quote:
Professor Dorja Rao, "It is difficult to imagine that this type of knowledge was existing at that time, around 1400 years back. May be some of the things they have simple idea about, but do describe those things in great detail is very difficult. So, this is definitely not a simple human knowledge."


ISLAM AND THE RIGHTS OF WOMEN:

Indeed, Islam is the only way of life that gives women their full rights.

Each and every one of the following points is a real and true teaching of Islam, based on the Holy Qur'an and on the tradition of the prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him):

- Islam declared women and men equal in rights and duties.

- Islam condemned pre-Islamic practices degrading and oppressing women.

- The same injunctions and prohibitions of Islam equally apply to both sexes.

- Islam gave woman the right of inheritance and the right of individual independent ownership unhampered by father, husband, brother, son or anyone else.

- Islam gave women the right to accept or reject a marriage proposal free from pressure, and by mutual agreement to specify in the marriage contract that she has the right to divorce (if she misses that option she has the right to seek court divorce if she deems the marriage to have failed beyond repair).

- Islam does not require woman to change her name at marriage.

- Islam protects the family and condemns the betrayal of marital fidelity. It recognizes only one type of family: husband and wife united by authentic marriage contract.

- "Heaven is at the feet of mothers", is a basic Islamic teaching (which means: if you're kind to your mother, if you obey her, if you don't 'forget' her when she's old... then God (Allah in Arabic) will grant you Heaven (Paradise)).

Quote:
- "The best of you are the kindest to their wives and I am your best to mine", is a teaching by prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).


- Islam enjoins sounds morality in thinking, behavior and appearance. Dress fashions and social patterns that reduce woman to a sex object and exploit her as such are not acceptable to Islam.

- The observance of chastity and moral standards is equally demanded by Islam from both men and women. "Women are the siblings of men", is a saying of prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).


Let me sum up with this QURANIC chapter about forced conversion to ISLAM

HOLY QURAAN Chapter 2:256

Quote:
"There is no compulsion in religion(ISLAM). Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower".



And Allah knows best.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Sep, 2006 06:33 am
dalahow2

Do you get extra brownie points from Allah for regurgitation ?

Nice new tag line by the way...pity it misses out the bit about muslims slaughtering muslims !

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/03/world/middleeast/03iraq.html
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 10:43 am
I would just like to say that people who use these extremist fools as a basis to understand what Islam teaches are either happy to continue living in Ignorance or are completely brainless

If someone was driving a car and he crashed it whilst driving drunk, would you say it was the fault of the driver or that of the car?

Similarly you cannot judge a religion by the people who follow it.
Read about Islam from what history has written about the Prophet Mohammed and his companions.


Look at what NON - MUSLIM HISTORIANS AND SCHOLARS HAS WRITTEN About him:

If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes This man moved not only armies, legislation, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then-inhabited world; and more than that he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls.... His forbearance in victory, his ambition which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire, his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was
twofold: the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words. Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?
- Lamartine
Histoire de la Turquie, Pans 1854, Vol. 11, pp. 276-77.


It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder; the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved, after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran...
The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. I believe in One God and Mohammed is the Apostle of God' is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue; and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion.
- Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay
History of the Saracen Empire, London 1870, p 54.


He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue. If ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports.
- Bosworth Smith
Mohammed and Mohammedanism, London 1874, p 92.


It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for
that mighty Arabian teacher.
- Annie Besant
The Life and Teachings of Muhammad, Madras 1932, p 4


His readiness to undergo persecution for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement all argue his fundamental integrity To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly
appreciated in the West as Muhammad.
- W Montgomery Watt
Mohammed At Mecca, Oxford, 1953, p 52.


Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about AD. 570 into an Arabian tube that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five his employer, recognizing his meet, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her, and as long as she lived remained a devoted husband. Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy But the angel commanded Read'. So far as we know, Muhammad was
unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God." In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumors of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have
announced,' An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being."
At Muhammads own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: 'If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you
worshipped, He lives for ever'.
James A. Michene~
"Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,"
Reader's Digest (Amencan ea.) May 1955, pp. 68-70.


My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level.
Michael H. Hart
The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History,
New York: Hart Publishing Company Inc. 1978, p 33.


Wake up and realise that the slander and propaganda against Islam is not true!!
Islam is perfect, some of its supposed followers are not.
These wicked people who claim to be doing these atrocities in the name of Islam are like the hooligans every football team has. However small in number they may be, they always catch the headlines

Peace
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 12:51 pm
This thread is about the expansion of Islam, not the phenomenon of "hero worship" which like "love" tends impair the critical faculties of the acolyte.

As for the central claim that Islam is expanding, this particular week's report of the regular self-inflicted carnage in Iraq is presumably nature's way of keeping things in balance !
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 01:17 pm
fresco wrote:
This thread is about the expansion of Islam, not the phenomenon of "hero worship" which like "love" tends impair the critical faculties of the acolyte.

As for the central claim that Islam is expanding, this particular week's report of the regular self-inflicted carnage in Iraq is presumably nature's way of keeping things in balance !


Was their a Civil War before the US invaded? I don't think so, Saddam had the country under control. Now look what happened.


Anyways, it just means Judgement Day is getting nearer and nearer.

Allah's Apostle said, "The Day of (Judgment) will not be established till there is a war between two groups whose claims (or religion) will be the same."
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 01:25 pm
Raul-7,

......so Saddam was doing a good job then ! Smile
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 06:32 pm
Raul-7 wrote:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Day of (Judgment) will not be established till there is a war between two groups whose claims (or religion) will be the same."
No he didnt.
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Nov, 2006 07:50 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
Raul-7 wrote:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Day of (Judgment) will not be established till there is a war between two groups whose claims (or religion) will be the same."
No he didnt.


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/056.sbt.html#004.056.806
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 04:22 am
fresco wrote:
This thread is about the expansion of Islam, not the phenomenon of "hero worship" which like "love" tends impair the critical faculties of the acolyte.

As for the central claim that Islam is expanding, this particular week's report of the regular self-inflicted carnage in Iraq is presumably nature's way of keeping things in balance !


You're bigoted views sadden me. It is wrong to assume that all Muslim's are crazed lunatics who want to kill every disbeliever in sight.
There is no complusion in religion. There are numerous stories of who Mohammed (pbuh) was kind and compassionate to non-muslims even when he was attacked by them.
I have been a Muslim for 5 months now and since that time, there have bee a great influx of new reverts from Buddism, christianity, Sikhism etc.

Your idea that Islam only grows by procreation is wrong. There are more Muslims (submitters to God) coming all the time. As the Quotes from the beginning of this thread have stated.

I hope you can remove the hostility from your heart and understand that Islam is the complete religion, of God the create of all.

Either you came from nothing

Or you created yourself

Or You were created.

Think about it Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 04:54 am
I believe the penalty for leaving Islam is death! Think about it.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 06:46 am
Abid wrote:
Islam is the complete religion, of God the create of all.


no its not. Its an unfortunate side affect of evolution. Its certainly not complete, nor is it logical or evidence based. Historically, the written up version of what Mohammed was supposed to have said, was put together bit by bit many years after his death, with the specific purpose of serving the rapidly expanding Arab empire. Textual analysis shows it to be derived from a heretical form of Judaism based on the Talmud.

If I were you I would read up about what Islam really is or rather was, before you get further into it Abid, because leaving it can be difficult.

Just a simple question which I have asked many times and never got an answer from Muslims...what happened to all the artefacts, parchment, scapula bones, etc etc on which Mohammed's words were written down by scribes?

How come nothing from Mohammed's time survives? Did later generations throw away the original words of God as given to Mohammed? Or is it more likely that the whole thing is a myth, deliberately created and sold to the gullible as a means of control?
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 08:01 am
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_401_450/oldest_quran_in_the_world.htm

A little history lesson. bought to you kindly by the BBC

If you were at all interested in finding the truth you would know that the Arabs of the time were the most gifted in poetry, grammar, and linguistics. The challenge of the Quran, still open to this day is to produce ONE verse like that within the Quran. which still has not been achieved.

For you to say that the whole thing was fabricated or even a bit of it changed, is nieve. You haven't bothered to look att he facts.

So you believe that all of the documented miracles that the prophets from Moses through Jesus to Mohammed, witnessed by thousands were all made up?
Quite a conspiracy!!

The Quran to this day is memorized back to front by thousands, some at the age of 6 years old!! - So try to use common sense and think about the thousands that had it memorized then. Do you not think there would have been a little bit of dispute if the companions suddenly said - "Hold on this is what the prophet (pbuh) said" or even more ludicrously
"There was a man 19 years ago who was God's messenger, don't you remember him?"!!!!

Regarding Apostacy - How does this prove Islam is false??

don't get me started on Evolution because that 'theory' is flawed in soo many ways.
1 = How was the original species bought to life?
2 = Why do mutations only cause cell degradation not miraculous new genes for survival?
3 = Why is there not a single fossil discovered showing a link between two creatures evolving?
4 = Did a reptile, who's lungs and other organs which are completely different to a birds come from each other? - A reptile hatched a bird?
5 = Creatures suddenly through 'random' design bought forth milk to feed their young?

Peace
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 08:58 am
Abid wrote:

A little history lesson. bought to you kindly by the BBC

If you were at all interested in finding the truth you would know that the Arabs of the time were the most gifted in poetry, grammar, and linguistics. The challenge of the Quran, still open to this day is to produce ONE verse like that within the Quran. which still has not been achieved.


on another site a New Zealander writes

Quote:
The Koran was not written in modern-day Arabic! It is claimed the world's oldest Koran was compiled in 651 A.D. by Othman, the third caliph. The book is kept in the Soviet Library in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. It is incomplete, about only a third of it remains. It is said that Caliph Othman made five copies of the original Koran. Moslems often claim that the manuscript of a second Othman Koran, also incomplete, housed in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey is one of the oldest sources. They say it dates from around 650 A.D. There are some major flaws with this assertion. This document, is written in Kufic (also known as al-Khatt al-Kufi) script. Coins in the British Museum show that the first coins using the Kufic script date from the mid to end of the 8th century (750-800 A.D.). The only script used during and after Mohammed's days was the Jazm script.
The Othman Koran manuscript in the Tashkent library also uses the Kufic script, indicating late 8th century. This incomplete manuscript begins in the middle of verse 7 of Suratul-Baqarah (the second Surah) and from there on numerous pages are missing.
Furthermore, comparisons between the two manuscripts reveal that they most certainly cannot both be Othman originals. For instance, the Istanbul's Topkapi codex has 18 lines to the page whereas the codex in Tashkent has only half that many, between 8 and 12 lines to the page; the Istanbul codex is inscribed throughout in a very formal manner, the words and lines quite uniformly written out, while the text of the Tashkent codex is often haphazard and considerably distorted. It is hard to believe that the same scribes copied both these manuscripts.


The next oldest Moslem manuscripts are also from the 8th-century. One is written in al-ma'il script and the other in Kufic. Neither of these corresponds precisely to today's Koran. Also, scraps found in Yemen differ and contradict today's Koran so badly, that Moslems try to hide this. These Yemeni Koran scraps are actually the oldest found, written in Hijazi. Hijazi script, is the script in which the earliest pages of the Koran were written. So, it could be anybody's guess who in addition to Mohammed made up the Koran.

a muslim wrote:
I have a question,,Do you know arabic?
Coz if you do , you will know that there arent any contradictions.



There are contradictions aplenty. For example:

From Surah 70 The Ladders....

Quote:
whereby ascend the angels and the Spirit unto Him in a day whose length is fifty thousand years.


From Surah 32 Adoration...
Quote:
He governs the affair from the heaven unto the earth; then shall it ascend to him in a day, the measure of which is as a thousand years of what ye number.


Has the Othman Koran been radio carbon dated? It would be a simple proof. No wonder that its not been tested. Laughing

The oldest Koranic fragments were found in the loft of the Great Mosque at Sana'a during renovation. Not only do they differ from the modern text but show signs of alteration to an even older text.

I think you need to learn some history about your own religion, not me.
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 09:25 am
Where is your proof for this??

Again, i ask you. If I told you that Sharles Dickin's Oliver Twist was actually about a girl called 'Olivia' would you believe me?

sounds kind of far fetched
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
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Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 09:34 am
"However often we turn to it [the Qur'an] at first disgusting us each time afresh, it soon attracts, astounds, and in the end enforces our reverence... Its style, in accordance with its contents and aim is stern, grand, terrible - ever and anon truly sublime -- Thus this book will go on exercising through all ages a most potent influence."
Goethe, quoted in T.P. Hughes' DICTIONARY OF ISLAM, p. 526.

"The Koran admittedly occupies an important position among the great religious books of the world. Though the youngest of the epoch-making works belonging to this class of literature, it yields to hardly any in the wonderful effect which it has produced on large masses of men. It has created an all but new phase of human thought and a fresh type of character. It first transformed a number of heterogeneous desert tribes of the Arabian peninsula into a nation of heroes, and then proceeded to create the vast politico-religious organizations of the Muhammadan world which are one of the great forces with which Europe and the East have to reckon today."
G. Margoliouth, Introduction to J.M. Rodwell's, THE KORAN, New York: Everyman's Library, 1977, p. vii.

"A work, then, which calls forth so powerful and seemingly incompatible emotions even in the distant reader - distant as to time, and still more so as a mental development - a work which not only conquers the repugnance which he may begin its perusal, but changes this adverse feeling into astonishment and admiration, such a work must be a wonderful production of the human mind indeed and a problem of the highest interest to every thoughtful observer of the destinies of mankind."
Dr. Steingass, quoted in T.P. Hughes' DICTIONARY OF ISLAM, pp. 526-527.

"The above observation makes the hypothesis advanced by those who see Muhammad as the author of the Qur'an untenable. How could a man, from being illiterate, become the most important author, in terms of literary merits, in the whole of Arabic literature? How could he then pronounce truths of a scientific nature that no other human being could possibly have developed at that time, and all this without once making the slightest error in his pronouncement on the subject?"
Maurice Bucaille, THE BIBLE, THE QUR'AN AND SCIENCE, 1978, p. 125.

"Here, therefore, its merits as a literary production should perhaps not be measured by some preconceived maxims of subjective and aesthetic taste, but by the effects which it produced in Muhammad's contemporaries and fellow countrymen. If it spoke so powerfully and convincingly to the hearts of his hearers as to weld hitherto centrifugal and antagonistic elements into one compact and well-organized body, animated by ideas far beyond those which had until now ruled the Arabian mind, then its eloquence was perfect, simply because it created a civilized nation out of savage tribes, and shot a fresh woof into the old warp of history."
Dr. Steingass, quoted in T.P. Hughes' DICTIONARY OF ISLAM, p.528.

"In making the present attempt to improve on the performance of my predecessors, and to produce something which might be accepted as echoing however faintly the sublime rhetoric of the Arabic Koran, I have been at pains to study the intricate and richly varied rhythms which - apart from the message itself - constitute the Koran's undeniable claim to rank amongst the greatest literary masterpieces of mankind... This very characteristic feature - 'that inimitable symphony,' as the believing Pickthall described his Holy Book, 'the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy' - has been almost totally ignored by previous translators; it is therefore not surprising that what they have wrought sounds dull and flat indeed in comparison with the splendidly decorated original."
Arthur J. Arberry, THE KORAN INTERPRETED, London: Oxford University Press, 1964,

"A totally objective examination of it [the Qur'an] in the light of modern knowledge, leads us to recognize the agreement between the two, as has been already noted on repeated occasions. It makes us deem it quite unthinkable for a man of Muhammad's time to have been the author of such statements on account of the state of knowledge in his day. Such considerations are part of what gives the Qur'anic Revelation its unique place, and forces the impartial scientist to admit his inability to provide an explanation which calls solely upon materialistic reasoning."
Maurice Bucaille, THE QUR'AN AND MODERN SCIENCE, 1981, p. 18.
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