WHY ISLAM IS BECOMING THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION..Serious

Paganism

Eorl wrote:

Sadly, they won't find out anything when they die, as the abilty to find things out will be lost at the point of death.

yeah
because not people in the world are Pagans(atheist)..

We created ourselves..
We kill ourselves..

Maybe, because we don't like the world Laughing

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Re: Paganism

dalahow2 wrote:

Eorl wrote:
Sadly, they won't find out anything when they die, as the abilty to find things out will be lost at the point of death.

yeah
because not people in the world are Pagans(atheist)..

We created ourselves..
We kill ourselves..

Maybe, because we don't like the world

Sorry dal, I don't understand (I assume a typo or English problem?).

Are you saying there are not many atheists and therefore my point is unimportant?

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why is islam becoming the worlds fastest growing religion serious?

i have no ****ing idea

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Hey Steve,

I have an idea why. Because if you look at all the religions out there, there is nothing which has the same aqeedah (belief) that Islam does. Thats what I believe primarily seperates Islam from all other religions. You see the core aqeedah of Islam is that there is only One perfect Creator of this universe and this Creator is not male or female. Nor does this Creator ever come into His creation as a "son" or "object" or whatever form. And that this Creator has sent us prophets from time to time, telling us how to communicate with the Creator. And that the purpose of us humans is to worship the Creator. All these beliefs are very simple, and I believe most people already believe this. Thats why I believe Islam is so easy to turn to. I mean seriously, isnt that simple? Only one creator of this universe and He is the only one worthy of worship; no man, no idol, no intermediates. The very definition of the word Islam is to submit oneself to the one and only Creator. For the people who converted/reverted to Islam, they probably already believed this and now they finally see a fit way to fulfill that desire to worship that Creator.

Just my personal thoughts Steve.

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QKid wrote:

Hey Steve,

I have an idea why. Because if you look at all the religions out there, there is nothing which has the same aqeedah (belief) that Islam does. Thats what I believe primarily seperates Islam from all other religions. You see the core aqeedah of Islam is that there is only One perfect Creator of this universe and this Creator is not male or female. Nor does this Creator ever come into His creation as a "son" or "object" or whatever form. And that this Creator has sent us prophets from time to time, telling us how to communicate with the Creator. And that the purpose of us humans is to worship the Creator. All these beliefs are very simple, and I believe most people already believe this. Thats why I believe Islam is so easy to turn to. I mean seriously, isnt that simple? Only one creator of this universe and He is the only one worthy of worship; no man, no idol, no intermediates. The very definition of the word Islam is to submit oneself to the one and only Creator. For the people who converted/reverted to Islam, they probably already believed this and now they finally see a fit way to fulfill that desire to worship that Creator.

Just my personal thoughts Steve.

So, what is sin?

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Why would a being so powerful as to be able to create this vast and complex cosmos be so petty as to create creatures for the sole purpose of worshipping said deity? That's a puerile and silly object for a human being, never mind a putative deity.

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Setanta,

Thank you for your opinion but that is just it, its your personal opinion. Just like how I wrote that was my personal opinion. But Islam is the fastest growing religion, that shows those who converted/reverted to Islam would disagree with your opinion wouldnt it? I guess they dont feel that it is "a silly object of the human being" to worship the creator of the universe. On the other hand you do.

Neologist,

A sin is when you disobey one of the commandments of your Lord/Creator/Sustainer.

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Qkid, it is more likely that those converting to Islam don't have either the mental capacity, or the psychological maturity to understand Setanta's point. If the claim were just for "equality" by "believers" it would merely be facile. The more usual claim to "superiority" is actually dangerous. The current air security situation is conclusive evidence for that.

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Fresco,

If your statements were true, then there wouldnt be a thread titled "Why Islam is becoming the fastest growing religion", would there? Again, this title is true, and you are just presenting your opinions by bashing those who turn to Islam. I hope you realized that. Is that why people with PhD's who should have the "mental capacity and psycological maturity" as you claimed turn to Islam as well? Instead of bashing people who choose their direction in life, why not learn to accept that people with mental capacity and psycological maturity turn to Islam? The fact remains that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

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QKid wrote:

Setanta,

Thank you for your opinion but that is just it, its your personal opinion. Just like how I wrote that was my personal opinion. But Islam is the fastest growing religion, that shows those who converted/reverted to Islam would disagree with your opinion wouldnt it? I guess they dont feel that it is "a silly object of the human being" to worship the creator of the universe. On the other hand you do.

Neologist,

A sin is when you disobey one of the commandments of your Lord/Creator/Sustainer.

Were Adam and Eve created perfect?

If so, how could they sin?

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Qkid,

Joseph Goebbels had a piece of paper with "Ph.D". written on it !

When Islamicists cease interfering with the lives of others, or killing each other over trivialities of doctrine they can lay claim to psychological maturity.

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QKid wrote:

Setanta,

Thank you for your opinion but that is just it, its your personal opinion. Just like how I wrote that was my personal opinion. But Islam is the fastest growing religion, that shows those who converted/reverted to Islam would disagree with your opinion wouldnt it? I guess they dont feel that it is "a silly object of the human being" to worship the creator of the universe. On the other hand you do.

Not to put too fine a point on it, horseshit.

I didn't express an opinion about your cartoon character god, revealed to you by a dead-beat illiterate whose lust was sufficiently ungovernable to lead him to matrimonially rape a nine-year old girl. Basically, you're peddling a suspect story from a suspect source, and entailing implausible premises. You have side-stepped rather than answered the question of why any being powerful enough to create a cosmos would want to be worshipped by motes of impuissance such as are human beings in comparison to the cosmos.

I expressed the opinion that such behavior would be puerile in a human, never mind a deity. I didn't claim that worshipping a diety would be silly--which demonstrates the extent to which you don't understand simple English epxression--which is neither my fault nor my problem.

You claim that Islam is the fastest growing religion, but have no proof that this is so. In large measure such a contention relies upon the assumption that everyone in a Muslim nation is a faithful believer, when apostasy is punishable by death. It also speaks as though Islam is monolithic--which it is not. You have Sunnis and Shi'ites, and the Druze, who claim to be Muslim, while other Muslims deny this. The Shi'ites are divided into different sects, as are the Sunnis. Your happy horse-**** speil about Islam may be comforting to you, but it is far from reality, and you've offered no proof. Even were it so, it would not mean much, given that for most of human history, it appears that most people believed the world to be flat--and that's not a good reason to agree with them.

But my question stands--why should anyone believe that any being that powerful would have the need or the desire to be worshipped? You haven't answered it because you refuse to question basick premises.

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Yeah, Set. What you said.

Mostly.

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Insignificance
Setana,

You miss the point. The point is not why God would wish to be worshipped, but why we would worship God. Now we know intellectually that as physical objects, our entire solar system and virtually everything we physically experience is to the Universe no more significant than a single grain of sand is to the earth. And any religious dogma or doctrine that requires the denial of this (and many other humanocentric) truths cannot hope to stand intellectually.

But this does not change Man's need to believe. This need is based not on the various dogmas of rational/scientific thought which have been prevelant in Western thinking for 300 years or so (and have born incredibly plentiful material fruits beyond the wildest dreams of the early rationalist believers), but rather Man's need to believe is closer to his need (and self-evident ability) to experience beauty, security, consolation, happiness, right and wrong - all philosophical, psycological or even religious subjects that rational science has very little to contribute to. The best that rational science appears able to do is to tear down belief sets that *do* have deep and insightful things to say about these aspects of human experience. But it can put nothing at all satisfactory in their place...

The societies and states of the West have moved away from a Christian God-based reason for moral behaviour to a completely awful humanist one based largely on self-determination, individual freedom, self-empowerment, individual human rights, and the like. Those who look upon its consequences (and not its tennents, which may appear noble) and believe the fruits of this change to be little more than the moral equivalent of Chapter 11, if not full bankruptcy, will be attracted, inexorably, to doctrines that provide what are to them better answers to the organsation of human communities. Like the religions used to do...

If this is true, then the "Christian" West's humanist ethics are open to religious attack from various sources just as Rome's pragmatically secular Gods and Godesses (and associated moral code) fell to Christianity. And we must also remember that in a world with just one superpower, there is also a political void into which radical Islam speaks its siren voice of hatred and glory. All these things make me agree that Islam's stock is, for better or for worse, on the rise in this world. For now.

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I didn't miss anything. The major Abrahamic religions peddle the story about the deity being worshipped for eternity by the "faithful" who are "saved." I didn't make that up, and if you assert i had missed the point because it was made up by fallible people, then you have missed the point that such a claim consitutes a good basis for rejecting all parts of the story, not just the one about worshipping the deity.

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Setanta wrote:

I didn't miss anything. The major Abrahamic religions peddle the story about the deity being worshipped for eternity by the "faithful" who are "saved." I didn't make that up, and if you assert i had missed the point because it was made up by fallible people, then you have missed the point that such a claim consitutes a good basis for rejecting all parts of the story, not just the one about worshipping the deity.

Agreed, as a truthful account of creation it compares unfavourably to accounts of Father Christmas, sightings of Elvis on Mars, and other faery tales. It is self-evidently (to the rational enquirer) the product of Man's yearning for something to worship. And *that* is the point.

Why would Man yearn so much for a God? Scientific rationalists say "to explain otherwise unexplicable events (now beter described by science), to give a root cause of existence (now better explained by science), to control the uncontrollable (now better explained by science)". What these rationalists miss, or fail to explain, are Abrahamic religion's main subject matter which relate to the concepts required to organise that most uniquely human of artifacts - heterogenous community. Concepts like "salvation", "guilt", "honour", "right", "wrong", "justice", "peace", "happiness", "love", "retribution" to name but a few. All concepts undeniably deeply felt, even by the atheist, unaddressed by science, inadequately addressed by humanistic belief sets, and still concepts for which the great religions of this world have a near-monopoly of satisfactory answers.

So, what is more important? To accurately explain the insignificance of our existence, which the ancients clearly failed to do, or to accurately describe/explain the significance of ourselves, which I would suggest the ancients did a better job of than we give them credit for? *That* is the set of truths contained in these Books, truths that we have no reason to doubt, truths that form the rational reason for why people might believe.

So you missed the point :-)

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Not quite galois,

Your extra features you say are covered by religion are still attempts at "control formulae", but this time for the behaviour of individuals and groups. Simplistic religion is about "the big controller in the sky". It is a catch-all modus to cover issues that laymen mistakenly think science fails to study.

In fact "science" has moved on from the study of linear causal systems to non-linear ones formalized in terms of fractals and chaos theory. These provide viable models for the spontaneous origin of life and the workings of communities. This in turn has had an effect on epistemology and what constitutes a "satisfactory explanation".

The "rise of Islam" should IMO be seen as simplistic reaction to the spread (via global communication) of alternative attitudes to social control. Such attitudes may not be fuelled directly by "the new science" but some of its psychological nuances like the rise of "probability theory" over "certainty" will have had some effect. Indeed the very concepts of "truth" and "self" have been opened up to negotiation thereby providing an antithesis to some of the traditional axioms of religion.

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fresco wrote:

In fact "science" has moved on from the study of linear causal systems to non-linear ones which include fractals and chaos theory. These provide viable models for the spontaneous origin of life and the workings of communities. This in turn has had an effect on epistemology and what constitutes a "satisfactory explanation".

So? Fluid dynamics provides an adequate explanation for crowd behaviours that lead to deaths like in sports stadiums like happened in Hillsborough. This allows us to build stadiums that are safer. This is good. It is not, however, a "satisfactory" explanation on an emotional level. It does not explain the fear, panic or pain felt by those in the middle experiencing such a catastrophe. It does not explain the guilt that many survivors felt afterwards. It does not console the bereaved or explain the group mourning that followed, or the feelings of community evidenced in disaster's wake, some of which is still felt strongly to this day. Nuff said.

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...of course....hence the function of religion as an opiate and a palliative.

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No, Galois, i missed nothing, and it seems more apparent to me that you just used my post as a springboard to preen your ego on your "understanding" of humanity. My point, and my only point, was to show the absurdity of the deity reputed to exist in the Abrahamic myths. I was making no other point, and i didn't miss a trick, there. You just showed up and wanted to use my post as a basis to make what i'm sure you consider "profound" observations on human nature.

And i haven't missed that "point" of yours, either--and i don't buy it. Fearful and ignorant people may be consoled by such fairy stories; priesthoods with a stake in asserting that they have, or have access to, all the answers may profit from such fairy stories. However, you have no basis for asserting that all people at all times have such a need to fulfill. More than two thousand years ago, Cicero wrote: When you see a sundial or a water-clock, you see that it tells the time by design and not by chance. How then can you imagine that the universe as a whole is devoid of purpose and intelligence, when it embraces everything, including these artifacts themselves and their artificers? That was written in De natura deorum--On the Nature of the Gods. Cicero would not have been obliged to write a defense of theism if it were not questioned. Although one might reasonably assert that the majority of people are sufficiently hag-ridden by ignorance, fear and superstition as to be consoled by poofism, that is not a sufficient basis to attempt to assert that it is a need foundational to the human character.

You're missing points all over the map.

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WHY ISLAM IS BECOMING THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION..Serious

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