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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 05:55 pm
nimh wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
And speaking of Gingrich--I did speak of Gingrich didn't I? From the NRO, Rich Lowry's piece is entitled Run Newt Run!!!! And you know, I won't be suprirised to see him throw his hat in the ring.

From the new TNR profile of the man that I linked in a few pages back you very definitely get the vibe that, oh yes, he'd like to run:

nimh wrote:
Newt Gingrich for President?

There's a lengthy, intrigueing portrait of the man and his aspirations on TNR:

COGITO ERGO SUM NEWT - The Thinker

He comes across as a surprisingly lovable, but also somewhat off-kilter, grandiose candidate.


Ah, I missed that. Thanks. And yes. Newt has never been short on ego. It is both his strength and his weakness.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Aug, 2006 05:55 pm
Whoohoo! Be warned - this is a rant. Not some rationally balanced, intellectual exercise of comparative politics. But a from-the-gut articulation of an intuitive take. But thats how GWB likes it too, so if the world were fair this would go down as well as his home truths.

TNR's Michelle Cottle on why she really doesnt like George Allen:

Quote:
George Allen: poser.
Faux Pa


by Michelle Cottle
Only at TNR Online | Post date 08.18.06

Macaca? Good grief. While I've long suspected George Allen to be a complete horse's ass, this recent slip of the tongue clinches it--and for the exact reasons I've always believed. Not because Allen may be, if not a genuine racist, at least a politically opportunistic one. (He'd hardly be the first Southern politician with that distinction.) And not because the details of the incident--hurling a snarky, possibly racist insult at a young member of his political opponents' campaign, twice, in public, while the kid was videotaping him--suggest that Allen is irretrievably stupid. (Also not unprecedented among Southern pols.) But what truly delights me about this mini-scandal is that Allen has at last shown himself to be such a hopeless fraud, such a transparent redneck wannabe, that he can't even get his racial epithets right.

Seriously. What kind of hoity-toity, Frenchified, North African slur is "macaca"? Allen, whose maman is French Tunisian, may have heard this term bandied about in his childhood, perhaps so long ago that he hardly remembered its meaning when he reached into his mental quiver of spontaneous insults. But I guarantee you none of the rednecks I grew up with would have come up with something so obscure and cosmopolitan. They tended use simpler, more classically American terms.

But faux hickness is what Allen is all about: Despite the omnipresent cowboy boots and that gag-inducing dip habit of his, the wealthy California native is not some backward good ole boy. He just desperately wishes he were. And, while such cultural delusions may not be as absurd as, say, the scion of the preppiest political dynasty in modern U.S. history somehow passing himself off as an Average Joe Texan, they're still pretty pathetic.

Our political differences aside, I find Allen personally objectionable for much the same reason I do George W. Bush. Having spent much of my youth in East Tennessee, I am all too familiar with both the charms and the downsides of good ole boys and even hard-core rednecks. And what never ceases to amaze me is how pretenders like Bush (eternally aiming for good ole boy status) and Allen (with even grander pretensions of redneckdom) always seem to latch on to the less admirable aspects of the breed. Allen's enduring obsession with the Confederacy and slavery would be morally questionable coming from someone reared in Greenville, Mississippi, listening to romanticized accounts of how his great-great-grandpappy took one in the gut at the Battle of Vicksburg. From a well-to-do kid raised by non-Southern parents in the suburbs of Chicago and Los Angeles, it's downright revolting.

Less overtly offensive but equally obnoxious is Bush's I-never-put-much-stock-in-book-learnin' shtick: Doesn't follow the news. Doesn't pay attention to so-called experts and other pointy-headed types. Doesn't bother himself with policy details. Goes with his gut. Blah blah blah. This sort of reverse snobbery may have been the most common and least admirable trait among the true good ole boys I knew. These were the type of men who would sink thousands upon thousands of dollars into the piece of crap truck they took mud-bogging every Saturday but claim poverty when it came time to pay for their kids' college education. These people weren't just ignorant; they were proud of their ignorance--snickering about how going to a good college just made folks uppity. It's a lot like the phenomenon you see in certain segments of the black community, when young people who are academically ambitious are charged with acting "too white." It's bullshit when blacks do it, and it's bullshit when good ole boys do it.

It is completely indefensible, however, when a hick-wannabe like Bush or Allen does it. It's one thing for some redneck raised around all that racist, ignorance-is-bliss nonsense to buy into it. It's quite another for some privileged twit from the West Coast to fall so in love with the cartoon image of Johnny Reb that he starts collecting Confederate memorabilia and dipping Copenhagen just to feel macho. As for Bush's message that intellectual curiosity and academic striving are for elitist girly men: Way to be your own man and thumb your nose at the tediously accomplished Poppy, Georgie Boy. Unfortunately, you make a lousy role model for the vast majority of Americans, who, sadly, don't have a rich, well-connected, exceedingly forgiving daddy to bail their butts out every time they get busted for drunk driving, need a safe place to sit out a war, or manage to drive an oil company into the ground.

Bush and Allen fancy themselves the heroes of those old, hard-luck country songs--they just want to play the role without any of the hard luck. Arguably, the most admirable quality of genuine good ole boys (and, yes, even rednecks), is that they are authentic--even if at times authentically ugly. A phony good ole boy is an unlikable oxymoron. If politics were just, the Georges' hick affectations would have long-ago rendered both men about as popular as vegetarians at a pig roast. As things stand, I have to content myself with seeing W.'s abysmal job performance sink his poll numbers--sorry you blew off 41's Iraq advice yet, 43?--and watching as Allen struggles to wipe the macaca off his face.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Aug, 2006 06:20 pm
Just for the record - its probably lost too soon amidst the brouhaha of letters to the editors and takes of pundits - but here's the actual video of when George Allen called S.R. Sidarth a "macaca", which is a French racial slur used for North-Africans. (George Allen's mother was a Frenchwoman from North Africa.)

As TNR reader Teplukhin noted,

Quote:
Isn't US politics interesting? Here we have a pampered Orange County CA son of a wealthy football club owner who feigns a redneck confederate-lovin son of the south air and spits racial epithets at an opponent's South Asian staffer - in the French patois of Tunisian pied noirs french colonials that he learned from his racist .. French mom!

But wait, there's more embarassing YouTubing of George Allen. Did you know that George Allen, that native son of California, actually chose to appear as a Confederate officer in the 2003 Civil War movie Gods and Generals (and probably had to pull some strings to land the part) - to brightly sing, "Hurrah! Hurrah! For Southern rights, hurrah!"?

Watch it here

Meanwhile, a new Rasmussen poll shows Jim Webb closer than ever, within five points of George Allen among likely Virginia voters - even though Allen began the month of July with about fifteen times as much cash on hand as Webb. Allen's favourability rating is down from 70% to 57%, and falling.

Forget about the presidential nomination - Allen has a fight on his hands just to keep his Senate seat.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2006 06:07 pm
From Taegan Goddard's Political Wire:

Quote:
Giuliani Leads in Iowa

The Des Moines Register reports that Rudy Giuliani (R) "leads the field of prospective Republican presidential candidates in Iowa," according to a poll of likely GOP caucus-goers.

"Giuliani received support from 30 percent of Republicans expecting to attend the 2008 caucuses," while 29% said they were undecided. Sen. John McCain (R) received 17.3%.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2006 06:13 pm
Giuliani'd be brilliant. The man has closets in his closets.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Sep, 2006 03:44 am
Well, something to be said for Giuliani: a sense of common decency and responsibility, apparently. The kind that is sadly missing in the Cheney and Rumsfeld type of Republican.

Quote:
09.01.06

RUDY THE NICE:

Slate's John Dickerson went to see Rudy Giuliani stump for Maryland GOP Senate candidate Michael Steele. He recorded this interesting moment:

    As the mayor answered the last of the three questions from reporters, he talked about the root causes of terrorism: "oppressive governments that demagogue and blame and project their problems other places and do nothing to solve the problems of their own people." "Sounds like the Democrats," shouted a man. The crowd roared. It was the kind of stupid remark candidates usually ignore. They either agree but can't show that they do, or they don't want to cause a stir by contradicting one of the partisans they've come to court. Giuliani's aides were already preparing to move him to his waiting SUV. He could have just left. "Time out," he said bringing his hands together to make a T. "Time out." The crowd quieted down. "The other thing we have to learn is that we can't get into this partisan bickering. The fact is that Republicans and Democrats have the same objectives.... Democrats are loyal Americans. Republicans are loyal Americans. I think we have better answers, but we have to respect each other."
Good for Giuliani. Too bad, as Dickerson accurately concludes from the above exchange, "This guy is never getting the nomination."

--Jason Zengerle
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Oct, 2006 07:53 pm
Rep. Who??

Any of you Reps/conservatives have a take on this guy, his chances, his politics?

Quote:
Rep. Hunter to Explore White House Bid

Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 31, 2006; Page A03

LOS ANGELES, Oct. 30 -- Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.), chairman of the House Armed Services Committee and a vigorous opponent of illegal immigration, announced Monday that he is starting the process of seeking the presidency in 2008.

Hunter, 58, said he will form an exploratory committee for a presidential run, adding his name to a list of better-known GOP hopefuls such as Sen. John McCain (Ariz.), Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani.

"I've always laid my cards on the table," Hunter said at a news conference in San Diego. "As I finish my final two years as chairman of the Armed Services Committee, I'm also going to be preparing to run for president of the United States in 2008."

[..]
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Oct, 2006 07:55 pm
He sounds like a bit of a nob...

Quote:
"I went into Congress with a guy named Ronald Reagan," said Hunter, who was first elected to the House in 1980. "Together we rebuilt national security."


Me and the elephant, we were thumping our feet..

Hunter Lays Groundwork for Presidential Run
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Dec, 2006 01:09 pm
Senator Sam Brownback has begun his presidential bid.



Brownback's site
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Dec, 2006 08:55 pm
Whaddayall think of him?

From the little Ive read, Brownback would instantly be the most conservative of all the Republicans running or almost-running - that right?
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 06:08 am
Anybody notice McCain's far right act... and does anyone really buy it?
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 09:16 am
Sort of.

In the sense of, I think McCain will do what he has to do, including actually throwing bones to various constituencies. As such, I don't trust him.

My main thought about Brownback is that I hope he runs!! :-) I imagine it's a similar idea to what Republicans think of Hillary running. He seems like a total kook to me.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 09:44 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Anybody notice McCain's far right act... and does anyone really buy it?

I do. I encourage you to check out voteview.com, a site by a group of sociology professors. They measure the conservatism or liberalism of politicians by their voting records and publish the results on their site. McCain's voting record has been one of the most consistently conservative ones in the Senate (108th Senate, 109th Senate).

I was stunned myself when I first saw this 1-2 years ago. Apparently George Bush was so successful at monopolizing the label `conservative' that the press labels as `liberal' or `independent' every Republican who occasionally opposes Bush. But by his voting record, McCain's conservative credentials seem solid. (Not that I consider this a good thing.)

This page has more. It compares how Lieberman's and McCaine's voting records changed between th 105th and 107th Senate. By doing this, it hopes to find out how their presidential bids changed their voting behavior. In the 105th Senate, we find McCain near the middle of his fellow Republican Senators. In the 107th Senate, he has moved to the Republican Center, or the overall left.

So the overall picture is that McCain is a mainstream or even conservative Republican who will hand out some candy to liberals when it seems opportune.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 10:21 am
Yeah, that's a good point.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 10:40 am
sozobe wrote:
Yeah, that's a good point.

except for this mindo, I guess: "he has moved to the Republican Center, or the overall left." Of course he has moved to the overall center, or the Republican left. <pulls brown paper bag over head.>
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 02:20 pm
nimh wrote:
Whaddayall think of him?

From the little Ive read, Brownback would instantly be the most conservative of all the Republicans running or almost-running - that right?

Indubitably.

He'd get all the nutty rightists and when the campaign crashes and burns--and it will-- they'll be scouring around for another candidate.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 05:23 pm
I have family and friends back in Vancouver who will no longer allow me to speak on political matters. They'll shove a beer or a joint in my mouth to inhibit the flow of "McCain!" and "AIPAC!" and all the rest of it. As if that doesn't just make matters worse ten minutes up the road.

I'm not sure how I've come to be such an obsessive wonk on US politics, but I've become that and find myself utterly entranced by what might happen in the next two years. The dem primaries will be incredibly interesting and important but less so than what will happen with the republicans. I thought I'd have a mental rest after nov 7 but that was clearly delusional.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 03:30 pm
News that you may have missed last month:

16 November: Tommy Thompson announces possible White House run

This from Yahoo news story thats no longer online:

Quote:

Any opinions? What do you think of him, what are his chances?
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 04:04 pm
I, a liberal democrat, admire McCain. But.
I think the republicans will reject him in the end. Despite his stance on the war in Iraq, I think many in his party are wanting a Reaganesque candidate and McCain may be a bit too moderate on other issues.
Plus, and you hear this murmur periodically, McCain would be one of the oldest people elected to the Presidency and he has had cancer, so what if...
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Atavistic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Dec, 2006 04:48 pm
I love Pat Buchanan, but he's way too stubborn and old-fashioned on social issues. But as far as foreign policy goes, he's top-notch. I'd dare to say that none of these prospective candidates are as well-versed in history and international relations as Pat. He's a true patriot too, not one of these one-worlders.
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