A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

Quote:

Huckabee's supporters have no where else to go. Some will spout and fume, but they have always been taken more seriously by Democrats than Republicans.

Um...the astute and insightful comment above was what my last post was mainly speaking to. They do have somewhere else to go. Home or bowling rather than the church basement envelope stuffer parties and the storefront politico's headquarters.

Whether I exaggerate will be seen in November. But what if I'd said, a year or two past, that dems would outflank the republicans in fundraising by such a degree or that twice as many dems would come out to vote in primaries and caucuses or that the dems would love their final two candidates almost universally whereas the republicans would, in serious numbers, be so unhappy with theirs?

You really ought to heed me, you know. My odd ability to predict futures is verging on the mirahuckulous.

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Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You don't understand okie, it is irrelevant to blatham whether or not Maher should be considered funny (although I suspect he gets a big kick out of him). He is of the opinion that Coulter is an agent of evil as is evidenced by the fact that she has engaged, throughout, our life in activities and jobs associated with conservative positions.

Exhibit A: She is founder of [etc].

OK, that was funny Very Happy

Must have taken some time too. Kudos Smile

(But yeah, I nevertheless agree with Blatham that Coulter plays a role in the conservative political movement that goes just a tad further than being a "comedian and performance artist"...)

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Quote:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/09/colin-powell-may-support-democrat-or-independent-in-%e2%80%9808/

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Oh, and georgie, I forgetted to mention this tidbit...

Quote:

House Republicans approach record departures
By Rob Hotakainen | McClatchy Newspapers

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/27125.html

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blatham wrote:

[
Quote:
quote] Huckabee's supporters have no where else to go. Some will spout and fume, but they have always been taken more seriously by Democrats than Republicans
.

Um...the astute and insightful comment above was what my last post was mainly speaking to. They do have somewhere else to go. Home or bowling rather than the church basement envelope stuffer parties and the storefront politico's headquarters.

Whether I exaggerate will be seen in November. But what if I'd said, a year or two past, that dems would outflank the republicans in fundraising by such a degree or that twice as many dems would come out to vote in primaries and caucuses or that the dems would love their final two candidates almost universally whereas the republicans would, in serious numbers, be so unhappy with theirs?

You really ought to heed me, you know. My odd ability to predict futures is verging on the mirahuckulous.[/quote]

Well you may yet be proven right. The polls are often later demonstrated to have been wrong, but right now they are not with you. If the Obamania we are seeing continues its ascent your prediction may well come true.

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There are some, my poor maltreated wife being one, who carry anxiety regarding "Obamamania". I am free of this burden. In the late sixties in Canada, we had "Trudeaumania". It worked out very well indeed. Our affinities and intuitions proved accurate.

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nimh wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
Well, perhaps we can agree that at least you find it embarrassing.

Ha! I'm glad you're not embarassed, but it's hardly just me - have you seen the media headlines today?

I've obviously not seen ALL the media headlines, but I've glanced through the Real Clear Politics links, and don't see the word "embarrassment" there. Not sure that indicates anything, one way or another, but I'm also sure you would be able to find one if not more opinion headlines out there that are supportive of your views in this regard.

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Huckabee lawyers enroute to Washington State to demand investigation of vote counts and vote cessation.

A huck of a mess.

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It is both fortunate and unfortunate that these intra-party squabbles don't seem to turn into the real donnybrooks we all crave.

The Democrats have been more successful than I had hoped they would in tamping down the sparks that were previously flying over race and sexism.

The nasty tag team of McCain and Huckabee against Romney, never achieved critical mass.

Somehow Hillary and the Party Elders were able to shut the yap of Billy Boy, and thereby extinguish a great source for conflagration.

Gulianni never got close enough to trigger the otherwise inevitable ugly confrontation with evangelicals.

Huckabee has no miracle in his pocket and he will, before too long, be offered what he needs (less than VP) to bow out gracefully. The Radio Conservatives will continue to bluster for a little while longer and then find a way to save their pride and still get in line.

I think everyone has to admit that the super delegate situation has the most potential for really screwing up one party's chances to prevail, but the damned Democrats will probably manage to keep that from blowing up as well.

We can always hope though. Look how good the Superbowl turned out.

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You've an attractive spirit, finn. I read your words and imagine a hunchback all covered in bluebells.

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Ticomaya wrote:

I've obviously not seen ALL the media headlines, but I've glanced through the Real Clear Politics links, and don't see the word "embarrassment" there. Not sure that indicates anything, one way or another, but I'm also sure you would be able to find one if not more opinion headlines out there that are supportive of your views in this regard.

I dont feel like actively looking up things, I'm trying to be less anal.. but from browsing through Google News last night, I certainly got the impression that McCain's losses right after his de facto anointment were described as a bit of an embarassment.

But according to you the media did not report McCain's losses as a rather embarassing happenstance? Is that what you're saying? How did you feel they reported it, then?

But sure, even if I'm not going to Google, what I can do at least is just copy/paste what I have in open windows right now (I always have a bunch of windows open) - by ways of highly anecdotal evidence. This is from the Washington Times, for example, so no liberal sarcasm suspected:

Quote:

Coronation on hold: McCain loses 2

Just days after being anointed the all-but-certain Republican presidential nominee, Sen. John McCain failed his first big test, losing Kansas' caucuses and Louisiana's primaries yesterday to Mike Huckabee.

That seems to be pretty representative of the tone of the coverage on Saturday's primaries.

And this one from the Washington Post got the actual word "embarassing" and everything: :wink:

Quote:

[President Bush's] comments were aimed at helping the presumptive Republican nominee woo the party's skeptical base of conservatives, a difficult task evidenced by the veteran Arizona senator's embarassing, but largely symbolic, losses the night before to rival Mike Huckabee.

Yeah. The losses wont stop McCain getting the nomination of course, but they were rather embarassing for him, especially right after Romney dropped out and left him the anointed frontrunner. Thats pretty much the summary the way I've seen it.

(I got a Washington Monthly item on it too that uses a lot stronger words, like "stunning rebuke" and voters "thumbing their noses at McCain", but that's from a moderate/liberal blog so I'll just skip it.)

But again, in the media coverage you've seen there was no sense of the results being embarassing for McCain at all, then?

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blatham wrote:

Huckabee lawyers enroute to Washington State to demand investigation of vote counts and vote cessation.

A huck of a mess.

What is that about? Does anyone know why they can't seem to figure out how to count the votes? And why are lawyers needed?

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okie wrote:

blatham wrote:
Huckabee lawyers enroute to Washington State to demand investigation of vote counts and vote cessation.

A huck of a mess.

What is that about? Does anyone know why they can't seem to figure out how to count the votes? And why are lawyers needed?

Here's one account...

Quote:

Huck fights on, sends lawyers to Washington
Filed under: Mike Huckabee
Just when you thought it was over, Mike Huckabee not only scores a series of wins, but takes the gloves off in the closely-contested Washington caucuses.

Washington State GOP chair Luke Esser halted the ballot count with 87 percent reporting and McCain with a razor-thin lead. In a tersely worded statement, Huckabee decried this decision and shipped lawyers to the Pacific Northwest to contest matters.

Calling the count "dubious" and citing numerous "irregularities," Huckabee vowed to soldier on. This is curious, because many assumed that Huck had packed it in and was essentially running for the vice presidential nomination at this point. Mathematically, he's still in it, but the likelihood of the former Arkansas governor actually securing the nomination at this point are very slim. Seems like an odd decision on his part.

On the other hand, the Washington State GOP decision is worse than odd. It's disenfranchisement, pure and simple. The comments on Team Huckabee's official blog show that his supporters are incensed. Also, some are a little unhinged. (The "McCain falsified his war record" kooks are out, along with some other pretty gross anti-McCain comments). But in this case, they certainly have a right to be upset about a race that was inexplicably called too soon -- not by the media, but by the party itself.

http://blogs.citypages.com/gop/2008/02/huck_fights_on.php

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No, Nimh. I don't see the results from Saturday as being a "rebuke" of McCain. Just the way the schedule worked out geograpically.

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I find it very weird that the votes aren't counted. I think Huckabee has every right to dig into that.

In regard to embarrassment:

"Although he suffered a big embarrassment today, McCain is far out in front in the race for delegates, with 719 to Huckabee's 234."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/livecoverage/

McCain may suffer further embarrassment if Huckabee stays in as he says he is going to do.

And I think the Washington primary problem could potentially turn out to be an embarrassment to McCain as well, if this ends up not being very explainable. The weird part of this is that there is very little news coverage of this, in comparison to what it should be. At this point, we have no reason to conclude anything crooked, probably just ineptness, but how are we supposed to know? After all, how hard can it be to count a few hundred votes?

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More and more it looks like God has told Huckabee to stay in the race.

I'm sure whatever embarassment McCain may or may not have felt after yesterday's results, I'm sure it will be forgotten when he stands before a cheering crowd of thousands chanting his name.

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realjohnboy wrote:

No, Nimh. I don't see the results from Saturday as being a "rebuke" of McCain.

Um. The rebuke thing was exactly the part I put within brackets as coming from a liberal blog, and thus probably not being representative.

But a bit of an embarassment, sure - I see Okie just added another quote on that.

I disagree that it was just a question of geography - I mean, this was hardly foretold. Just days before the primaries, Huckabee seemed to actually have given up on Louisiana. And Washington State is far away from any place Huckabee had done well in so far - previously he'd done lousily in the West. Just a week ago, McCain was polling 40% there, and Huckabee 17%; in the end the difference was 2%.

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Finn dAbuzz wrote:

More and more it looks like God has told Huckabee to stay in the race.

I'm sure whatever embarassment McCain may or may not have felt after yesterday's results, I'm sure it will be forgotten when he stands before a cheering crowd of thousands chanting his name.

Don't forget the thousands that aren't there, Finn.

Look, I will give McCain a serious and fair look, but lets be serious, he is having trouble getting 50% of the vote in any of his own party's primary, in fact, has he ever achieved over 50%?, not even in his home state of Arizona.

This problem that I discuss here as "okie" has alot more to it than just what I am pointing out. It has to do with a very deep problem with his candidacy. Unless he obtains a huge crossover vote from the Democrats, he has absolutely no chance whatsoever, it will be a landslide loss in my opinion. In order to get a large crossover vote, he will end up pandering to that crossover vote. He will lose the Republican base. In so doing, he risks changing the entire face of the party. I concede this may be inevitable as the shift to the left occurs in the general population, which I am convinced is a fact.

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okie wrote:

I find it very weird that the votes aren't counted. I think Huckabee has every right to dig into that.

In regard to embarrassment:

"Although he suffered a big embarrassment today, McCain is far out in front in the race for delegates, with 719 to Huckabee's 234."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/livecoverage/

McCain may suffer further embarrassment if Huckabee stays in as he says he is going to do.

And I think the Washington primary problem could potentially turn out to be an embarrassment to McCain as well, if this ends up not being very explainable. The weird part of this is that there is very little news coverage of this, in comparison to what it should be. At this point, we have no reason to conclude anything crooked, probably just ineptness, but how are we supposed to know? After all, how hard can it be to count a few hundred votes?

I don't know any of the details in Washington, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the problem there is a similar one they had in New Mexico where a caucus workers took the boxes home with them. We're still waiting on the final results there too.

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nimh wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
I've obviously not seen ALL the media headlines, but I've glanced through the Real Clear Politics links, and don't see the word "embarrassment" there. Not sure that indicates anything, one way or another, but I'm also sure you would be able to find one if not more opinion headlines out there that are supportive of your views in this regard.

I dont feel like actively looking up things, I'm trying to be less anal.. but from browsing through Google News last night, I certainly got the impression that McCain's losses right after his de facto anointment were described as a bit of an embarassment.

But according to you the media did not report McCain's losses as a rather embarassing happenstance? Is that what you're saying? How did you feel they reported it, then?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't give a rats ass how the media reported it ... I also am not swayed by opinion polls, if you're keeping score at home.

If you and okie find it "embarrassing," great ... if you find comfort that others -- newspaper reporters, even -- share your views, I'm glad for you. I don't share your -- or their -- view on the matter. I say we leave it at that.

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A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

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