Is the story of Adam and Even real...or allegory?

Chumly wrote:

RexRed wrote:

I believe they did have navels.

Because I believe they were physically born through evolution.

The only thing God "created" in Eden was his spirit in Adam and Eve... God walked with them. Eve evolved beside Adam (as in Adams rib).

The heavens and the earth (evolution) were created before the seven days of Eden... In the seven days God did not "create" the sun he "made it to shine".

Eden was a revamping of the world after the fall of lucifer...

I don't get my info from some sensationalism website I get it from reading and "studying" the Bible...

I would very much like hear all about this "born through evolution" you talk about. I am also very pleased that you did not get your "info from some sensationalism website" you got "it from reading and studying the Bible".

When you make your references to "physically born through evolution" please make sure you use biblical quotes and references as garnered "from reading and studying the Bible".

Mild sarcasm deserves an answer too...

How about "formed man from the dust of the ground"...

Does that sound like poof and there man was or like "forming" is a process that takes time? How many forms did man take on before God was finished?

And, "Let the earth bring forth" is different from presto and there are the plants and animals... The "earth bringing forth" is the word evolution...

The beginning is not biblically instantaneous in all aspects... Day and night is only relative to our solar system...

I would like to see where the Bible says that the world was "created" in seven/six days.

Exodus 31:17
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Comment:
The word "made" above is the Hebrew word `asah

Definition
to do, fashion, accomplish, make

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Comment:
The word "created" above is the Hebrew word Bara'

Definition
to create, shape, form

God "made" the world in seven days it does not say he created it in seven days. Yet again the western mind... They don't know the simple difference between the words formed, made and created...

Where did you ever get the idea that the Bible DIDN'T teach evolution?

From literal readers who were sloppy and did not comprehend eastern spiritual thought.

The question is, why did God have to speak back into being a world that had been actually created before...

The answer lies in the heavens.

In the first creation or the beginning, the "heavens" and the earth existed but darkness fell upon them and God spoke light back into being and in seven days he made a new plan... This was Eden...

The only thing the Bible says God "created" in Eden was his image in Adam and Eve (which is spiritual not physical) all of the other things were made, formed or they were "created" earlier...

RexRed,
What are you talking about?

RexRed wrote:

Chumly wrote:

RexRed wrote:

I believe they did have navels.

Because I believe they were physically born through evolution.

The only thing God "created" in Eden was his spirit in Adam and Eve... God walked with them. Eve evolved beside Adam (as in Adams rib).

The heavens and the earth (evolution) were created before the seven days of Eden... In the seven days God did not "create" the sun he "made it to shine".

Eden was a revamping of the world after the fall of lucifer...

I don't get my info from some sensationalism website I get it from reading and "studying" the Bible...

I would very much like hear all about this "born through evolution" you talk about. I am also very pleased that you did not get your "info from some sensationalism website" you got "it from reading and studying the Bible".

When you make your references to "physically born through evolution" please make sure you use biblical quotes and references as garnered "from reading and studying the Bible".

Mild sarcasm deserves an answer too...

How about "formed man from the dust of the ground"...

Does that sound like poof and there man was or like "forming" is a process that takes time? How many forms did man take on before God was finished?

And, "Let the earth bring forth" is different from presto and there are the plants and animals... The "earth bringing forth" is the word evolution...

The beginning is not biblically instantaneous in all aspects... Day and night is only relative to our solar system...

I would like to see where the Bible says that the world was "created" in seven/six days.

Exodus 31:17
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Comment:
The word "made" above is the Hebrew word `asah

Definition
to do, fashion, accomplish, make

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Comment:
The word "created" above is the Hebrew word Bara'

Definition
to create, shape, form

God "made" the world in seven days it does not say he created it in seven days. Yet again the western mind... They don't know the simple difference between the words formed, made and created...

Where did you ever get the idea that the Bible DIDN'T teach evolution?

From literal readers who were sloppy and did not comprehend eastern spiritual thought.

The question is, why did God have to speak back into being a world that had been actually created before...

The answer lies in the heavens.

In the first creation or the beginning, the "heavens" and the earth existed but darkness fell upon them and God spoke light back into being and in seven days he made a new plan... This was Eden...

The only thing the Bible says God "created" in Eden was his image in Adam and Eve (which is spiritual not physical) all of the other things were made, formed or they were "created" earlier...

What in the hell are you talking about????

Have you been drinking again?

Isaiah 43:7
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.


Comment:
Do all three of these words mean the same thing and God uses words haphazardly?

If Adam and Eve did not have navels, then they were not perfect human beings. On the other hand, if they had navels, then the navels would imply a birth they never experienced.

Fair enough, Neo--although this begins to resemble pulling teeth. Do you consider the Adam/Eve/Eden story allegory or literal truth?

Frank Apisa wrote:

By the way...one of the puishments meted out to the snake or serpent...was that from then on, it was to crawl on its belly.

I wonder how it moved about before that???

Anybody got any ideas on that?

Snakes also seem to have lost the vocal abilities. I wonder when that occured and why it was not mentioned.

neologist wrote:

Thanks for checking in, Set. Unlike others, I highly value your input. I even seek it, remember?

You're too kind--and if you are being sarcastic, you are subtle, as you long ago convinced me that you are sincere.

Quote:

And I can understand one who looks on the bloody and cacophonous history of religion and concludes there must be no God.

That would not be me, so i am at a loss to know why you include it in your response. Now, had you written that "one who looks on the bloody and cacophonous history of religion and concludes that the religionists do not follow the rational precepts of any reasonable god," you'd have come closer to describing my view. However, mere cacophony does not dismay me--i'm hard of hearing, so barking dogs and wailing children are no burden to me. I do not assert that there is no god, simply that i have no good reason to believe that there is.

Quote:

But I never cease to be amazed at the internal veracity of the story of man's fall. You could say the whole thing never took place and I would accept it as a legitimate opinion.

Purely on a rhetorical basis, it would be an opinion which would trump yours, unless and until you provide proof. Those who make extraordinary claims have the burden of proving the claim. You have a lot of problems here. Once again, you have not directly made a statement about whether or not you consider the text of this particular scripture to be the literal truth, and completely inerrant. Addtionally, you have provided no definition of what constitutes "man's fall," to where he fell, and from whence he fell. Although i don't think that you and i misunderstand one another here, it is still, within the context of debate, rather too vague a term to use.

Quote:

Frank, on the other hand, attempts to refute the writing from within by applying Frank's standards to Moses' account. Was Moses a liar? I don't think so. Did he provide a coherent explanation? You betcha.

Moses Alou, the baseball player? Come on, Neo, if you have a quibble with Frank's standards (which in fairness to me are not mine, and in fairness to Frank, are not intellectually objectionable to me), you should both take that up with him. . .

. . . and be more explicit. What was Moses coherently explaining, and did he deal in metaphor, or faithful reporting of the literal truth?

Chumly wrote:

If Adam and Eve did not have navels, then they were not perfect human beings. On the other hand, if they had navels, then the navels would imply a birth they never experienced.

Virtual navels. What else?

RexRed wrote:

Isaiah 43:7
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.


Comment:
Do all three of these words mean the same thing and God uses words haphazardly?

Is this your proof of "born through evolution"?

Evolution:
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.

Frank Apisa wrote:

CoastalRat wrote:

Frank, I agree totally that they did not know right from wrong. So unless they were told what was expected of them by their Creator, then they could have no way of knowing what was right or wrong.

This God did. He told them not to eat of the one tree. With God's instruction to them, they had knowledge of what they were not to do (wrong). Yet they chose to do it anyway, and were thus given an inner knowledge (conscience, if you will) of what is right and wrong.

Hope this makes sense.

The god: If you eat the fruit of this tree, yer gonna die.

Adam: Wow...if we eat the fruit of this tree, we're gonna die. I wonder what that's like?

Eve: Dunno. Let's eat of it and find out.

Adam: Okay.

What makes you so sure Adam and Eve did not know what death was? Adam had been around a long time - long enough to name the animals. Yet you read the account as if they had just fallen off the proverbial turnip truck.

Isaiah 43:7
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.


Comment:
Do all three of these words mean the same thing and God uses words haphazardly?

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

CoastalRat wrote:

Frank, I agree totally that they did not know right from wrong. So unless they were told what was expected of them by their Creator, then they could have no way of knowing what was right or wrong.

This God did. He told them not to eat of the one tree. With God's instruction to them, they had knowledge of what they were not to do (wrong). Yet they chose to do it anyway, and were thus given an inner knowledge (conscience, if you will) of what is right and wrong.

Hope this makes sense.

The god: If you eat the fruit of this tree, yer gonna die.

Adam: Wow...if we eat the fruit of this tree, we're gonna die. I wonder what that's like?

Eve: Dunno. Let's eat of it and find out.

Adam: Okay.

What makes you so sure Adam and Eve did not know what death was? Adam had been around a long time - long enough to name the animals. Yet you read the account as if they had just fallen off the proverbial turnip truck.

What? You didn't know there was no death before the fall off the turnip truck? http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/deathsin.html
Why, even the T-Rex ate salad.
P