God help me, I'm one of THEM

FreeDuck wrote:

I'm just so afraid that she'll think of herself in terms of the more girly sports and never find out about the others. .

now how is that possible when she is surrounded by soccer lovers?

Top it off with 30+ children in her class and you think NONE of them will EVER even say anything about football that would appeal to her? Or soccer? Or track?
hehehe
She will be fine.

On a 2 year old level, Im doing the exact same thing to Jillian.
She has more drums / shakers/ xylophone style musical instruments then any child should have. ANd I am constantly sitting down and playing these wee things trying to get her attention. I am hell bent on her liking music...

and have been .. for 6 months.

all by myself... Confused

I agree with chai, dont 'make' her.. but I absolutely see your reasoning and I agree with it. Young kids exposed to a variety of things, turn out to have a variety of good interests as an adult.

Was it free? What about other classes? Can you.. reasonably.. start her in a new class every 3-4 weeks?
Soccer, basketball.. ( if they have hoops that small) kiddie football, kick ball..
and just give her a summertime of rotation and see wich one sticks to her? Maybe she truly doesn't like the idea of soccer

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Just found the thread, FD.

It's perfectly OK to be frustrated and angry with ducklet; you're entitled to your feelings. Personally, I hate it when I'm angry with Yaya 'cause I know she's just being her little self.

And I understand perfectly the frustration associated with having to completely undo a plan when it doesn't work out the way you had it mapped out in your head.

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nimh wrote:

... and I mean, of course I know you kind of realise it too, otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread - but I'm only pointing it out again because this is how you argue why you would or be right to do what you do...

I recognize that, nimh. But understand that the exact argument you quoted wasn't meant to argue that I'm right, but that the actual problem wasn't the one that Chai seemed to think it was.

Quote:

I mean, basically, what I'm saying is - just reading all this makes me tired - and I'm 34, not 4. That is a LOT to be wanting - whether from, or for - a four-year old...

... it just sounds like, even in the face of not wanting to be like "them", there's still a level of (well-intended) ambition and intention and conviction (of what would be good for her to do, not do, try, etc), that would better just be toned down...

But some of this is necessary. My job as a parent is to guide and teach my children. Part of that guiding is figuring out who they are and making sure that they have opportunities. It's the figuring out who they are part that I'm not happy with myself about, where it comes to her anyway. I should just accept that she might be a girly girl and lay off. I don't want to be angry with her for not trying, but in order to do that, I have to figure out why it makes me so angry.

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Thanks for that, DrewDad. I hate being angry about it too. That's why I'm debating whether to continue taking her to the games just to watch or to just bag it all together. She has said that she likes soccer but she doesn't like to play in front of "all the people" -- basically the other parents. I can understand that. I know that if we continue the way we've been going she will not develop a healthy attitude towards sports, and that's not what I want.

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shewolfnm wrote:

Was it free? What about other classes? Can you.. reasonably.. start her in a new class every 3-4 weeks?
Soccer, basketball.. ( if they have hoops that small) kiddie football, kick ball..
and just give her a summertime of rotation and see wich one sticks to her? Maybe she truly doesn't like the idea of soccer

It wasn't free, but that's ok. The Y is really great for these things. Basically, every few months they have something new, all on weekends, for kids of all ages. They do have little peewee basketball hoops and a peewee league. All of their peewee activities are unstructured and designed just to let kids experiment with the idea of basketball/soccer/gymnastics and whatever. And all are very low stress. Usually she jumps into everything with both feet, but I think that she noticed that I care too much about soccer. Either that or she really does just not like other people watching her.

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FreeDuck wrote:

My job as a parent is to guide and teach my children. Part of that guiding is figuring out who they are and making sure that they have opportunities.

<nods>

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Re: God help me, I'm one of THEM

FreeDuck wrote:

I'm forcing my daughter to play soccer and she hates it. She just stands out there with her arms folded and a pouty face. It pisses me off. She loves to kick the ball with her brother and with me, but as soon as she puts the uniform shirt on she balls up into some bizarre alternate personality. She's normally quite boisterous and anything but shy.

Cheerleading and dancing are another story. I knew she liked those things but I was sure she would love soccer too. After all, I love soccer, her brother loves soccer, and her father loves soccer. And she's fast -- very fast. It seems such a waste if she doesn't even try. But her ballet teacher says "her future is obvious" meaning she was born to dance. Even her brother, wiser than I am, says "Mom, maybe soccer just isn't her thing". I just refuse to believe that a 4 year old could possibly know what her "thing" is. I want her to try some team sports. I've turned into one of those parents who can't accept who their child is. I get really angry at her for not even trying and for acting scared (she's never been scared of anything in her life). I'm ashamed of myself. Somebody shoot me.

Freeduck, above is your original post. Read the first sentence. Then read the ones where you write "I refuse to believe that a 4 year old could possibly know what her thing is" and "I've turned into one of those parent who can't accept who their child is. I get really angry at her for not even trying and for acting scared" and "I'm ashamed of myself"

In your last post, you then say that I don't seem to know what the problem is. Well, I'm just reading what you wrote freeduck...I'm not embellishing them or using them out of context.

If you're upset by my comments, that's fine. Maybe you need to be upset by them. You've made subsequent posts trying to explain yourself, but your gut feelings were right in that first post. The explainations are just trying to soften the truth of your original post.

You know, it does really hurt sometimes to talk about my childhood...and a large part of it is because I don't feel deserving to share, because I know many people at one end of the spectrum could say "Well, you think you had it bad, that's nothing compared to what I went through." At the other end of the spectrum is trying not to offend parents who take insult and say "I'm not like that to my child"

But, you know what, the parent is the adult, and has the mental and verbal capacity to say to, for instance, me "Chai, you don't know what you're talking about, you're not a parent, so butt out" In extreme cases, like these neighbors in a duplex I once lived in, while the parents where telling everyone in the world to butt out...all I could see were the eyes of a daughter who was living in misery because she had no idea how to escape her lousy exsistance, and the eyes of a boy who you knew was destined to become just like the parents.

That's not you....I know that....but little children need their loving parents (which you are) to speak for them and be their advocate. If the loving parent can't be turned to because they are the ones causing the child to be where they don't want to be.....who will speak for them?

She's told you she doesn't want to do something...and you said you are mad at that. You don't believe she knows what she likes, you've said that. These are your words, not mine.

Am I overreacting? I'm sure I am in your eyes. Since this thread began though, I don't think anyone has advocated to continue to force her. It's just my words cut to the quick and offend you.

I'd rather offend every person here than see a child feel bad about not being able to be who they are.

I just feel that strongly about it. Children and animals want nothing but to please you, even if it means their happiness.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Usually she jumps into everything with both feet, but I think that she noticed that I care too much about soccer. Either that or she really does just not like other people watching her.

Been reading along, FD. I think the first choice above might be hitting the nail on the head.

Also, agree with the 'only four' sentiment. Give her opportunities but she'll develop into who she is and what she wants regardless of what happens at this age.

The only thing I ever pushed the girls to do was to complete whatever they had signed up for. If they wanted to sign up for soccer, and then decided they hated it, I pushed to complete the season and then left it up to them the next time. We did the same thing with skating (one loved it, one hated it), ballet (both hated it), T-ball (the non-skater loved it, the skater hated it) and horseback riding (avoid unless you want to sink a bunch of money into an activity). Opportunities are good and chances are she'll want to sign up for the things her friends are doing more than what you are pushing. She'll either like it or she won't but she'll eventually find her niche.

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Chai Tea wrote:

Let her dance and jump and gaze at clouds and do things in her way...she's got a lifetime to have to adhere to rules and learning winning is good and loosing is bad and all those other terribly important things that only playing soccer can fulfill.

Chai Tea wrote:

I'm sorry freeduck, but I remember vividly being 4 years old, and it was horrible because of having to, oh God, I don't even know how to say it..... be RESPONSIBLE for something.

Chai Tea wrote:

She's not SUPPOSED to have schedules and goals and plans and worry about playing by rules or what position she is.

Chai Tea wrote:

Why do you want her to grow up so fast?

Chai Tea wrote:

I never got to sit in my mothers lap because she was "too busy" She was "too busy" all my childhood, and figured since she worked so much, I could be the maid. Then, when I wasn't even there anymore, she found the time to talk, and expected to be accomodated.

Chai, when I read these things it seems obvious that you've misinterpreted the actual problem. I don't say that to justify myself or to make me seem right to force her to try something she doesn't want to try. The problem is that there clearly seems to be conflict between who I think she is and who she really is. And I need to sort that out.

But she's not responsible for anything or anyone, she's not a maid, she isn't overscheduled, she's not missing lap time, she's not expected to achieve anything, I'm not "too busy" for her, I'm not trying to teach her anything about winning or losing (there is no score keeping or positions in peewee soccer, and there are certainly other ways to learn that lesson than by playing soccer).

But clearly, I've let my hope that she will enjoy team sports prevent her from actually doing so. I'm owning that I haven't done a good job here. But I'm not going to own your mother's poor job.

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Didn't see you there J_B. I think you are right.

A while back, I forced my son to try gymnastics. He didn't like it and I let him quit. He just tried it again at an informal Y event and he now says he likes it and wants to do it. I think it makes sense to only make them continue if they picked it. In this case, since she didn't pick it, I think I will let her quit.

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Hasn't FreeDuck acknowledged all of that several times over, though?

To me, this is kind of like if, on your thread about teaching computer skills to your husband, people just kept picking up on the venting part and pressing that point. ("Yes, but in your own words, you said that you were about to kill your husband!")

FreeDuck is saying this in the context of how she feels bad about it -- the initial post with your perspective I understand, the rest of it seems like unnecessarily rough piling on, to me.

Us parents are not always perfect, just as us partners are not always perfect. We get to vent about it here now and then without being jumped all over.

To go on to the specifics -- yes, 4-year-olds don't always know what's best for them. <shrug> That's really kind of axiomatic. I've taken sozlet to all kinds of things that she didn't want to go to and then, once we got there, she was fascinated. And there are all kinds of other things that she was crazy to see or do and then once we were there, she was bored silly. Making decisions about all of that is a whole bunch of what parenting is.

Of course we listen, but no, we don't follow every single thing a 4-year-old expresses. That's not actually something that's good for a 4-year-old, developmentally. They need consistency, and direction, and stability. A parent who just followed every whim of a 4-year-old would end up with a very confused and upset 4-year-old.

4-year-olds can and should be respected, sure, and that's really FreeDuck's point here -- she understands that her own preferences are, in this situation, getting in the way of what's best for her kid, and she feels badly about that, and is venting. Same as you expressed frustration with your husband. Not perfect, but not so bad as all that, either.

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FreeDuck wrote:

I think it makes sense to only make them continue if they picked it. In this case, since she didn't pick it, I think I will let her quit.

That makes sense.

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Hmm. Do the other beginning team sports at the Y have uniform shirts?

My own memories include the fear of being watched thing...
I barely knew any other children at all, much less played team sports with any, when I was four or five. I think I met one neighbor child each of those years. I felt strange in what gym classes we had the year my family lived in New York City, grade three for me). I seem to remember trying to get a basketball anywhere near a hoop and being miles off.
The next year we moved to a suburb of Chicago, and suddenly I had neighborhood children to play with after school. Most of the games were things like hopscotch and something called roly-poly, but we also played softball. I was pretty good at it, hitting my share of "home runs".

However, in sixth and seventh grade, we had a nun teach us who was a baseball fan, and every so often she would take the whole class out to the gravel field and set up a baseball game, she being the pitcher. I don't think I ever hit a ball, even as a foul ball, in any of those games - something about the whole class watching made me unrelaxed.

So, from my own meager background, four seems very early to worry about a child connecting to team sports.... but I'm older and in the decades since I was four, much has changed about children's play situations. So, I can see why you care that she would learn, sooner or later, to like playing as part of a team, - first since there seems to be much more emphasis on team sports now, and second, because there are benefits from learning to act as a team, though there are other ways to do that besides sports. Forcing the issue seems counterproductive whatever age a child is, and especially now at four.

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ossobuco wrote:

Hmm. Do the other beginning team sports at the Y have uniform shirts?

They all have shorts to designate teams. At her age it's just that, a shirt, with no number or name. Some parents put their kids' names on them and a number, which is fine, but I'm a cheap ass. The uniform isn't important.

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences. The neighborhood kids playing is my dream scenario for my kids. But right now we're renting an apartment where there aren't really other kids and no places to play. So the only way they get to play with other kids is to go to school and to the Y, which they both love. You all have given me a reality check, though, in the sense that just because she's not taking to THIS team sport at THIS time doesn't mean she won't ever take to any.

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All due respect Soz and Freeduck.but they're some important differences in my rant re my husband and a little girl

First.Soz, if freeduck was just venting, maybe you should let her say that for herself. Freeduck, if that WAS just a vent, you should have said so.

Second - On my frustration at my husband learning about the internet.he is a 59 year old man who has the ability to tell me at any time his interest in something has flaggedhe never did, and it hasn't..We're talking about a 4 year old who TOLD someone she's not interested, and incurred her mothers anger.

Third - freeduck, I'm not asking anyone to own the crappy job my parents did.If the stress I had to go through makes me empathetic to a little girl, that's a good thing.

My husband tells the story of when his daughter was probably about 4 or 5 and a relative (not her mother) insisted she dress a certain way for an event. She wanted her to put on a dress, and Becky just refused. The relative was willing to make everyone late in order to force Becky to dress in a way that she deemed appropriate, and was just starting to tell her she could stay home alone (yeah right, she was 4 or 5) if she didn't put on what she wanted her to.That was about the time her father, my husband walked in.

He told this relative "Becky is not some doll to dress up for your amusement. She can wear whatever she wants and if you don't like it YOU stay here."

I've already said I knew you were a caring parent, I'm not going to repeat myself.

But just reading what you wrote, you've become away that you came on too strong maybe in your first post, and since then have been trying to backtrack.

ButYou were really really pissed when this thread started, and THAT is what your little girl was seeing.

Of course a 4 year old can't make many decisions for herself. I'm not a moron. It's like you think I believe it's got to be one way or the other. I just think it's a pretty good indicator not to make her go back to something she doesn't like, especially if your husband, son, the dance instructor, and I think it's safe to say everyone who has posted thinks that not a cool idea.and what you respond to that is"I think I won't"

This isn't about your little girl, it's about you having the power to make her do what you think is right. That's fine when you don't want her to eat ice cream all day, or stay up until 2am, but YES, a 4 year old can make some decisions.

It's really obvious you're mad at me, and that you think I don't have a clue. I don't care about that. When I read you post yesterday, I felt like I was punched in the gut, and few things effect me that way. You're just mad because you think I'm questioning your parenting skills, and I don't think you expected someone, especially someone with no children to stand up so strongly for her.

If you're going to vent and talk about anger and guilt and then I can cry for a little girl and express my concern and grief. Back up and read your posts as if you had never been here before and this was your first post.

I just can't stand seeing little kids put into positions like this, and I'm not ashamed for speaking out. Outlandlish as it may seem, parents can get food for thought from unexpected sources.

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Chai, have you noticed the title of the thread?

Does that seem to indicate that FreeDuck thinks that what she was doing was a good thing?

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To recap (since I'm about to leave for a bit): it's the piling on/ overkill I object to.

If FreeDuck was saying, "Nah, I'm gonna keep her in there even though she doesn't want to be there," I'd understand why you'd feel the need to do what you're doing.

If FreeDuck was saying, "It's right to keep her in there even though she doesn't want to be, because she needs to [insert reason here]," I'd get it.

But FreeDuck came right out of the gate with a title of "God help me, I'm one of THEM," and in the first post, "I'm ashamed of myself" and "Just shoot me" and has already said she's going to let her daughter quit.

That is when I think it's time to say something like, "Good for you. Meanwhile, that reminds me of when I was a kid..." or "glad you came to your senses. I know some parents who..." You can say whatever you want of course, but you're explicitly directing your "concern and grief" at FreeDuck, and in context, I don't think that's fair.

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Chai, I'm not angry with you, but I'm about done trying to paint the picture any clearer for you. You see it the way you see it.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Chai, I'm not angry with you, but I'm about done trying to paint the picture any clearer for you. You see it the way you see it.

I'm tired of painting the picture for you too quite frankly.

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God help me, I'm one of THEM

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