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The 'N word' briefly revisited

 
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:03 am
Oh I think it makes very good sense. But we grownups can agree to disagree, can't we? As to the answer to your question - I answered it, you just didn't like the way I framed my "yes", as I didn't like the way you framed the question.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:05 am
If it's a "yes", that makes a difference to me. If you're saying that white people can and should use "nigger" in the same way black people use it with each other, then your trumpeting of Chris Rock's statement makes a little more sense... though that's new to me. (All of my reading and first-hand experience has been towards no no no do NOT use that word in that way...)
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:07 am
white kids use the word nigga now because it's been made into a cool word. Not nigger, nigga. ( and there's a whole other thread on the stupidity of that)

Guess who's made it into a cool word? Black comedians and black rappers. If you want lily white Trevor in the suburbs to fork over daddies money and buy the cd's and finance your rich gangsta lifestyle fellas, better get used to the idea that Trevor is going to say nigga once in a while. But never nigger, that would be racist.... Laughing

btw a lot of these "gangstas" have marketing degrees. :wink:
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:12 am
sozobe wrote:
If it's a "yes", that makes a difference to me. If you're saying that white people can and should use "nigger" in the same way black people use it with each other, then your trumpeting of Chris Rock's statement makes a little more sense... though that's new to me. (All of my reading and first-hand experience has been towards no no no do NOT use that word in that way...)


See, the thing is Sozobe - no one can decide for you. The "rightness" or wrongness of the use of the word has to be conceived in the individual heart - in the individual circumstance. Good luck with that.

The central point remains unassailed - whites can't use it as comfortably as blacks - their outrage with that stems at least partially from a sense of
privilege that evidently a lot of them can't even admit to.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:14 am
Why can't it be that whites don't like the word because they've seen it has ill effects -- and so avoid using it?

I'll even amend that to "some", since I already brought up an example of the kind of person I can imagine it rankling, a white comic who wants to use the word and can't and is pissed about it.

So I'm not saying that it can't be true for some whites.

But ALL?
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:16 am
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
white kids use the word nigga now because it's been made into a cool word. Not nigger, nigga. ( and there's a whole other thread on the stupidity of that)

Guess who's made it into a cool word? Black comedians and black rappers. If you want lily white Trevor in the suburbs to fork over daddies money and buy the cd's and finance your rich gangsta lifestyle fellas, better get used to the idea that Trevor is going to say nigga once in a while. But never nigger, that would be racist.... Laughing

btw a lot of these "gangstas" have marketing degrees. :wink:


Glad someone brought up the (maybe) hundred or-so millionaires that the gangster rap genre has produced, and that the biggest purchasers of it are suburban white youths. Oh yes, it is a fascinating thing, and it too doesn't affect the central point of this thread. Whites cannot use the word as comfortably as blacks - never have, never will. There is deep discomfort with that fact among whites. That discomfort stems partially from a sense of privilege.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:17 am
Oh and I readiy admit to privilege. Sure, of course, made that point myself a zillion times.

Just, that doesn't lead to any rankling that I can't use the word. The research and first-hand knowledge that led me to the conclusion that whites, as a group, are privileged is the same research and first-hand knowledge that led me to the conclusion that it's not a good idea to use the word "nigger" in the way that it is used among black people.

Doesn't rankle in the least.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:18 am
most white people don't use the word because they're afraid of getting an ass whipping and that's because of their blind acceptance of the fact that black people are so much more violent and tough than they.... bullshit and more racism and ignorance.

This is another stereotype perpetrated by the black entertainment community and picked up on and bought into by the community at large because in this case it makes racism work for them. More bullshit.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:19 am
sozobe wrote:
Why can't it be that whites don't like the word because they've seen it has ill effects -- and so avoid using it?

I'll even amend that to "some", since I already brought up an example of the kind of person I can imagine it rankling, a white comic who wants to use the word and can't and is pissed about it.

So I'm not saying that it can't be true for some whites.

But ALL?


I can concede that there are exceptions to everything.

But in your attempt at explanation above, you didn't say "some whites", either.
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shari6905
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:21 am
I just found this topic and I guess you could say that I am interested. I have heard white comics say the word "nigga". When imitating a thug or gangsta. Just as comics like Chris Rock imitate whites as the straight laced yuppy. I would like to believe that these acts of humor are perpetuating anything negative in our children, but I would be wrong. As far as adults go I think that we can laugh at cultural differences and not take ourselves so seriously but kids have a different take on things. Then again, I dont know what parent would let their child watch Chris Rock at an influential age of ...say...13.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:23 am
snood wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
white kids use the word nigga now because it's been made into a cool word. Not nigger, nigga. ( and there's a whole other thread on the stupidity of that)

Guess who's made it into a cool word? Black comedians and black rappers. If you want lily white Trevor in the suburbs to fork over daddies money and buy the cd's and finance your rich gangsta lifestyle fellas, better get used to the idea that Trevor is going to say nigga once in a while. But never nigger, that would be racist.... Laughing

btw a lot of these "gangstas" have marketing degrees. :wink:


Glad someone brought up the (maybe) hundred or-so millionaires that the gangster rap genre has produced, and that the biggest purchasers of it are suburban white youths. Oh yes, it is a fascinating thing, and it too doesn't affect the central point of this thread. Whites cannot use the word as comfortably as blacks - never have, never will. There is deep discomfort with that fact among whites. That discomfort stems partially from a sense of privilege.


and those few hundred people have manipulated literally millions of people of all races and taken their money. I guess that proves the underlying problem behind ALL racial issues. We crackers and you niggers are by and large a pack of dumb shits. Laughing Laughing

Finally, common ground. Oops.. sorry... I meant nigga.... Embarrassed
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:27 am
Wha?

That's been my point throughout. "General", "exaggeration,"

sozobe wrote:
Is there ANY room for a non-racist white person in this formulation?


Could've said "yes" at the outset, all done.

But, cool.

Oh and I'd prefer you keep your "personal comments" on the thread rather than via PMs. Thanks.
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flushd
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:28 am
blueveinedthrobber,
Actually, I hear a lot of folks saying Nigger. Not just nigga.

That was my whole point.

snood puts up this joke. He thinks it rings very true. Ok. Cool.
But it isn't that way everywhere or to everyone...

To some of us it is just a word like "white".

Call it marketing schemes, and silliness, but it has squashed some of the power of that word.

And who is buying the CD's and track suits? Eh, mostly kids from different backgrounds with money in their pockets, and of all colors and races.

So.....I'm sorry, but it just upsets me, snood......
You say "whites don't get to decide when or if its cool to use the word, they don't like it, and that angst has to do with their sense of privilege. "

That is just incorrect! I think that is part of the power of the joke......that whites DO get a say in whether the word is said or is cool or if they like it.
And so do Asians. And so do 'insert-race-here'.

Anybody can say what they like....and many do...be it PC or not...and sometimes the words are hurtful and mean. Sometimes they are not. Sometimes the one being adressed (or simply within hearing distance) will be offended. Sometimes not.
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shari6905
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:38 am
I agree, back in the 70s the words cracker and honky were just about as popular as the word nigga is now. Those words phased themselves out. Can we say the same thing about the N word...who knows. Eventually there will be a different derogatory saying that will take its place. I grew up in a predominantly white area and I never heard that word as anything but bad until I joined the Navy. I was friends with everyone, no matter the age race or sex. I found that in the mix of conversation with my black friends there were statements "You know you my nigga" and "you know you my boo" That was to me Very Happy. Anyhow, I have even heard my husband (who is white) say that to his black friends and I suppose in that aspect it would be a term of endearment. Under those circumstances I am proud that 2 people of a different race can get together and laugh and throw out any preconceived notions they may have.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 12:01 pm
One thing I said bothers me a bit, about blatham and convolutions -- I am often in the same position, when something is said that is being jumped on and I think there are some nuggets of truth in them, I'll want to point out the nuggets of truth.

So I understand that.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 02:51 pm
blatham wrote:
deb

I don't see something stronger in snood's posts, other than perhaps a more viserceral distaste for that word when spoken by us paleskins and I know that would be as understandable to you as to me.

When I went back to university the feminist project was concentrating acutely on the sexist components of language. I was entirely sympathetic with the endeavor, if not all of the conclusions and assumptions, and joined in a lot of conversations quite like this one.

I argued then, as I did here earlier, that terms like nigger or fag or girl have to be hijacked by the very people to whom they refer in order for those people to disarm the terms within their own communities - to invert them into signifiers of uniqueness and community bond and pride.

But I went a bit further too, and argued that this inversion/disarming would be assisted if folks like me (white, straight, male) who shared the loathing for the earlier uses of the terms, began to use them (sparingly, pointedly) in the same ways as the minority communities were coming to use them. Tricky stuff. And like always, the 'appropriateness' of what comes out of my mouth is dependent upon who is standing in front of me at that moment.





Huh? Sure...nobody has to tell me about the power of words.

And I get the joke.

My cavil was about all paleskins having angst about "not being able to" use the word.


Who exactly has angst?

I am aware the the nouveau politically correct crowd do.....and I imagine the people I referred to earlier in a post I don't have time to look up..the pus crowd, for want of a better word, do.....but I do not imagine that a huge number of people do.....people who are aware (even from this distance) of the history of the word, and would no more want to use it than we would any other deeply offensive word.


Just like you stopped using sexist words when you became aware of their offensiveness.

Sure, there are a whole lot of words around the fringes of great political movements that seem to shift around, and can easily irritate people because they seem nitpicky....but the big ones, like nigger, slut, kike etc...well, who the hell but an idiot wants to all people that? Where's the angst, except amongst people who bathe and delight in their prejudices and ignorance?


As for people who call women "ho's".....
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 03:14 pm
I was raised in segragation country-Virginia in the 60's

My mother taught illiterate blacks to read through the Laubach Literacy program. My folks marched for civil rights. I was raised to eschew and despise the n word.I still do. I don't care if it's cool and I sidle away from those that use it.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 03:16 pm
panzade wrote:
I was raised in segragation country-Virginia in the 60's

My mother taught illiterate blacks to read through the Laubach Literacy program. My folks marched for civil rights. I was raised to eschew and despise the n word.I still do. I don't care if it's cool and I sidle away from those that use it.

Blacks and whites?
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 03:21 pm
Interesting - I've been black all my life, and I spend my days around young adults, white and black (and etcetera). I have never experienced any non-blacks using that word with ease, the way so many of you claim to. Guess I need to get out more. Or I'm not the one full of it here.

And Sozobe, I'd prefer you didn't visit threads I start. So much for our personal preferences, eh?
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Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 03:25 pm
panzade wrote:
I was raised in segragation country-Virginia in the 60's

My mother taught illiterate blacks to read through the Laubach Literacy program. My folks marched for civil rights. I was raised to eschew and despise the n word.I still do. I don't care if it's cool and I sidle away from those that use it.
I'm with panzade. It's just my personal experience with the word and where and how I grew up.
0 Replies
 
 

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