A first(?) thread on 2008: McCain,Giuliani & the Republicans

What do you expect.

You are trying to find people best suited tempermentally to deal with the lands outside your shores.

I hope you don't think your virtues and principles would be suitable for such a task.

I suspect you underestimate the stunning ability of this modern "party of the principled" to happily toss most principles overboard in order to keep or achieve power.

I had to teach New York City how to use principles of fiscal conservatism.

Maybe so. It wouldn't be the first time that I've done so.

It's difficult however to believe that a large percentage of independent voters would be similarly swayed, however. I could understand him getting the nomination. I can't see him winning the general, at all.

I have a vision in my head of Giuliani-Obama; when asked why he isn't going Negative against Giuliani, Obama could easily respond "There simply isn't enough time to list the negatives in the next few months."

Cycloptichorn

"What Peter says about Paul usually tells you more about Peter than Paul," Romney said. "Mayor Giuliani has a fact problem, meaning that he makes them up."

...Either McCain or Romney might be, in some ways, good presidents. They'd have to drop the extremist pretenses they've adopted to get the nominations, which won't be all that easy, aside from my hope of that being possibly naive.

blatham wrote:

...Either McCain or Romney might be, in some ways, good presidents. They'd have to drop the extremist pretenses they've adopted to get the nominations, which won't be all that easy, aside from my hope of that being possibly naive.

Do you believe the same thing might be said about the Democrat candidates with respect to their extreme segments? Or perhaps you believe they are all the living embodiment of moderation?

I have a vision in my head of Giuliani-Obama; when asked why he isn't going Negative against Giuliani, Obama could easily respond "There simply isn't enough time to list the negatives in the next few months."

Cycloptichorn

Republican uncertainty amid a push by Giuliani

Candidate steps up Iowa push, complicating Romney's efforts to nail victory

MSNBC/New York Times
Nov. 22, 2007

With a surge of radio advertisements, telephone calls and mailings, Rudolph W. Giuliani is stepping up his efforts to compete in the Iowa Republican caucuses, complicating Mitt Romney's effort to nail down a clean victory here and underscoring the fluid nature of the contest less than seven weeks from the voting.

Mr. Giuliani's advisers have tried for months to dampen expectations about how well he would do in Iowa, suggesting he was campaigning only nominally here and focusing on later states. But Iowa Republicans described a more concerted if below-the-radar effort that indicates Mr. Giuliani is looking to post a surprise showing in this state to undercut Mr. Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, and Mike Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas, both running strongly in early Iowa polls.

In one sign of this, the Giuliani campaign held an hourlong session here this week to train supporters in the complicated procedures for the party caucuses Jan. 3.

The moves have come at a time of growing uncertainty in the Iowa Republican contest, with Mr. Huckabee and former Senator Fred D. Thompson of Tennessee stepping up their spending and organizing. And there are growing signs that it will be largely fought over illegal immigration, the issue that was named as a top concern by Iowa Republican caucusgoers in a New York Times/CBS News poll last week and that Senator John McCain of Arizona has blamed for his inability to compete seriously here. Mr. Romney, Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Thompson, in mailing or television advertisements, highlighted illegal immigration as a major problem facing the country. [..]

At this point, Mr. Romney's aides said, he has no intention of directly taking on either Mr. Giuliani or Mr. Huckabee with television advertisements ?- attacks in a multicandidate race can be risky, especially since Iowa voters often turn away from candidates they view as negative. [..]

But in one clear sign of concern, Mr. Romney has in recent days sent a mailing to Republican households that was intended to raise concerns about Mr. Giuliani's record on immigration when he was mayor of New York. "Welcome to New York City!" the mailing reads, the words implanted on a jarring photograph of Times Square at night. "Sanctuary Cities are Magnets for Illegal immigration."

Mr. Giuliani responded with his own mailing to caucusgoers, headlined with a pledge, "I will end illegal immigration and secure our borders without granting amnesty."

Adding to the unsettled atmosphere here, Mr. McCain is now planning to spend a minimal number of days in Iowa in December, effectively writing off the state, an associate said. That could be at least marginally helpful to Mr. Giuliani since both he and Mr. McCain have been trying to win over centrist Republican voters. [..]

Three-way split?

The prospect of a three-way split of the conservative vote among Mr. Romney, Mr. Huckabee and Mr. Thompson also provides an opening for Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Thompson won the endorsement of the National Right to Life Committee last week. But the development that has most intrigued Republicans here is watching Mr. Giuliani attempt to compete without raising expectations that he could win. "He is trying to run a stealth campaign," said Doug Gross, the chairman of Mr. Romney's Iowa campaign.

Mr. Giuliani's advisers said the possibility of a split among conservatives had led them to believe that he could post a relatively strong showing here that even if short of a victory could deny Mr. Romney the chance to rally Republicans around him heading into New Hampshire and the contests that follow.

Mr. Giuliani's campaign has methodically played down its interest in Iowa. He has spent 16 days here this year, compared with 57 days by Mr. Romney, according to statistics kept by the Iowa Democratic Party. He did not compete in the Iowa straw poll this summer, and has yet to run any television advertising here (he began running commercials in New Hampshire this week).

But it is typical these days to turn on a country music or talk radio station and hear an advertisement for Mr. Giuliani, typically what appears to be a snippet of Mr. Giuliani talking at a campaign event about illegal immigration. Republicans said they regularly receive mailings and telephone calls from Mr. Giuliani's campaign. He is in regular contact with talk show hosts and influential political reporters.

"I would say I've talked more on the phone with Rudy Giuliani than with the other candidates," said Kay Henderson of Radio Iowa, noting that she was able to interview the other candidates more in person.

Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Romney have the same number of full-time employees, about 12 (though Mr. Romney also has a network of part-time paid consultants), and each has two offices. At Drake University this week, about 30 people came out to sit for an hour while Mr. Giuliani's staff handed out packets of information as part of a training session in how to participate in the caucus. The decision to hold the caucus-training session was seen by many Republicans here as the surest confirmation yet that Mr. Giuliani was playing.

"Giuliani is putting increased emphasis on Iowa, and he is getting good, solid Republican support," said Senator Charles E. Grassley, the Iowa Republican, who has yet to endorse any of the candidates. [..]

Just up to get ready for a very early airport pickup for a weekend trip to Manhattan. A tranquil cup of coffee to get started; check the calendar to get the flight # & record a couple of phone #s -- and a quick pass to A2K.

Bernie,

I have only a vague idea of who Randy Newman is and no interest at all in what he says or does.

No one appointed or elected you as the arbitor of relevance, or of logic as it may relate to your particular concepts of what the dialogue is about. You simply didn't like the reference to your own prejudices and the ponderous platitudes to which they sometimes lead you. I, with brotherly affection and concern, tried to point it out to you. Your latent authoritarianism is showing.

And this is mainly for george though I think everyone might want to drop their keyboards, grab their wives or lovers or if no such is available, a flag will do, and dance up a slow storm, a slow patriotic storm no less, compliments of His Excellency Randy Newman... "A Few Words In Defence Of Our Country"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OldToIF5ZGs

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."

Democrats' health plans echo Nixon's failed GOP proposal
By Kevin G. Hall | McClatchy Newspapers
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007

WASHINGTON ?- Even before Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton unveiled her new health-care plan, Republicans attacked it as socialized medicine. They neglected to mention, however, that her plan bears a striking resemblance to changes that were proposed in 1974 ?- by the late President Richard M. Nixon.

"It was an extremely extensive plan, as I remember, that would have given universal coverage" for health care, recalled Rudolph Penner, a former director of the Congressional Budget Office and economic official in the Ford administration.

Things have changed a lot. The following excerpts from the Republican Party Platform of 1972 can seem a bit odd from the perspective of 2007:

[Unions are good]
The skill, industry and productivity of American workers are the driving force of our free economy. The Nation's labor unions, comprised of millions of working people, have advanced the well-being not only of their members but also of our entire free-enterprise system. We of the Republican Party reaffirm our strong endorsement of Organized Labor's key role in our national life.

We salute the statesmanship of the labor union movement. Time and time again, at crucial moments, it has voiced its outspoken support for a firm and effective foreign policy and for keeping the Armed Forces of the United States modern and strong.

The American labor movement and the Republican Party have always worked against the spread of totalitarian forms of government. Together we can continue to preserve in America the best system of government ever devised for human happiness and fulfillment.

We are for the right of American workers and their families to enjoy and to retain to the greatest possible extent the rewards of their own labor.

We regard collective bargaining as the cornerstone of the Nation's labor relations policy. The government's role is not to encroach upon this process but rather to aid the differing parties to make collective bargaining more effective both for themselves and for the public. In furtherance of that concept, we will continue to develop procedures whereby the imagination, ingenuity and knowledge of labor and management can more effectively seek solutions for such problems as structural adjustment and productivity.
...


From its beginning, our Party has led the way for equal rights and equal opportunity. This great tradition has been carried forward by the Nixon Administration.
...

[we really like latinos]
In recognition of the significant contributions to our country by our proud and independent Spanish-speaking citizens, we have developed a comprehensive program to help achieve equal opportunity.
...

[we really like bilingual education]
To provide the same learning opportunities enjoyed by other American children, we have increased bilingual education programs almost six-fold since 1969. We initiated a 16-point employment program to help Spanish-speaking workers, created the National Economic Development Association to promote Spanish-speaking business development and expanded economic development opportunities in Spanish-speaking communities.

We will work for the use of bilingual staffs in localities where this language capability is desirable for effective health care.

8:30 PM What's the emotional equivalent of "tone deaf"? Mitt Romney has that.