WHY ISLAM IS BECOMING THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION..Serious

Abid wrote:

I think anyone who believes that cr@p is functionally ignorant.

These monkeys dont shave their beards...

Where did the first mammal come from then you geniouses?

Its true monkeys don't shave. Neither do Muslims. Is there a link?

heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .

Steve 41oo wrote:

I oppose Islam because I find many of its strictures thoroughly detestable, not because many of its followers tend to have brown/dark faces.

What do you detest about it so much?
Why all the hate?
Please list and God willing I will try to explain

...I have yet to see after several years on this forum any hint of intellectuality or depth of meaning associated with the tenets of Islam which compare in quality with those of general "spiritual enquiry".

abid wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:

I oppose Islam because I find many of its strictures thoroughly detestable, not because many of its followers tend to have brown/dark faces.

What do you detest about it so much?
Why all the hate?
Please list and God willing I will try to explain

First I dont hate you or anyone else for being Muslim. Second I find it quite incredible that anyone could take the issue of monkeys shaving seriously and thats why I made a joke, admittedly near the knuckle if you have a sense of humour bypass, but obviously a joke. I will ignore your references to my parentage and background, suffice it to say my mother died from Alzheimers disease in May this year aged 89.



So yes I have a downer on Islam. Its a set of ideas which overall does more harm than good. The world would be better off without it, but if we cant eradicate it we have to reform it, and engaging in robust debate is part of that process, even if it upsets the finer sensibilites of the religious mind.

Sorry to hear about your mother.

abid wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:

I oppose Islam because I find many of its strictures thoroughly detestable, not because many of its followers tend to have brown/dark faces.

What do you detest about it so much?
Why all the hate?
Please list and God willing I will try to explain

First I don't hate you or anyone else for being Muslim. Second I find it quite incredible that anyone could take the issue of monkeys shaving seriously and thats why I made a joke, admittedly near the knuckle if you have a sense of humour bypass, but obviously a joke. I will ignore your references to my parentage and background, suffice it to say my mother died from Alzheimers disease in May this year aged 89.

You ask what I dislike about Islam.

I believe all organised religions to be manifestations of a cultural meme, a harmful and wasteful by product of evolutionary forces - about which I confess to be no expert. [But I can read, and I can think]. Religion should be between the individual and his conception of divinity if he has one, not a public excercise in piety conducted by imans priests or rabbis who dishonestly claim a greater knowledge about that which cannot be known.

I'm not into cultural relativism. I believe some ideas really are bad. Sacrificing children to appease the Sun God is a bad idea. Punishing someone for being what they are is a bad idea. We have moved on and left behind a whole range of gods and goddesses, spirits angels ghosts things that go bump in the night because (and here I will resist the temptation to say thank God) we use our intellect and our ingenuity to actually discover how the world works.

The world is not flat. Irrigation canals are better than dancing.

My specific dislike of Islam is its intolerance and its arrogance. It stems from your insistance that Mohammed was the last prophet of God who through Gabriel gave him his perfect final and unchanging word. Anyone who takes 5 minutes to read about the history of Islam and how it developed (as opposed to what Islam says about itself) will soon come to the conclusion that it is founded in myth and legend, no better than many other religions.

However, more than just about any other religion I can think of, Islam insists on a monopoly of truth. This would be bad enough if it was in defense of a scientific orthodoxy, but in defense of a myth it is ludicrous. Islam brooks no opposition, how can it when it has the final word of God in a book? It is this fundamental assertion of being right, of not accepting that other religions might have some truth within them which turns me off Islam completely.

[It might be worth pointing out here that the oldest copy of the Koran dates from centuries after Mohammed's death. If there was an oral tradition, why did the scribes write down his words? And what happened to all those written fragments? Did they throw away the "perfect word of God" once memorised? It makes no sense even within the terms of Islamic tradition itself]

Specifically why I dislike Islam

Its disgraceful discrimination against women
Cruelty in slaughtering animals
The barbaric practise of mutiliating the genitalia of children.
Islamic "education" amounting to nothing more than child abuse.
Intolerance of homosexuality
Polygamy
Whipping scourging and cutting the body as an act of devotion
Ridiculous rules about clothing, diet, washing, going to the toilet etc etc.
Rejection of Darwinian evolution and cosmology.

In particular I dont like the way political islamists have exploited religion in the armed struggle for control of the worlds oil.

Who but a **** for brains religious fanatic could believe they were doing gods will by putting bombs on London transport? (And killing a woman who lived not far from here, on her way to work...for the Boy Scouts Association). What other motive than Islamic indoctrination would inspire those boys with inducements of virgins in paradise? [or grapes according to Ibn Warriq ]

So yes I have a downer on Islam. Its a set of ideas which overall does more harm than good. The world would be better off without it, but if we cant eradicate it we have to reform it, and engaging in robust debate is part of that process, even if it upsets the finer sensibilites of the religious mind.

will respond later abid

Steve,

Quote:

will respond later abid

.....I like that "later" ...you are wondering how to get down to that level

(Some great stuff there though...."Polygamy prevents cheating"....straight rationalization of alpha-male animal behaviour ....I can hear Darwin laughing all the way to the bank !)

I can hear him screaming all the way to Hell.

Organised religions have bought much benefit to the world although this may be something your not willing to accept. amongst these things are:

Anti-Racism
Brotherhood
Moral values
discipline
Ethics
Hygiene
Humility

Yes we know how the world works, and the more closely we study it the more we realize that it could not have been a random chain of
events that allowed life to just occur on its own

Im going around in circles here but i'll say it again
If we were created, what was the purpose?

you're right, sacrificing children for a 'sun' god is bad, when Islam first came, people used to bury their newborn daughters alive!!
But you're assumption that we are leaving behind the idea's of spirits etc. is absurd etc, because last time I checked more and more people are
reverting to Islam.

this is bad and that is bad - You assume to think you know whats best for humanity? Dont you think that God knows best?

The world is not flat. it is oval as stated in the Quran 1400 years ago when they did think the earth was flat.
"And we have made the earth egg shaped". [Al-Quran 79:30]

Islam is intolerant of other religions, but i guess you have to belief in a creator to have any chance of understanding this in the first place
because of you understand there is a God, then you must realise that he would have given a guidance to mankind. its up to you to realise which is right
(which is why you have been given a brain)

Who said that we state other religions have no truth? Islam affirms all the prophets of God that came before Mohammed (saw) there were thousands of prophet's
check it out - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam
we believe in the original Zabur (Psalms of David), scrolls of Abraham, Torah of Moses, Injeel (Gospel) of Christ. we affirm the original teachings (worship one God)

Taking 5 minutes to discover Islams history by who's authority? bias websites on both sides wont help. Why not look at what independent historians have said
(i wont bother pasting them again as I have already done so on many occasions.)

We've already covered your misconceptions and doubt about the Qurans authenticity suffice to say BBC covered the story - It was written 19 years after the Phrophet's (saw) death by
a companion (someone who actually knew the prophet).
Ive already stated that if thousands of people memorized it, then you cannot logically assume that it would be corrupted (especially when they were in different pars of Arabia)

Artifacts are lost in time all the time...

who knows there maybe families in Arabia with these airlooms in their home who wont come forward due to risk of loosing them

Same old misconceptions
Disgraceful treatment of women
Tut, tut - Islam was first religion to allow women to inherit, marry a spouse of their choice.
States of women was elevated in Islam
Mother of chaldean is very important in Islam
Protected from corruption (cover up to protect their modesty)
Islam makes life easy on them

Cruelty in slaughtering animals
Really?
http://www.islamonline.net/English/Science/2003/02/article01.shtml

The barbaric practice of mutilating genitalia
Something Jews do aswell and christians had removed from their scriptures at the time of its 'revision' by Romans
Act of worship
Act of cleanliness

Intolerance of Homosexuality
I had a feeling you would disagree with this one.!!!
Well your the evolutionist, you tell me when two men or two women will evolve into having kids of their own...
Take your time.
Condemed by all faiths i think
Disgusting act - Bringer of disease

Polygamy
Prevents cheating
More women than men on the earth
Many men die from war etc.

Whipping body
Not part of Islam and neither are Shia's

Rules about clothing, diet etc.
Not ridiculous
Islam is a complete way of life and encompasses and includes everything

Rejection of Darwinism
Too right!!!!
Survival of the fittest?? - um - Kind of like saying superior race will rule the rest.
Did you know the belief was that the arian race was more evolved than the rest??
Hitlers book title was 'My struggle' - Work it out

We've been over the political aspect and there are nutters in all warps of life all over the world
So atheists are bad because there are soo many serial killers, cannibals peodophiles etc??

The world is not flat. it is oval as stated in the Quran 1400 years ago when they did think the earth was flat.
"And we have made the earth egg shaped". [Al-Quran 79:30]

The above verse reads:

Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha

It means (word by word):

And the Earth after that was spread.

Hear are the three famous translations.

079.030
YUSUFALI: And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
PICKTHAL: And after that He spread the earth,
SHAKIR: And the earth, He expanded it after that.

Egg in Arabic is "al baiza". There is no similarity between the two words.

In Surah 78: 6 it says:

Alam najAAali al-arda mihadan

Meaning:

Have we not made the earth like a bed?

078.006
YUSUFALI: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,
PICKTHAL: Have We not made the earth an expanse,
SHAKIR: Have We not made the earth an even expanse?

Arabs used to spread their mattresses (beds) on the floor and sleep on it during the night. In the above verse Muhammad is comparing the Earth to a bed (Mihad) which is spread out. Therefore the translation of the three most reliable interpreters of Quran is correct.

I think this "egg story" is one of the lies of Rashad Khalifa. I heard that from other submitters. Even so, Earth is not like an egg and an egg is not spherical.

Muslims are just desperate to fool themselves and any lie will do.

Whipping body
Not part of Islam and neither are Shia's

You dont have to be a ??????? (insert religion of choice here) to live a decent life. Many people would argue that religions have increased divisions between peoples and brought strife and suffering, not brotherhood. I'll grant that you have to be religious to keep praising God, what I would like to know is does he ever listen or do anything in return? And how many prayers have been said for the destruction of an enemy?

You obviously know nothing about evolution. It wasnt chance. But that doesnt imply it was designed either. The natural world might look as if it were designed but its come about as a result of billions of years of evolution. That together with the anthropic principle, that the world/universe is as it is otherwise we would not be here to observe it, is a much better explanation than throwing one's hands in the air... effectively giving up...and saying "We dont know, therefore God did it". [Following the religious line of argument leads to an infinite regression. Who created the creator? The simple answer of course is that man created god, and ascribed to him a lot of the base and unpleasant characteristics of human beings].

Interesting you use that word 'revert' again. It gives a hint of the arrogance and intolerance of Islam.

We all have a natural sense of what is good and bad for us. I cant argue with "God knows best" because that's how you define God. If god really does know best, he has a strange way of showing it sometimes.

Just looking at my globe and it appears more spherical than egg shaped. The ancient Greeks knew the world was spherical. The Koran was not written 1400 years ago.

I dont understand this. You admit Islam is intolerant of other religions yet seem to claim Judaism and Christianity as part of Islam. As you know very well, Christianity and Islam are completely incompatible to the religious mind. It is the non-believers who have tolerated various dangerous superstitions for too long imo.

It is you who offers links to biased Islamist websites. I refer to the work done by John Wansbrough, Michael Cook, Patricia Crone, Andrew Rippin and Gerald Hawting at the University of London's School of Oriental and African studies in the 1970's.

The BBC was only recounting the traditional story of the origin of the Koran...as told by Muslims. As for thousands of people memorising a whole book...I would have thought that a perfect recipe for corruption.

What even the Original Words of God as given to Mohammed? After the scribes had written them down on pieces of pottery, bone etc etc. dont you think at least Mohammed would want to keep them, as an aide memoire if nothing else? Its well known that Mohammed had a temper. I wouldn't like to be the scribe who lost the piece of bone with a particularly complicated bit of god's revealed will written on it.

Islam might have been an improvement in the lives of women then, it discriminates and represses women now.

Whoever does it, unless for strict medical requirements, its wrong. And for girls its illegal, although it doesnt stop thousands of Muslim girls being sent to "an uncle in Bradford" or somesuch- to the shame of the medical profession who know it goes on but dont speak out against it.

Just another example of a medieval mindset.

This is silly, I'm regretting replying now.

WELL STOP THEM DOING IT THEN IF ITS UN ISLAMIC

Women's Islamic dress code is unnecessary (even within Islam) its impractical, ugly, and gives offence. It inhibits the wearer from doing her job or from carrying out a whole range of tasks.

This is not why Muslims reject Darwinism. Muslims are quite content believing in their own superiority, look at attitudes to Afro-carribean blacks for example or non muslims...kuffrs I believe you call us. You dare not study Darwinism and evolution because it gives a much better rational explanation of how the world works than the simple ideas in the Koran.

I have never said Muslims are bad people. I say some ideas are bad, like the idea that a short cut to paradise is to become a jihadist. That bad idea is religious and unfortunately for you, specifically Islamic.