A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

Foxfyre wrote:

The GOP puts up a Newt Gingrich or a Mitt Romney or a George Allen or a Jeb Bush

Well yeah if the GOP puts up any of that kind of guy (dont know about Romney, but the others), then even Hillary stands a very good chance of winning. Putting up Gingrich or actually another Bush is like electoral suicide for the Republicans.

In fact, I think that against Gingrich, Hillary would be so likely to win that, if I were American, I'd indulge myself in a protest vote for the Greens.

Meanwhile, on the other hand, if the GOP puts up Giuliani or McCain, then a) Hillary wouldnt stand a chance anyway, and b) things would still be getting better than they are now and unlikely to again get quite so out of hand, so I would, if I were American, also be tempted to just vote Green...

Now Condi vs Hillary, that could be close.. or McCain vs Obama..

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nimh wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
The GOP puts up a Newt Gingrich or a Mitt Romney or a George Allen or a Jeb Bush

Well yeah if the GOP puts up any of that kind of guy (dont know about Romney, but the others), then even Hillary stands a very good chance of winning. Putting up Gingrich or actually another Bush is like electoral suicide for the Republicans.

In fact, I think that against Gingrich, Hillary would be so likely to win that, if I were American, I'd indulge myself in a protest vote for the Greens.

Meanwhile, on the other hand, if the GOP puts up Giuliani or McCain, then a) Hillary wouldnt stand a chance anyway, and b) things would still be getting better than they are now and unlikely to again get quite so out of hand, so I would, if I were American, also be tempted to just vote Green...

Now Condi vs Hillary, that could be close.. or McCain vs Obama..

The GOP has not been all that really good at putting up their brightest and best as a candidate. And 'Candidate" anybody is always portrayed much differently than they are portrayed when they aren't a 'threat' to anybody. McCain has not done well running against other Republicans, even the less palatable ones, in the primary in the past. Guliani remains untested as a presidential candidate. But anything can happen between now and the time that the nominations are locked in.

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Besides not breaking down during the whole 9/11 tragedy and giving credit where it's due, really coming through, whats so great about Guliani? McCain become nothing but a sell out in my opinion though I know that it is not a popular opinion. Hillary is alright on the domestic front but I think she is too hawkish for my taste. I would really have to some searching to find somebody when the election season heats up because right now I can't think of anybody I would feel comfortable pushing the button for.

I ran across an interesting article though this morning that sort of ties in with all this.

Charles Barkley: John Mellencamp right, "Conservative means discriminatory"

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Foxfyre, I can't think of a single Republican I'd vote for. Note, it's not out of the question that I'd vote for a Republican -- it's not categorical -- but I wouldn't vote for McCain or Guiliani or any of the others who are possibilities. If Hillary actually becomes the nominee, unless there is a situation like nimh describes where she'd definitely win and I can do a protest vote, I'd vote for her.

Hillary has me quaking in my boots not because I think she'd be such a horrible president, but because I think she'd have a horrible time WINNING the presidency if she did become the Democratic nominee. That is, my fear encompasses the fact that I like any possible Republican nominees even less than I like her. I think if she gets the nomination, there will be a Republican president, which I don't want. I think that if someone like Obama or Warner or Biden get the nomination, Democrats have a chance, and that's what I want.

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should Hillary run I would vote Libertarian.

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revel wrote:

I ran across an interesting article though this morning that sort of ties in with all this.

Charles Barkley: John Mellencamp right, "Conservative means discriminatory"

Hey -

Quote:

Hearing Barkley saying "we" with the Democrats would be surprise to many. For years, the NBA Hall of Famer was a very public card carrying member of the Republican party.

"I was a Republican until they lost their minds," Barkley said.

Heh.

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sozobe wrote:

Foxfyre, I can't think of a single Republican I'd vote for. Note, it's not out of the question that I'd vote for a Republican -- it's not categorical -- but I wouldn't vote for McCain or Guiliani or any of the others who are possibilities. If Hillary actually becomes the nominee, unless there is a situation like nimh describes where she'd definitely win and I can do a protest vote, I'd vote for her.

Hillary has me quaking in my boots not because I think she'd be such a horrible president, but because I think she'd have a horrible time WINNING the presidency if she did become the Democratic nominee. That is, my fear encompasses the fact that I like any possible Republican nominees even less than I like her. I think if she gets the nomination, there will be a Republican president, which I don't want. I think that if someone like Obama or Warner or Biden get the nomination, Democrats have a chance, and that's what I want.

And there ya go. When (the rhetorical) you pick a side based on ideology, which both you and I do, (though opposite sides), you will likely vote for the ideology rather than the person. I can't think of any Democrat I would vote for against any Republican likely to get the nomination either, but there are a few Democrats I would not be dismayed if they should be elected. These however are not likely to win the nomination.

This election is likely going to be just like so many other elections. The campaign will be against somebody, not for somebody. And that is unfortunate.

For instance, I'm pulling for Demesia Padilla to be our next state treasurer. I don't have a clue what party she is affiliated with, but I know her to be a person of integrity and intelligence and imminently qualified for the position. But will Demesia be allowed to run on her strengths and qualifcations? Nope. She'll be campaigning against former state treasurers of which I think seven of the last eight have been indicted for something. Like I said, that is unfortunate.

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Foxfyre wrote:

This election is likely going to be just like so many other elections. The campaign will be against somebody, not for somebody. And that is unfortunate.

Well, not exactly. I'm quite energetically FOR Barack Obama (see my "Obama '08?" thread) and one thing that I love about him is that he gets other people excited in that same way. "Obama '08 -- Isn't It Time to Vote FOR Someone?" (Hey, not bad.)

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Revel--

As to "what's so good about Giuliani," do you know the NY he inherited, and the NY he created?

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sozobe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
This election is likely going to be just like so many other elections. The campaign will be against somebody, not for somebody. And that is unfortunate.

Well, not exactly. I'm quite energetically FOR Barack Obama (see my "Obama '08?" thread) and one thing that I love about him is that he gets other people excited in that same way. "Obama '08 -- Isn't It Time to Vote FOR Someone?" (Hey, not bad.)

Well yes. There are some folks out there I think I could be FOR too. But the reality is, the one(s) I am FOR now will likely not be the one who is the presidential candidate. And the odds are good that the one you are FOR won't be the candidate either.

So, the two of us might get stuck supporting candidates that we didn't want, but that still look better than the other guy. Smile

I like the slogan though.

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I dunno, odds are lookin' a little better every day. ;-)

It's a long shot, to be sure, I'm hoping though (and doing what I can to make it more likely...)

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sozobe wrote:

I dunno, odds are lookin' a little better every day. ;-)

It's a long shot, to be sure, I'm hoping though (and doing what I can to make it more likely...)

Well I hope you can. I would rather have a President Obama, (or as Ted Kennedy referred to him: Osama Barama) than a second President Clinton. Smile

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Rudy or Condi in this corner.

Very Happy

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Lash wrote:

Rudy or Condi in this corner.

I'm looking harder at Rudy because I honestly don't know what his position on the issues are. Condi has solid Conservative credentials and virtually no baggage and if she is tough enough to make through a campaign--we won't know unless she tries--I think she has the moxy to get the job done.

I feel that gut level thrill when I hear Allen talk, and if he is for real, I think he has a lot of Reaganesque qualities. The smartest and probably the wisest of the bunch is Gingrich, but he has way too much baggage and just isn't likable enough I think. I have always thought Jeb Bush was the pick of that litter, but have no sense whether he would make a good president, and I don't think he has enough national support to get the nomination.

It would be best for the country of course to have two exemplary nominees that we could be fairly certain would do a good job no matter which was elected.

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If electability wasn't an issue, who would you most want as president, Foxfyre? (Just curious.)

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sozobe wrote:

If electability wasn't an issue, who would you most want as president, Foxfyre? (Just curious.)

Dunno for certain yet Soz. Like I said, if Allen is for real, I sure like what he has been saying and I like his integrity in not running with the pack when he thinks they're wrong. I get very good vibes and a sense of confidence from Condi. I have to pay attention to Guiliani's accomplishments and wonder if he can duplicate them on a much larger scale? And he is a hands on government guy and may indeed be at heart an old conservative Democrat more than a conservative Republican. That in itself wouldn't be bad. But I feel so strongly that the people need to get back to making it happen themselves, I want a national leader who thinks that way too. Boehner of Ohio and Shadegg of Arizona qualify though Shadegg has the less baggage associated with lobbyists. (Neither are presidential contenders this time so far as I know.)

Who would make the best president? Haven't decided. I just know I wouldn't have to anesthetize my conscience to vote for any of these based on what I know about them now. Smile

And for you. I know you are an Obama supporter. But if he turns out to be unviable or drops out of the race this time, who would you most like to see as President?

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Oof. It'd be tough. Well, if it's in terms of "if electability wasn't an issue" it would be easy, actually -- Russ Feingold. I've known him (not personally, though I knew people who worked on his campaign[s]) since I was a student in Madison, and have been steadily impressed with him. But I don't think there's any way he could win.

If Obama doesn't run (he's maintained that he won't, so he can't quite drop out) or turns out not to be viable, I guess Warner. That's extremely qualified enthusiasm, though.

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sozobe wrote:

Oof. It'd be tough. Well, if it's in terms of "if electability wasn't an issue" it would be easy, actually -- Russ Feingold. I've known him (not personally, though I knew people who worked on his campaign[s]) since I was a student in Madison, and have been steadily impressed with him. But I don't think there's any way he could win.

If Obama doesn't run (he's maintained that he won't, so he can't quite drop out) or turns out not to be viable, I guess Warner. That's extremely qualified enthusiasm, though.

Understood. There's a number of Republicans out there that I currently have extremely qualified enthusiasm for too.

I want a JFK sans Marilyn vs a Ronald Reagan sans Nancy's astrologer. That would be a no-lose proposition for we the people. Smile

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And speaking of Gingrich--I did speak of Gingrich didn't I? From the NRO, Rich Lowry's piece is entitled Run Newt Run!!!! And you know, I won't be suprirised to see him throw his hat in the ring.

Quote:

SOURCE

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Foxfyre wrote:

And speaking of Gingrich--I did speak of Gingrich didn't I? From the NRO, Rich Lowry's piece is entitled Run Newt Run!!!! And you know, I won't be suprirised to see him throw his hat in the ring.

From the new TNR profile of the man that I linked in a few pages back you very definitely get the vibe that, oh yes, he'd like to run:

nimh wrote:

Newt Gingrich for President?

There's a lengthy, intrigueing portrait of the man and his aspirations on TNR:

COGITO ERGO SUM NEWT - The Thinker

He comes across as a surprisingly lovable, but also somewhat off-kilter, grandiose candidate.

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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

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