parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 10:41 am
McGentrix wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
Personally, I don't actually care if the president, any president, is disrespected in public or in private.


That would appear to be a key difference then. I, and many others, DO care when the President is disrespected. Regardless of party affiliation.

OMG. That one is a howler McG.. The funniest thing I have ever seen you post.

You did mean it to be funny, didn't you?
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 10:59 am
blatham wrote:
Quote:
Accusing the president of being a liar ("weapon of misdirection") in a public forum does not constitute being "delivered with grace", although I would agree that Bush took it with grace.


"Liar" wasn't the word. "Misdirection" was the word.


Actually "weapon of misdirection" was the phrase. I'm curious how you would interpret that if not as lying? Did Clinton just "misdirect" when he said "I did not have sex with that woman"? Did Scooter Libby or Abramoff just "misdirect" when they gave their testimony to the Grand Jury?

blatham wrote:

And if Bush is guilty of "misdirection", what then? What does free speech actually mean and entail?


Rolling Eyes I've never implied that Lowery or anyone else was not entitled to free speech. In fact, what I've said...twice now....is that voicing political positions at a funeral is OK.

I have problems with people who feel slander or defamation is appropriate in a funeral setting. So I take it you agree that slanderous statements is OK at somone's funeral? Is there any speech not appropriate at the funeral? For example, if one were to slander MLK at the funeral would that have been OK, in your opinion?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 11:05 am
McGentrix wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
Personally, I don't actually care if the president, any president, is disrespected in public or in private.


That would appear to be a key difference then. I, and many others, DO care when the President is disrespected. Regardless of party affiliation.

The office deserves respect as the President is the representative of every citizen of the US. Especially in public forums.

We just hold different opinions.


Clearly. While the office of president may deserve respect, the man who holds it does not necessarily deserve the same. And of course "deserving respect" is in the eye of the beholder.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 11:21 am
Brandon9000 wrote:

Of all the U.S. presidents, Bush has put more black people in high positions in his administration than any other.
It all depends on how you define "high". Clinton appointed more black cabinet members. Bush appointed more black Sec of State than any other President. That is about Bush's only accomplishment in the record of "high" positions and African Americans. There are presently 2 African Americans on Bush's cabinet. I count 4 total during his presidency. Rod Paige, Colin Powell, Condi Rice and Alphonso Jackson.

Clinton had at least 7 black cabinet members; Ron Brown, Jesse Brown, Togo West, Alexis Herman, Ron Espy, Rodney Slater and Hazel O'Leary during his presidency.


"High" positions is a red herring to try to make Bush look like he did more than others.


Bush's record on cabinet level or low level appointments isn't nearly as good as Clinton's when it comes to blacks and minorities.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 11:37 am
parados wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:

Of all the U.S. presidents, Bush has put more black people in high positions in his administration than any other.
It all depends on how you define "high". Clinton appointed more black cabinet members. Bush appointed more black Sec of State than any other President. That is about Bush's only accomplishment in the record of "high" positions and African Americans. There are presently 2 African Americans on Bush's cabinet. I count 4 total during his presidency. Rod Paige, Colin Powell, Condi Rice and Alphonso Jackson.

Clinton had at least 7 black cabinet members; Ron Brown, Jesse Brown, Togo West, Alexis Herman, Ron Espy, Rodney Slater and Hazel O'Leary during his presidency.


"High" positions is a red herring to try to make Bush look like he did more than others.


Bush's record on cabinet level or low level appointments isn't nearly as good as Clinton's when it comes to blacks and minorities.


Clearly, Bush is just another racist Republican.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 11:41 am
McGentrix wrote:


Clearly, Bush is just another racist Republican.

If that is your conclusion McG and you want to disresepect the President, I can't help you.

You might want to refer back to this statement by you...

Quote:
That would appear to be a key difference then. I, and many others, DO care when the President is disrespected. Regardless of party affiliation.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 11:49 am
That would appear to be a key difference then. I, and many others, DO care when the President is disrespected. Regardless of party affiliation.



I used to feel the same way, until Bush got in.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 11:51 am
McG saying he cares when a president is disrepected is laughable, considered the scurrilous language he uses against the Clintons. Unless, of course, he only minds disrespect about current presidents...
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 11:54 am
D'artagnan wrote:
Unless, of course, he only minds disrespect about current presidents...


Have you seen any of my posts disrespecting Clinton when was President?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 11:55 am
parados wrote:
McGentrix wrote:


Clearly, Bush is just another racist Republican.

If that is your conclusion McG and you want to disresepect the President, I can't help you.

You might want to refer back to this statement by you...

Quote:
That would appear to be a key difference then. I, and many others, DO care when the President is disrespected. Regardless of party affiliation.


Just reading into your words parados. Translating what you and others of your ilk have been trying to say.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 12:12 pm
slkshock7 said
Quote:
Actually "weapon of misdirection" was the phrase. I'm curious how you would interpret that if not as lying? Did Clinton just "misdirect" when he said "I did not have sex with that woman"? Did Scooter Libby or Abramoff just "misdirect" when they gave their testimony to the Grand Jury?


"Misdirection" doesn't have to mean lying (as in a magic show) but it can imply or refer to lying. In the case of WOMD held by Iraq, I consider that what the Bush administration was guilty of, and still is on a continuing basis, as lying. I consider that that same term also applies to Clinton's statement you reference. Libby appears to have lied as well, but I'll leave that to Fitzgerald and the courts.

Quote:
I've never implied that Lowery or anyone else was not entitled to free speech. In fact, what I've said...twice now....is that voicing political positions at a funeral is OK.

I have problems with people who feel slander or defamation is appropriate in a funeral setting. So I take it you agree that slanderous statements is OK at somone's funeral? Is there any speech not appropriate at the funeral? For example, if one were to slander MLK at the funeral would that have been OK, in your opinion?


"Slander" entails, by definition, some falsehood. "Libel" as well. Per what I wrote above, neither term would apply.

I don't know what we could establish, concretely or absolutely, might constitute forbidden speech at a funeral particularly given the range of social customs that exist. Take a funeral for a dead soldier for example. One could speak of the glorious cause or of the total crap cause for which the young person died. It would depend on what that family and that community in attendance considered appropriate.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 12:36 pm
So, if a soldiers funeral was televised accross the country and around the world and a couple of speakers went on about the great cause that soldier died for and how he helped so many through so much and another speaker scorned the evils of the whiny liberals who spurned the soldier and wished that he failed... We could expect to not hear a peep from you guys?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 12:41 pm
I imagine such funerals happen every day, and I haven't heard any peeps. Have you?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 12:42 pm
Liberals do not all want the soldiers to fail anyway. They do want Bush to admit his failure, however.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 12:47 pm
McGentrix wrote:
So, if a soldiers funeral was televised accross the country and around the world and a couple of speakers went on about the great cause that soldier died for and how he helped so many through so much and another speaker scorned the evils of the whiny liberals who spurned the soldier and wished that he failed... We could expect to not hear a peep from you guys?


Oh no. I might well speak to the matter (though you portray a case which is somewhat different...including a generalization about liberals rather than a specific targetting of an individual).

I might speak to why I think the opinion stated was wrong. I might also lean towards denigration of the speaker's point on the principle which I hold that war-mongering (if I think it that) is a deep evil along with that complimentary overdone allegiance to some leader which is always present in vein-chewing enthusiastic soldiering.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 01:36 pm
blatham wrote:
If Bush took it with grace (and he did) and if it was delivered with grace (and it was), then why don't you guys settle back and take it with that same grace.

In Germany, such reactions are called "being more Catholic than the Pope".
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 01:48 pm
Well, until this pope, that was at least possible.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 06:25 pm
blatham wrote:
"In the case of WOMD held by Iraq, I consider that what the Bush administration was guilty of, and still is on a continuing basis, as lying. I consider that that same term also applies to Clinton's statement you reference. Libby appears to have lied as well, but I'll leave that to Fitzgerald and the courts.


Well I don't think he is lying...so in that case, I guess my point still stands.

blatham wrote:

"Slander" entails, by definition, some falsehood. "Libel" as well. Per what I wrote above, neither term would apply.


And by what I wrote above, it would....so please address the general question. Is it OK to slander someone at a funeral?

Suppose a well-known and respected black civil rights leader had gotten up at Coretta's funeral and said he appreciated and admired Coretta's civil rights stance, but as for her husband, he was a clown...ineffective in his non-violent tactics, and basically a tool of the white man. Would you be equally outspoken at defending his right to speak?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 08:05 pm
This whole thread is ridiculous. At any political person's funeral, politics will be in play. What's hard to accept about that?
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2006 12:52 am
Momma Angel wrote:
Isn't this really all about common decency and what is appropriate behavior at a funeral? I thought it was but I'm seeing it's becoming more than that.

Wasn't her funeral supposed to be about HER? Not about politics? Not about the war? Not about wire taps? I don't think Mrs. King's funeral was the appropriate venue for these issues.


I wonder why the King family didn't consult with you regarding the agenda at the funeral.
0 Replies
 
 

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