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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:26 pm
nimh wrote:
I'm kind of taken aback by the results from Washington - I thought that those early results would be rapidly overtaken as more votes would come in, but look at this:

26% McCain
24% Huckabee
21% Paul
16% Romney
13% Uncommitted

That's with 78% of precincts reporting.

I mean, OK - I can see how the Huck/Mac divide fits the peculiar geography of the state (although Huckabee has certainly not fared well in the Mountain West previously). But 21% for Ron Paul? 16% for a candidate who's already dropped out? 13% Uncommitted? Is this anything but a slap in the face for McCain, or am I overlooking something?


nimh

It's merely anecdotal, but here in Portland (we are ten miles from the Washington State border) the only political activists we've seen at all have been Ron Paul supporters and they've been at it for five or six months.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:28 pm
okie wrote:
blatham wrote:
okie wrote:
Thats hardly comedy when somebody suggests somebody should die, blatham. I would label that person sick instead of a comedian.


Unless they are Muslim?

What? That is a weird statement, blatham.


I think so too. Coulter doesn't.
Quote:
We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:32 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
okie wrote:
Yes, even Huckabee wipes out the great John McCain. Even in a Republican primary, McCain can't even win make a good showing in Kansas, or looks like in Louisiana either, as the fat lady is taking the stage there now with almost all the votes counted with Huckabee ahead by more than a couple thousand votes. Even if the delegates are not given to Huckabee in Louisiana, it is still rather embarrassing for McCain it would appear.


Yes, yes ... slap in the face ... very embarrassing.

I suspect he won't be nearly as embarrassed while he's giving his acceptance speech in Minneapolis in September.

I hope its a good one. He will probably tell us he is another Ronald Reagan, just waiting for his chance to prove it after all this time.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:34 pm
blatham wrote:
okie wrote:
blatham wrote:
okie wrote:
Thats hardly comedy when somebody suggests somebody should die, blatham. I would label that person sick instead of a comedian.


Unless they are Muslim?

What? That is a weird statement, blatham.


I think so too. Coulter doesn't.
Quote:
We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

I don't follow Coulter. She is a shock jock, and if she is suggesting innocent people be killed, then she needs to be called to task over it, and disinvited to events.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:37 pm
It's just an unfortunate twist of fate that our boy from Arkansas didn't have a father whose name was McAbel.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:37 pm
Anyway, I'm calling it quits. Looks like Huckabee wins 2 at least and I read somewhere that Washington won't be known until morning.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:39 pm
okie wrote:
blatham wrote:
okie wrote:
blatham wrote:
okie wrote:
Thats hardly comedy when somebody suggests somebody should die, blatham. I would label that person sick instead of a comedian.


Unless they are Muslim?

What? That is a weird statement, blatham.


I think so too. Coulter doesn't.
Quote:
We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

I don't follow Coulter. She is a shock jock, and if she is suggesting innocent people be killed, then she needs to be called to task over it, and disinvited to events.


Yes, and also she
Quote:
should be kicked off the air never to return again for comments like that.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:42 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Yes, yes ... slap in the face ... very embarrassing.

I suspect he won't be nearly as embarrassed while he's giving his acceptance speech in Minneapolis in September.

Well yes, of course. There's no doubt he'll be the nominee.

But it is embarassing to be declared the presumptive nominee after Super Tuesday and then promptly lose two out or three primaries in one day. Getting just 42%, 26% and 24% respectively even as you have just one semi-serious rival left.

Just a hiccup, of course. But hey, hiccups can be pretty embarassing :wink:
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 12:02 am
nimh wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Yes, yes ... slap in the face ... very embarrassing.

I suspect he won't be nearly as embarrassed while he's giving his acceptance speech in Minneapolis in September.

Well yes, of course. There's no doubt he'll be the nominee.

But it is embarassing to be declared the presumptive nominee after Super Tuesday and then promptly lose two out or three primaries in one day. Getting just 42%, 26% and 24% respectively even as you have just one semi-serious rival left.

Just a hiccup, of course. But hey, hiccups can be pretty embarassing :wink:


Well, perhaps we can agree that at least you find it embarrassing.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 12:44 am
georgeob1 wrote:
okie wrote:
I think the guy you need to worry about is John McCain.

I am not at all convinced he will pick good supreme court judges, just one example.


Do you think Obama or Hillary will pick ones you like more?????


That's another good reason you should vote for Obama, Okie. Did you know he taught constitutional law for 10 years at the University of Chicago Law School? That's the same place where Antonin Scalia taught before becoming a US Supreme Court justice.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 02:13 am
okie wrote:
Thats hardly comedy when somebody suggests somebody should die, blatham. I would label that person sick instead of a comedian.


You don't understand okie, it is irrelevant to blatham whether or not Maher should be considered funny (although I suspect he gets a big kick out of him). He is of the opinion that Coulter is an agent of evil as is evidenced by the fact that she has engaged, throughout, our life in activities and jobs associated with conservative positions.

Exhibit A: She is founder of the Cornell Review which "targets" affirmative action, gay rights, communist sympathizers, abortion, and anti-apartheid activists. This is a crucial piece of evidence, for as we all know these programs, causes and individuals stand clearly above criticism, and anyone who might be so twisted as to not only disagree but actually offer such criticism, must be a malignant force.

Exhibit B: She is a founder of a chapter of The Federalist Society a shadowy sinister organization that describes its nefarious purpose as

Quote:
Law schools and the legal profession are currently strongly dominated by a form of orthodox liberal ideology which advocates a centralized and uniform society. While some members of the academic community have dissented from these views, by and large they are taught simultaneously with (and indeed as if they were) the law.

The Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies is a group of conservatives and libertarians interested in the current state of the legal order. It is founded on the principles that the state exists to preserve freedom, that the separation of governmental powers is central to our Constitution, and that it is emphatically the province and duty of the judiciary to say what the law is, not what it should be. The Society seeks both to promote an awareness of these principles and to further their application through its activities.

This entails reordering priorities within the legal system to place a premium on individual liberty, traditional values, and the rule of law. It also requires restoring the recognition of the importance of these norms among lawyers, judges, law students and professors. In working to achieve these goals, the Society has created a conservative and libertarian intellectual network that extends to all levels of the legal community.


And this is how they accomplish their pernicious aims:

Quote:
In working to achieve these goals, the Society has created a network of intellectuals that extends to all levels of the legal community. The Student Division has more than 5,000 law students as members and, through the national office's network of legal experts, the Society provides speakers for differing viewpoints at law school events. The activities of the Student Division are complemented by the activities of the Lawyers Division, which comprises more than 20,000 legal professionals, and the Faculty Division, which includes many in the academic legal community.


Notice how they are seeking to infiltrate all levels of the legal community and their insidious focus on the young minds of our students.

The origin of the Society's name is quite revealing in that it is a reference to The Federalist Papers, a series of articles intended to explain the Constitution and secretly written in 1788 under the pseudonym "Publius" by three of the darkest figures in our early history, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and John Jay. With The Federalist Papers these three villains attempted to sow the seeds of intolerance and tyranny within the fertile soil of America's nascent republic.

But if you have any doubt about the malevolent nature of the Society you need only review its membership roster and you will find some of the most vile and destructive people in American history:

1) Justice Anton Scalia
2) Justice Clarence Thomas
3) Justice Samuel Alito
4) Robert Bork
5) Ted Olsen
6) Edwin Meese
7) Orrin Hatch
8) Kenneth Starr (Yes, that Kenneth Starr!)

Exhibit C: She went for "training" to The National Journalism Center. Blatham and I use quotation marks around the word training because we both know that what goes on at the NJC is really a process of duplicitous indoctrination. Like an Al Qaeda terrorist camp "training" Taqiyya sleepers for insertion in enemy societies, the NJC "strives to create conservative journalists and help them establish careers in the fields of print and broadcasting." And we know how well the "training" and insertion of Ann Coulter went.

Exhibit D: She worked for Senator Spencer Abraham in 1994. Coulter experts believe that her position with Abraham was actually one of her clandestine assignments for The Federalist Society because Spencer was the only Arab-American US Senator and noted for supporting relaxation of immigration laws. Abraham was focused on the heroic quest to make immigration to America easier but, unfortunately he was defeated by Debbie Stabenow who employed a scurrilous campaign ad that asked: "Why is Senator Spencer Abraham trying to make it easier for terrorists like Osama bin Laden to export their war of terror to any city street in America?" Again, experts believe that because Abraham was notoriously soft on immigration, a position on his staff was the perfect cover for Coulter and indeed, she was able to help write legislation designed to expedite the deportation of innocent undocumented immigrants convicted of felonies in obviously racist kangaroo courts. Most experts believe that it was also part of Coulter's mission to sabotage Abraham's reelection bid in order to insert another alum of the NJC posing as a Democrat.

Exhibit E: Coulter later became a litigator for the Center for Individual Rights an organization dedicated to using litigation to intimidate and coerce.

Exhibit F: Probably the most damning and conclusive evidence of Coulter's dedication to undermining democracy in America was the "behind the scenes" work she did for Kenneth Starr and Linda Tripp in their unholy attempt to personally and politically destroy the lives of Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton and overturn the results of fair and free elections in 1996 that saw William Jefferson Clinton elected president of the United States in spite of all of the dirty tricks and criminal offences launched by The Tri-Lateral Commission and it's hellhound, The Right Wing Attack Machine.

So okie blatham is making the point that comparing Bill Maher to Ann Coulter is like comparing Don Rickles to Satan.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 02:16 am
Butrflynet wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
okie wrote:
I think the guy you need to worry about is John McCain.

I am not at all convinced he will pick good supreme court judges, just one example.


Do you think Obama or Hillary will pick ones you like more?????


That's another good reason you should vote for Obama, Okie. Did you know he taught constitutional law for 10 years at the University of Chicago Law School? That's the same place where Antonin Scalia taught before becoming a US Supreme Court justice.


We have to be careful or else oakie will get all bigheaded thinking we're competing for his vote. Cool
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 07:19 am
finn, in a sweet and fatherly voice to okie, said:
Quote:
You don't understand okie, it is irrelevant to blatham whether or not Maher should be considered funny (although I suspect he gets a big kick out of him). He is of the opinion that Coulter is an agent of evil as is evidenced by the fact that she has engaged, throughout, our life in activities and jobs associated with conservative positions....

So okie blatham is making the point that comparing Bill Maher to Ann Coulter is like comparing Don Rickles to Satan
.

Don't watch the fellow's show and Coulter's not evil, not in the manner of, say, Milton Friedman in his justifications of Pinochet's murders, nun-raping and torture.

Still, to claim that she and Maher are both "comics" and "performance artists" is pretty dull-headed, boys.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 07:55 am
Yeah, Drum's take was my take. Sure, McCain's going to win at the end. But he's going to have to take on Huckabee now, and Huckabee isn't a completely trivial threat, and the taking-on itself -- convincing Republican voters that he's conservative enough, plus just the business of watching his flank rather than fixing on the Dem target(s) -- may well hurt him in the general.

(Guess my earlier "crazy thought" wasn't so crazy...)
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 09:16 am
Can you imagine how many phone calls from DC, New York and Texas are coming into the Huckabee campaign? "Mike? Ted Olsen here. Would you like a little getaway in the Azores for you and your beautiful wife?"

This is all, so far, a seriously beneficial outcome for the Dems. A year or more ago, we talked about the possibility of the conservative movement (evangelicals, particularly) being so disenchanted with the candidates and the Republican party that they'd mount a third party challenge. It didn't look likely given the suicidal consequences. But the dynamic is still churning away and impeding both solidarity and enthusiasm. Thankyou jesus.

These people who appear to be voting for Huck and against McCain seem likely to be the same folks who previously had been so important to the republican electoral ground-game, manning phones, stuffing envelopes, driving the elderly, etc. - not to mention their critical importance as voters. To see them at such odds with what they perceive as the Washington/elitist power structure in the party is a fine sight indeed.

That the rightwing nutty radio types have also ended up in loud opposition to the presumptive nominee has been, to me, a totally unexpected blessing.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 09:24 am
Blatham:
Quote:
That the rightwing nutty radio types have also ended up in loud opposition to the presumptive nominee has been, to me, a totally unexpected blessing.


It has been a gift that keeps on giving for me as well.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 09:51 am
sozobe wrote:
Yeah, Drum's take was my take. Sure, McCain's going to win at the end. But he's going to have to take on Huckabee now, and Huckabee isn't a completely trivial threat, and the taking-on itself -- convincing Republican voters that he's conservative enough, plus just the business of watching his flank rather than fixing on the Dem target(s) -- may well hurt him in the general.

(Guess my earlier "crazy thought" wasn't so crazy...)


I don't think he will have to take Huckabee on at all. Merely the passage of time between now and November and the gathering storm of the Democrat campaign as the candidate selection winds to a completion (regardless of who wins it) will do that for him. Huckabee's supporters have no where else to go. Some will spout and fume, but they have always been taken more seriously by Democrats than Republicans.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 10:02 am
george, george, george

Do you truly realize how much trouble your party/movement is in? The indicators are everywhere you look... dems are outraising in funding by large percentages and that's a first... turnout throughout the primaries and caucuses are averaging about double for dems over republicans...the sitting Republican president's popularity is at the same level as Nixon when he resigned...the economy is going you know where...the war is still being fought and your candidate made the seriously stupid move of saying it might last another 100 years while Americans want it over now...your party solidarity is in the worst condition it's been in since Goldwater...the activist base which Rove built up and used so effectively is angry to the point of not voting and not helping...and the dems love both their candidates...and the US is moving to the left because it really didn't like where the movement extremists took it.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 10:14 am
I do indeed - though you exaggerate - to good effect, mind you - but exaggerate, nonetheless. You, in turn, should consider just how remarkable it is that, in spite of all that, the available data also suggests a close race in the election.

Besides, none of this has anything to do with my astute and insightful comment about Huckabee, evangelicals and Democrat obsessions.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 10:20 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Well, perhaps we can agree that at least you find it embarrassing.

Ha! I'm glad you're not embarassed, but it's hardly just me - have you seen the media headlines today? Very Happy
0 Replies
 
 

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