sozobe wrote:Chai, have you noticed the title of the thread?
Does that seem to indicate that FreeDuck thinks that what she was doing was a good thing?
soz, I really wish you would let freeduck speak for herself....I kinda indicated that in my last post, did you not notice?
I don't think I've addressed you directly.
I think I have spoken for myself, Chai. It's a public forum and a thread that's open to all. You're free to respond to me, she's free to respond to you.
That is true, however, I can hear you quite well without someones interpretation.....
Personally, I don't think I ever post to anyone trying to explain what someone else was trying to say. I wouldn't like that because I can speak for myself as well.
You know freeduckI was starting to think I must be crazy. So I showed this to a woman I work with that has raised 2 sons and a daughter, 2 lawyers and a teacher. The reason I did this is because frankly, if you were going to need a model for family values, it would be this family. She worked as a teacher early in her life, then became an RN, working for a while at a pediatricians office before entering the dialysis field. She is pretty much the epitome of motherhood, and her husband is the same for fatherhood.
She read it through, and after she actually teared up and had to pull a tissue out also. And it wasn't because of my posts, it was because of yours. She read everything through, with increasing interest, and at the end looked up and said
."This woman is so off base
.her 4 year old IS still a baby, and is too young to be exposed to making these kinds of commitments.
You may say this isn't true, but I really do feel you don't give creadance to anything I say, since I'm not a mother
.Seriously though, this woman that read through this is the person you would want to come to for advice.
I apologize I got hot
.It is so frustrating to be discounted before even getting out of the gate
.I reread your posts, and I still don't see anywhere where you've said you're taking your daughter out of soccer. You don't have to point it out to me, if you say it's there I believe it must be.
I don't even know why this thread has gone on so long, person after person has expressed the same thing.
I only have one question
and again, I'm using your words
are you going to continue to force her to play soccer? Or, in my words, are you going to let her be a little girl and dance
if you say you don't know, I won't be able to continue to read this thread
.it's just too upsetting to think about.
Chai, I'm another that doesn't take it the same way you do. FD's frustrated and a little angry, but she isn't taking it out on her little girl, and she isn't some inflexible, rule-following Nazi.
DrewDad wrote:Chai, I'm another that doesn't take it the same way you do. FD's frustrated and a little angry, but she isn't taking it out on her little girl, and she isn't some inflexible, rule-following Nazi.
Well then, she shouldn't have written such a strong initial post, talking about force and anger.
But, I'll let freeduck speak for herself. Thanks for your drewdad input tho.
I'll add that you don't know, Chai, that Free Duck showed her frustration and incipient anger to her daughter; she was sharing it here, where she feels welcome, and is welcome, to do that.
I also have to pipe up that you appear extra sensitive about not being a mother and that people keep discounting your opinions because of that. I've never noticed that and I've read many if not most of these type of threads, including where you've claimed you are repeatedly discounted for not being a mother. I too am not a mother and I don't remember feeling discounted personally at all, much less for that reason.
exactly.
In fact, what i got from freeducks posts is quite simple-
" she wants her daughter to try soccer. She didnt like soccer. So she is taking her out, but still has , quite normal feelings, of dissappointment and a little frustration because her daughter didnt give it a chance"
and what i see is that she is simply venting.. wich we all need to do... and not fueling her soccer decision.
As a parent, it is VERY frustrating when you think you have figured out the perfect activity for your little one , only to have them kick it away.
it is like shopping for the perfect present for someone , only to have them look at you and ask for a gift receipt
Chai Tea wrote:You may say this isn't true, but I really do feel you don't give creadance to anything I say, since I'm not a mother
.
You keep saying this. I gave credence to your first post. The subsequent ones seemed to relate more to your own history which, to me, had nothing to do with this situation. I thought I explained pretty well why this situation was not what you seemed to think it was. I have many childless friends and siblings and I value their perspectives and have gotten many pearls of wisdom from them.
Chai wrote:I apologize I got hot
.It is so frustrating to be discounted before even getting out of the gate
.
No, I let you get pretty far out of the gate before I discounted your take on it.
Chai wrote:I reread your posts, and I still don't see anywhere where you've said you're taking your daughter out of soccer. You don't have to point it out to me, if you say it's there I believe it must be.
FreeDuck wrote:I think it makes sense to only make them continue if they picked it. In this case, since she didn't pick it, I think I will let her quit.
I'm going to guess that because I used the word "think" you are not satisfied.
Chai wrote:I only have one question
and again, I'm using your words
are you going to continue to force her to play soccer? Or, in my words, are you going to let her be a little girl and dance
if you say you don't know, I won't be able to continue to read this thread
.it's just too upsetting to think about.
And here, I'm going to show you where my daughter gets it. I am not required to answer your interrogation. I'm not accountable to you for my decision. If you'd read any other posts besides the ones between the two of us, you'd have some inkling of it already.
I have to admit, the initial post/scenario kind of concerned me, too. I well recall being pushed to take ballet, and absolutely hating it. I think I was about 5, was able to quit maybe a year into it. I don't regret it, didn't regret it and the truth is I'm not a big fan of ballet, anyway.
And, I'm not a competitive person and not much into team sports. Best/most committed I think I ever was in a team sport, was volleyball. So that might be what's going on, just differing philosophies. Perhaps that's a lot to attribute to a 4-year-old, but it may very well be that she's just not into competing. I'm still not, and I'm 39 years older than that.
I'm glad you have no problem with her quitting. Perhaps she'll be interested in something else, maybe something less team- or watch me watch me-oriented? Swimming, perhaps?
gymnastics?
Im giving Bean a class for her 2nd b-day.
All of the classes I have seen have been for 2-5 and they really seem to love it.
They even 'compete'
cute as a bug in a rug
DrewDad wrote:Chai, I'm another that doesn't take it the same way you do. FD's frustrated and a little angry, but she isn't taking it out on her little girl, and she isn't some inflexible, rule-following Nazi.
Thanks for that DD. I'll add that I was also at a loss for what to do about it, realizing that it couldn't keep on the way it was but not sure if it would be ok to let her quit. You guys helped me to sort through that.
ossobuco wrote:I'll add that you don't know, Chai, that Free Duck showed her frustration and incipient anger to her daughter; she was sharing it here, where she feels welcome, and is welcome, to do that.
It's true that I tried to hide the anger but I'm pretty sure she picks up on the disappointment at least. That's where the guilt comes from. I've certainly never let loose on her with the things I've said here. And I appreciate having this place to do it.
shewolfnm wrote:In fact, what i got from freeducks posts is quite simple-
" she wants her daughter to try soccer. She didnt like soccer. So she is taking her out, but still has , quite normal feelings, of dissappointment and a little frustration because her daughter didnt give it a chance"
That's pretty much it, though I realize that I wasn't very clear about the timing of it all. She's had two games. During the games, I get frustrated and angry when she balls up and refuses to play. I don't like that feeling and I don't (didn't) know where it comes from. I don't remain angry after the games. After the second game, I started wondering whether it was a good idea to continue and confronting the fact that the dynamic didn't feel healthy. You guys have all been helpful in letting me vent long enough to figure it out. J_B even gave me the out I was looking for -- that it's ok to quit if it's something she didn't choose. It seems like an obvious thing but it wasn't to me.
Quote: I don't like that feeling and I don't (didn't) know where it comes from
from wanting everything to be perfect for your perfect little girl. ;-)
FreeDuck wrote:No cheerleading, eh? Did she say why, or did something else catch her fancy?
I'm actually ok with the cheerleading and dancing, I just want her to do soccer, or some other team sport too. I just think she can learn so much from it. But I don't know why it makes me angry that she won't try. She's only 4, it's no big deal. There are other kids who do the same thing. It's just that she really IS an aggressive girl, and fearless. So I expected her just to go out there and take over. And now, two games into the season, I don't know if I should let her quit or make her keep putting the gear on and going, even if it is just to watch.
You know, FreeDuck, she'll never like it if you push it on her. Instead, she may very well wind up with a dread of it. If the season isn't too long I'd see if she would come around a bit to finish it up...but one thing I offer: don't push her too much to be excited about it; let her voice why she doesn't like it; give her an opportunity to be shy and hold back. My 4.5 year old, who is quite outspoken and a leader at school also gets a case of shyness every morning before school. She loves school; she is a standout. But the entry in the morning just takes her back. Her best friends come running up to her and she tells them to go away. But inside 30 seconds once she's been able to enter on her own terms and she's good.
It may also just be the newness of the team sport concept, which is another reason not to push and to let her say it's scary or she doesn't like it. My same daughter was apprehensive when she started swimming, but now she wants to go everyday.
jespah wrote:I'm glad you have no problem with her quitting. Perhaps she'll be interested in something else, maybe something less team- or watch me watch me-oriented? Swimming, perhaps?
She likes to swim -- that's something we do as a family. She also just loves to run which is something she can do any time she's given the opportunity (maybe at her brother's soccer games). Shewolf mentioned gymnastics. She has done gymnastics at the Y during parent's night out and she loves it. I'm planning to sign her up for that one when the next session starts next month. Her cousin and her brother want to do it too so they'll get to do it together.
There's no shortage of things that she's interested in, I was just hoping she would add soccer to that list. But she probably knows that. It could also be that she does have a differing philosophy or rather disposition about sports. That's kind of what I'm trying to figure out.
Thanks, mysterygirl. Your daughter sounds a lot like my daughter.
Maybe those of us ('cause I've been reading along silently) who thought it sounded like kind of a lot to push on a four-year-old just didn't realize that it was only two games. That seems like a perfectly reasonable amount of trying from both points of view-- not too much for her to handle, but not immediately giving up either.
I was one of THEM, too.
Hermione just wouldn't do any team sport.
I tried and tried and tried to find one she would do.
No soap.
Beg, cajole, encourage.
Nope.
Never did. Still won't.
She's 23 now, so I've finally given up.
Thanks, George. But if I remember correctly, she's quite a wonderful girl, so all is not lost.
Cyphercat, yeah, I think I was a little too long on the venting and too short on the details initially.
FreeDuck wrote:Thanks, mysterygirl. Your daughter sounds a lot like my daughter.
You know, it may be hard to see her be one of "those kids" who's hanging back, but I do truly believe you have to let them be themselves. Yes, guidance, and yes, finishing commitments, and yes, getting them to stretch their comfort zones a bit. But ultimately, what's so beautiful about children is watching them grow and develop into their own beings, an dheloping them be comfort in whatever those beings are.
...I have 2 main middle/high-school aged sitters for my children. One is a stunning beauty, tall, athletic, outgoing. The other probably gets noticed for her looks less, spends her time looking at the sky and reading, singing in a choir, seemingly quieter. Both of those girls are comfortable and confident and happy with themselves. They are both going to have terrific lives, even though their interests and styles are so different. Both seem well adjusted...just adjusted to their own frequencies. :-)
Probably.
