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Bush supporters' aftermath thread II

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2006 08:45 pm
If he's a cowboy, I'm the Queen of Sheba.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2006 08:54 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Absolutely true, i say and and post exactly what I think, in contrast with the bullshit from the right.


So Good Ole Dys, the Right on A2K post something other than what they actually think?

That's interesting.

In other words, they believe all the tripe you and your confreres lay out but petulantly choose to post something in opposition.

So America is not divided between Left and Right, but Proud Left and Bratty Left?

You know, it's not quite in keeping with the Good Ole Dys personae to lash out with some emotion fueled idiotic statement such as you just posted.

Having a bad time of late?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2006 08:54 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Absolutely true, i say and and post exactly what I think, in contrast with the bullshit from the right.


So Good Ole Dys, the Right on A2K post something other than what they actually think?

That's interesting.

In other words, they believe all the tripe you and your confreres lay out but petulantly choose to post something in opposition.

So America is not divided between Left and Right, but Proud Left and Bratty Left?

You know, it's not quite in keeping with the Good Ole Dys personae to lash out with some emotion fueled idiotic statement such as you just posted.

Having a bad time of late?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2006 09:52 pm
I've postulated he's having issues with kidney stones, but it's unconfirmed as of yet.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2006 09:58 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
I've postulated he's having issues with kidney stones, but it's unconfirmed as of yet.


Can't be. Crusty old prospecters like Dys pass "stones" the way a twelve year old cow passes a calf.

Must be that he's having trouble with his rabbit ears - can't seem to get Oprah real clear.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 07:52 am
More smoke and mirrors from the tico gang. For the record, Dys makes more sense in an uncomplete sentence than you lot make in paragraph after paragraph of your propaganda.

Remember the repuglican talking point about "undermining the CiC" and all the attacks on Democrats for their legitmate concerns on an illegal and immoral war.

A head's up. As Jon Stewart has noted about republican talking points. There's no logic in propaganda. Another posting.

Quote:


http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/08/defeatism-and-attacks-on-commander-in_14.html

Defeatism and attacks on the Commander-in-Chief during a time of war

We have a rule in our country that "attacking the Commander-in-Chief during a time of war" helps The Terrorists and emboldens our enemies.

...


In the wake of the Bush administration's engineering of the Israel-Lebanon U.N. resolution, it looks like the Commander-in-Chief has a lot of new enemies and the The Terrorists have a lot of new allies:



It seems that a whole slew of right wingers are now attacking the CiC; The National Review Editors, Dan Riehl, Michelle Malkin, Daily Pundit, ...

A few quotes.

Quote:


Bush's proud words of five years ago stand revealed as hollow and meaningless. What happened?

What happened was one of the biggest failures of leadership in Presidential history.

Bush turned out to be singularly ill-equipped for this task, both by skill and by temperament. His public relations management was curiously hesitant and badly timed, and, of course, his inabilty to speak effectively in public was a gigantic handicap. His temperament, it eventually became clear, was hesitant, overly calculating, timid, and "compassionate."

He abdicated the hard decisions in favor of political maneuvering and meaningless gestures.

The first administration of the first century of the American Third Millennium will, in my estimation, be remembered as one of the biggest failures of that century.

I'm hoping we can get through the next two years without any major disasters, ... He is a dangerous failure, and America will be well rid of him.

http://www.dailypundit.com/2006/08/george_bush_where_i_stand.php



It seems that even rabid rightwing nuts can sometimes see thru the crap. What's up with our local crew, Tico, Foxy, MM, ...?

What happened to this special Republican talking point?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 07:56 am
TDS: GOP's Ministry of Truth

Video at,

http://www.crooksandliars.com/
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 01:01 pm
Quote:
Monday, August 14, 2006
Charles Krauthammer / Syndicated columnist
Party while you can, peaceniks


WASHINGTON ?- With the defeat of Joe Lieberman in the Democratic primary in Connecticut, anti-war forces are poised for a takeover of the Democratic Party. Tuesday's exhilarating victory, and the élan and electoral legitimacy gained, may carry the newly energized Democratic left to considerable success in November.

But for the Democratic Party it will be an expensive and short-lived indulgence. The Iraq war will end, as will the Bush presidency. But the larger conflict that defines our times ?- war on Islamic radicalism, more politely known as the war on terror ?- will continue, as the just-foiled London airliner plot unmistakably reminds us. And the reflexive anti-war sentiments underlying Ned Lamont's victory in Connecticut will prove disastrous for the Democrats in the long run ?- the long run beginning as early as November '08.

Consider an analogy that the anti-war types hold dear: Iraq as Vietnam. I reject the premise, but let's assume it for the purpose of following the political consequences of anti-war movements.

The anti-Vietnam War movement had its political successes. They were, as in Connecticut last Tuesday, mostly internecine. One Democratic presidency was destroyed (Lyndon Johnson), as was the presidential candidacy of his would-be successor, Hubert Humphrey.

Like Iraq, Vietnam was but one theater in a larger global struggle ?- that struggle against the Soviet Union and its communist clients around the world ?- and by the early 1970s, the newly reshaped McGovernite party had to face the larger post-Vietnam challenges of the Cold War. The result? Political disaster.

The anti-Vietnam sentiment left a residual pacifism, an aversion to intervention and an instinct for accommodation that proved very costly to the Democrats for years. The most notorious example was the liberal flight to the "nuclear freeze" ?- the most mindless strategic idea of our lifetime ?- in opposition to Ronald Reagan facing down Soviet deployment of missiles in Eastern Europe.

Apart from the Carter success of 1976 ?- an idiosyncratic post-Watergate accident ?- the "blame America first" Democrats were not even competitive on foreign policy for the rest of the Cold War. It was not until the very disappearance of the Soviet Union that the American citizenry would once again trust a Democrat with the White House.

It took the Democrats years to dig themselves out of that hole, helped largely by such pro-defense, pro-Gulf War senators as Al Gore and Joe Lieberman. It is all now being undone by Iraq. The party's latent anti-war fervor has resurfaced with a vengeance ?- in Connecticut, quite literally so.

In the short run, as in the Vietnam days, there will be "success": a purging of hawkish Democrats like Joe Lieberman. There might even be larger victories. Enough Ned Lamonts might be elected in enough states to give one or both houses to the Democrats. But even that short-term gain is uncertain. Lamont might not even win his own state. He narrowly beat Lieberman in a voter universe confined to Democrats. In November, independents and Republicans will join the selection process.

But even assuming some short-term victories, where will the Democrats be when the war is over and Bush is gone?

Lamont said in his victory speech that the time had come to "fix George Bush's failed foreign policy." Yet, as Martin Peretz pointed out in The Wall Street Journal, on Iran, the looming long-term Islamist threat, Lamont's views are risible. Lamont's alternative to the Bush Iran policy is to "bring in allies" and "use carrots as well as sticks."

Where has this man been? Negotiators with Iran have had carrots coming out of their ears in three years of fruitless negotiations. Allies? We let the British, French and Germans negotiate with Iran for those three years, only to have Iran brazenly begin accelerated uranium enrichment that continues to this day.

Lamont seems to think that we should just sit down with the Iranians and show them why going nuclear is not a good idea. This recalls Sen. William Borah's immortal reaction in September 1939 upon hearing that Hitler had invaded Poland to start World War II: "Lord, if only I could have talked with Hitler, all this might have been avoided."

This naïveté in the service of endless accommodationism recalls also the flaccid foreign policy of the post-Vietnam Democratic left. It lost the day ?- it lost the country ?- to Ronald Reagan and a muscular foreign policy that in the end won the Cold War.

Vietnam cost the Democrats 40 years in the foreign-policy wilderness. Anti-Iraq sentiment gave the anti-war Democrats a good night on Tuesday, and may yet give them a good year or two. But beyond that, it will be desolation.
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 06:23 pm
Here's someone who agrees with George Bush.....

Quote:
They Are Fascists

Monday 14 August 2006

Many of us are only concerned with reputation and image, our image in the media, and the reputation of the Muslims in the world, but they do not care about reforming the original source, their children.
When US President George W. Bush described those who plotted to kill thousands of passengers in ten airliners as Muslim fascists, protests from a number of Islamic societies in the west and the east were voiced against this description.

What is wrong with using a bad adjective to describe a terrorist as long as he is willing to personally call himself an Islamist; declares his stance, schemes, and aims; while his supporters publicly call for killing of those whom they consider infidels, or disagree with them religiously or politically.

The strange thing is that the protesting groups, which held a press conference, would better have held it to denounce the deeds of those affiliated to Islam, who harmed all Muslims and Islam.

Bush did not say that the Muslims were fascists; he said that the Muslim fascists were the problem, i.e. he distinguished between an extremist group and the general innocent peaceful Muslims. Yes, fascism is a word that has bad connotations, and is used here to approximate the meaning to the listeners. The westerners know that fascism is an extremist nationalist movement, which emerged from the European society, and was responsible for destructive wars caused by its premises, which are based on discrimination, racism and hatred. This approximation is correct when you apply it to the literature of the Islamic extremists. The same as the Europeans fought fascism and the fascists by word and by gunpowder, the world will fight the extremist Islamists. This is what the good Muslims, who are at the forefront of those hunting down Al-Qaeda, do; the same as the Muslim who exposed the latest conspiracy to hijack the airliners, when he hastened to inform the security authorities when he suspected what was happening in the neighborhood.

This is why I do not understand what those people - who want to protect reputation and image from the westerners - want to call the Muslim extremists who resort to violence? Do they want to call them Khawarij (The earliest Islamic sect, which traces its beginning to a religious-political controversy over the Caliphate)? The problem is that no one (in the west) understands its historical meaning. Do they call them by their names only, such as Osama, Ayman, Muhammad, and Zamani? Do they call them according to the sarcastic Egyptian way: "people who should remain nameless?"

Describing them as fascists in the west is better than all the bad adjectives that rightly or wrongly have been attributed to them. This is because as far as the westerners are concerned, fascism means a specifically defined group that still lives within their societies, is from their ethnic groups and religion, and hence distinguishes between them and the others.

What is more important than preoccupation with preserving the image is to rectify the situation, and to confront the extremists among us. The majority of the westerners did not know anything about Islam and Muslims until Bin Laden, Al-Zawahiri, Muhammad Ata, and the culprits of the London explosions called themselves Islamists, and started to use the Koran and the Islamic historical nomenclatures. You cannot call the Red Brigades Movement anything g other than what they call themselves, and there is no escape from calling them Italian communists; the same applies to the National Front in Britain, which is described as a Nazi and fascist movement.

At the end, describing rotten apples as rotten does not make the people hate eating good apples. The same applies to the Muslims; there are one billion Muslims in the world, and the world has no option other than dealing with them, and hunting down the evil minority among them. We have wasted a long time since the seventies in being preoccupied with protesting against nomenclatures and images. This is despite the fact that these people hijack civilian airliners, kill people in restaurants, and justify their actions by using pan-Arab or Islamic descriptions. To describe a Muslim as terrorist is natural if he is a terrorist, the same as you do with a Colombian drug smuggler, an Italian Mafioso, a Russian butcher, a British Nazi, or a US right-wing extremist.

http://www.asharqalawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=5994
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 07:28 pm
Intrepid wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
BernardR wrote:
Advocate says that Bush is getting "revenge" for 9/11

Was that akin to Roosevelt saying that Pearl Harbor was a day of infamy and then loosing America's military power against Japan?

Well the thing is Possum FDR did not attack Nova Scotia because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor


Your right,he didnt.
Instead,he declared war on Germany.


You are wrong MM. Even this Canadian knows that Hitler declared war on the U.S. on December 11, 1941. FDR declared war on Japan on December 8, 1941. Three days later, Germany declared war on the U.S.


You are 100% correct.
Now,why did we go to war against Germany?
They were no threat to us,they had nothing to do with the attack on Pearl Harbor,they could not hurt us economically or militarily,so what was the reason?

Because they declared war on us?

That sounds like a "mouse that roared"scenario,doesnt it.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 10:01 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
BernardR wrote:
Advocate says that Bush is getting "revenge" for 9/11

Was that akin to Roosevelt saying that Pearl Harbor was a day of infamy and then loosing America's military power against Japan?

Well the thing is Possum FDR did not attack Nova Scotia because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor


Your right,he didnt.
Instead,he declared war on Germany.


You are wrong MM. Even this Canadian knows that Hitler declared war on the U.S. on December 11, 1941. FDR declared war on Japan on December 8, 1941. Three days later, Germany declared war on the U.S.


You are 100% correct.
Now,why did we go to war against Germany?
They were no threat to us,they had nothing to do with the attack on Pearl Harbor,they could not hurt us economically or militarily,so what was the reason?

Because they declared war on us?

That sounds like a "mouse that roared"scenario,doesnt it.



You are 100% correct.
Now, why did we go to war against Iraq?
They were no threat to us, they had no WMD's, they had nothing to do with the attack on Sept. 11, they could not hurt us economically or militarily, so what was the reason?

Oil? Revenge? To bring democracy? The US could not stay in Saudi Arabia any longer because the Saudis wanted the US out of the HolyLand, which included bin Laden (who is a Saudi). The US needed a new strategic location: enter - Iraq.

Neither Iraq nor the US declared war on one another BTW
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 10:14 pm
Giant U.S. embassy rising in Baghdad

Posted 4/19/2006 12:51 AM

Enlarge AP photo

Construction cranes are seen above the site of the new United States embassy being built in Baghdad.

THE SITE HAS 21 STRUCTURES

U.S. diplomatic employees in Iraq are to move next year to a multimillion-dollar complex that will be among the largest U.S. embassies. The facility is slated for completion June 2007.

New office building: Includes classified activities
New office annex: For public diplomacy staff, consular affairs and the U.S. Agency for International Development
Interim office building: Designed for future use as a school
General services annex: Facilities management, break areas, staff locker rooms
Recreation building: Gym, exercise room, swimming pool, locker rooms, the American Club, commissary, food court, barber and beauty shop
Six staff apartment buildings: Each has one bedroom apartments
Residences for the chief and deputy chief of mission
Marine security guard quarters
Remaining buildings are dedicated to security, vehicle maintenance and facilities management, storage, utilities, and water and wastewater treatment

Sources: State Department, Mall of America, Disneyland, Architect of the Capitol, wire reports and Senate Foreign Relations Committee

By Barbara Slavin, USA TODAY
Three years after a U.S.-led invasion toppled Saddam Hussein, only one major U.S. building project in Iraq is on schedule and within budget: the massive new American embassy compound.
The $592 million facility is being built inside the heavily fortified Green Zone by 900 non-Iraqi foreign workers who are housed nearby and under the supervision of a Kuwaiti contractor, according to a Senate Foreign Relations Committee report. Construction materials have been stockpiled to avoid the dangers and delays on Iraq's roads.

"We are confident the embassy will be completed according to schedule (by June 2007) and on budget," said Justin Higgins, a State Department spokesman.

The same cannot be said for major projects serving Iraqis outside the Green Zone, the Senate report said. Many ?- including health clinics, water-treatment facilities and electrical plants ?- have had to be scaled back or in some cases eliminated because of the rising costs of securing worksites and workers.

"No large-scale, U.S.-funded construction program in Iraq has yet met its schedule or budget," the committee report said.

Security is the "No. 1 factor that impedes progress," said Stuart Bowen, the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction.

Contractors and Army Corps of Engineers officials "are being shot at or threatened every day," he said. At least 467 contractors in Iraq have been killed, said Christine Belisle, a spokeswoman for the special inspector general.

According to the special inspector general's office, which Congress created to oversee U.S. projects in Iraq, 25% of nearly $21 billion for Iraq reconstruction has been diverted to pay for security.

The massive new embassy, being built on the banks of the Tigris River, is designed to be entirely self-sufficient and won't be dependent on Iraq's unreliable public utilities.

The 104-acre complex ?- the size of about 80 football fields ?- will include two office buildings, one of them designed for future use as a school, six apartment buildings, a gym, a pool, a food court and its own power generation and water-treatment plants. The average Baghdad home has electricity only four hours a day, according to Bowen's office.

The current U.S. Embassy in Iraq has nearly 1,000 Americans working there, more than at any other U.S. embassy.

Most embassy functions are now housed in Saddam Hussein's former Republican Palace, also within the Green Zone. The U.S. government and military, which occupied many of Saddam's palaces after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion, are turning the facilities back to the Iraqi government.

The lead contractor on the embassy project is a Kuwaiti firm, First Kuwaiti Trading & Contracting, Higgins said. There are also five U.S. subcontractors, but he would not name them for security reasons.

The Senate report recommended that First Kuwaiti consider hiring more Iraqis, if they can be properly screened.

Rolling Eyes Your tax dollars hard at work, I see.

Question: if democracy in Iraq is working so well, why does the US need this facility? Like I said in the post above, America wants a strategic location in the Mid East. Too bad it's taking 21 BILLION just for security. Those Iraqis really like you Yanks, eh?
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 10:20 pm
Since Pachelbel has shown that he is incredibly ignorant about the facts on Iraq; since he has shown that he does not know that the leading Democrats, almost to a man, declared Iraq a danger because they had WMD's and because Pachelbel has demonstrated that he is ignorant of almost every political event in the US( He is from Canada) I present him with some evidence.

I am not certain that he will be able to understand this article. I know he will not be able to rebut its main points. I am positive he does not know that the quotes in the article show that the Democrats were concerned about Iraq's WMD's.




COMMENTARY

December 2005

Who Is Lying About Iraq?

Norman Podhoretz

Among the many distortions, misrepresentations, and outright falsifications that have emerged from the debate over Iraq, one in particular stands out above all others. This is the charge that George W. Bush misled us into an immoral and/or unnecessary war in Iraq by telling a series of lies that have now been definitively exposed.

What makes this charge so special is the amazing success it has enjoyed in getting itself established as a self-evident truth even though it has been refuted and discredited over and over again by evidence and argument alike. In this it resembles nothing so much as those animated cartoon characters who, after being flattened, blown up, or pushed over a cliff, always spring back to life with their bodies perfectly intact. Perhaps, like those cartoon characters, this allegation simply cannot be killed off, no matter what.

Nevertheless, I want to take one more shot at exposing it for the lie that it itself really is. Although doing so will require going over ground that I and many others have covered before, I hope that revisiting this well-trodden terrain may also serve to refresh memories that have grown dim, to clarify thoughts that have grown confused, and to revive outrage that has grown commensurately dulled.




The main "lie" that George W. Bush is accused of telling us is that Saddam Hussein possessed an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction, or WMD as they have invariably come to be called. From this followed the subsidiary "lie" that Iraq under Saddam's regime posed a two-edged mortal threat. On the one hand, we were informed, there was a distinct (or even "imminent") possibility that Saddam himself would use these weapons against us and/or our allies; and on the other hand, there was the still more dangerous possibility that he would supply them to terrorists like those who had already attacked us on 9/11 and to whom he was linked.

This entire scenario of purported deceit has been given a new lease on life by the indictment in late October of I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, then chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. Libby stands accused of making false statements to the FBI and of committing perjury in testifying before a grand jury that had been convened to find out who in the Bush administration had "outed" Valerie Plame, a CIA agent married to the retired ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, IV. The supposed purpose of leaking this classified information to the press was to retaliate against Wilson for having "debunked" (in his words) "the lies that led to war."

Now, as it happens, Libby was not charged with having outed Plame but only with having lied about when and from whom he first learned that she worked for the CIA. Moreover, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor who brought the indictment against him, made a point of emphasizing that

[t]his indictment is not about the war. This indictment is not about the propriety of the war. And people who believe fervently in the war effort, people who oppose it, people who have mixed feelings about it should not look to this indictment for any resolution of how they feel or any vindication of how they feel.

This is simply an indictment that says, in a national-security investigation about the compromise of a CIA officer's identity that may have taken place in the context of a very heated debate over the war, whether some person?-a person, Mr. Libby?-lied or not.

No matter. Harry Reid, the Democratic leader in the Senate, spoke for a host of other opponents of the war in insisting that

[t]his case is bigger than the leak of classified information. It is about how the Bush White House manufactured and manipulated intelligence in order to bolster its case for the war in Iraq and to discredit anyone who dared to challenge the President.

Yet even stipulating?-which I do only for the sake of argument?-that no weapons of mass destruction existed in Iraq in the period leading up to the invasion, it defies all reason to think that Bush was lying when he asserted that they did. To lie means to say something one knows to be false. But it is as close to certainty as we can get that Bush believed in the truth of what he was saying about WMD in Iraq.

How indeed could it have been otherwise? George Tenet, his own CIA director, assured him that the case was "a slam dunk." This phrase would later become notorious, but in using it, Tenet had the backing of all fifteen agencies involved in gathering intelligence for the United States. In the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) of 2002, where their collective views were summarized, one of the conclusions offered with "high confidence" was that

Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding its chemical, biological, nuclear, and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions.

The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and?-yes?-France all agreed with this judgment. And even Hans Blix?-who headed the UN team of inspectors trying to determine whether Saddam had complied with the demands of the Security Council that he get rid of the weapons of mass destruction he was known to have had in the past?-lent further credibility to the case in a report he issued only a few months before the invasion:

The discovery of a number of 122-mm chemical rocket warheads in a bunker at a storage depot 170 km southwest of Baghdad was much publicized. This was a relatively new bunker, and therefore the rockets must have been moved there in the past few years, at a time when Iraq should not have had such munitions. . . . They could also be the tip of a submerged iceberg. The discovery of a few rockets does not resolve but rather points to the issue of several thousands of chemical rockets that are unaccounted for.

Blix now claims that he was only being "cautious" here, but if, as he now also adds, the Bush administration "misled itself" in interpreting the evidence before it, he at the very least lent it a helping hand.




So, once again, did the British, the French, and the Germans, all of whom signed on in advance to Secretary of State Colin Powell's reading of the satellite photos he presented to the UN in the period leading up to the invasion. Powell himself and his chief of staff, Lawrence Wilkerson, now feel that this speech was the low point of his tenure as Secretary of State. But Wilkerson (in the process of a vicious attack on the President, the Vice President, and the Secretary of Defense for getting us into Iraq) is forced to acknowledge that the Bush administration did not lack for company in interpreting the available evidence as it did:

I can't tell you why the French, the Germans, the Brits, and us thought that most of the material, if not all of it, that we presented at the UN on 5 February 2003 was the truth. I can't. I've wrestled with it. [But] when you see a satellite photograph of all the signs of the chemical-weapons ASP?-Ammunition Supply Point?-with chemical weapons, and you match all those signs with your matrix on what should show a chemical ASP, and they're there, you have to conclude that it's a chemical ASP, especially when you see the next satellite photograph which shows the UN inspectors wheeling in their white vehicles with black markings on them to that same ASP, and everything is changed, everything is clean. . . . But George [Tenet] was convinced, John McLaughlin [Tenet's deputy] was convinced, that what we were presented [for Powell's UN speech] was accurate.

Going on to shoot down a widespread impression, Wilkerson informs us that even the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) was convinced:

People say, well, INR dissented. That's a bunch of bull. INR dissented that the nuclear program was up and running. That's all INR dissented on. They were right there with the chems and the bios.

In explaining its dissent on Iraq's nuclear program, the INR had, as stated in the NIE of 2002, expressed doubt about

Iraq's efforts to acquire aluminum tubes [which are] central to the argument that Baghdad is reconstituting its nuclear-weapons program. . . . INR is not persuaded that the tubes in question are intended for use as centrifuge rotors . . . in Iraq's nuclear-weapons program.

But, according to Wilkerson,

The French came in in the middle of my deliberations at the CIA and said, we have just spun aluminum tubes, and by God, we did it to this RPM, et cetera, et cetera, and it was all, you know, proof positive that the aluminum tubes were not for mortar casings or artillery casings, they were for centrifuges. Otherwise, why would you have such exquisite instruments?

In short, and whether or not it included the secret heart of Hans Blix, "the consensus of the intelligence community," as Wilkerson puts it, "was overwhelming" in the period leading up to the invasion of Iraq that Saddam definitely had an arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, and that he was also in all probability well on the way to rebuilding the nuclear capability that the Israelis had damaged by bombing the Osirak reactor in 1981.

Additional confirmation of this latter point comes from Kenneth Pollack, who served in the National Security Council under Clinton. "In the late spring of 2002," Pollack has written,

I participated in a Washington meeting about Iraqi WMD. Those present included nearly twenty former inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), the force established in 1991 to oversee the elimination of WMD in Iraq. One of the senior people put a question to the group: did anyone in the room doubt that Iraq was currently operating a secret centrifuge plant? No one did. Three people added that they believed Iraq was also operating a secret calutron plant (a facility for separating uranium isotopes).

No wonder, then, that another conclusion the NIE of 2002 reached with "high confidence" was that

Iraq could make a nuclear weapon in months to a year once it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.1




But the consensus on which Bush relied was not born in his own administration. In fact, it was first fully formed in the Clinton administration. Here is Clinton himself, speaking in 1998:

If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons-of-mass-destruction program.

Here is his Secretary of State Madeline Albright, also speaking in 1998:

Iraq is a long way from [the USA], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risk that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.

Here is Sandy Berger, Clinton's National Security Adviser, who chimed in at the same time with this flat-out assertion about Saddam:

He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.

Finally, Clinton's Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, was so sure Saddam had stockpiles of WMD that he remained "absolutely convinced" of it even after our failure to find them in the wake of the invasion in March 2003.

Nor did leading Democrats in Congress entertain any doubts on this score. A few months after Clinton and his people made the statements I have just quoted, a group of Democratic Senators, including such liberals as Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, and John Kerry, urged the President

to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons-of-mass-destruction programs.

Nancy Pelosi, the future leader of the Democrats in the House, and then a member of the House Intelligence Committee, added her voice to the chorus:

Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons-of-mass-destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.

This Democratic drumbeat continued and even intensified when Bush succeeded Clinton in 2001, and it featured many who would later pretend to have been deceived by the Bush White House. In a letter to the new President, a number of Senators led by Bob Graham declared:

There is no doubt that . . . Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical, and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf war status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.

Senator Carl Levin also reaffirmed for Bush's benefit what he had told Clinton some years earlier:

Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations, and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton agreed, speaking in October 2002:

In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical- and biological-weapons stock, his missile-delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members.

Senator Jay Rockefeller, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, agreed as well:

There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. . . . We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.

Even more striking were the sentiments of Bush's opponents in his two campaigns for the presidency. Thus Al Gore in September 2002:

We know that [Saddam] has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.

And here is Gore again, in that same year:

Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.

Now to John Kerry, also speaking in 2002:

I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force?-if necessary?-to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.




Perhaps most startling of all, given the rhetoric that they would later employ against Bush after the invasion of Iraq, are statements made by Senators Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd, also in 2002:

Kennedy: We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.

Byrd: The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical- and biological-warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons.2

Liberal politicians like these were seconded by the mainstream media, in whose columns a very different tune would later be sung. For example, throughout the last two years of the Clinton administration, editorials in the New York Times repeatedly insisted that

without further outside intervention, Iraq should be able to rebuild weapons and missile plants within a year [and] future military attacks may be required to diminish the arsenal again.

The Times was also skeptical of negotiations, pointing out that it was

hard to negotiate with a tyrant who has no intention of honoring his commitments and who sees nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons as his country's salvation.

So, too, the Washington Post, which greeted the inauguration of George W. Bush in January 2001 with the admonition that

[o]f all the booby traps left behind by the Clinton administration, none is more dangerous?-or more urgent?-than the situation in Iraq. Over the last year, Mr. Clinton and his team quietly avoided dealing with, or calling attention to, the almost complete unraveling of a decade's efforts to isolate the regime of Saddam Hussein and prevent it from rebuilding its weapons of mass destruction. That leaves President Bush to confront a dismaying panorama in the Persian Gulf [where] intelligence photos . . . show the reconstruction of factories long suspected of producing chemical and biological weapons.3




All this should surely suffice to prove far beyond any even unreasonable doubt that Bush was telling what he believed to be the truth about Saddam's stockpile of WMD. It also disposes of the fallback charge that Bush lied by exaggerating or hyping the intelligence presented to him. Why on earth would he have done so when the intelligence itself was so compelling that it convinced everyone who had direct access to it, and when hardly anyone in the world believed that Saddam had, as he claimed, complied with the sixteen resolutions of the Security Council demanding that he get rid of his weapons of mass destruction?

Another fallback charge is that Bush, operating mainly through Cheney, somehow forced the CIA into telling him what he wanted to hear. Yet in its report of 2004, the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee, while criticizing the CIA for relying on what in hindsight looked like weak or faulty intelligence, stated that it

did not find any evidence that administration officials attempted to coerce, influence, or pressure analysts to change their judgments related to Iraq's weapons-of-mass-destruction capabilities.

The March 2005 report of the equally bipartisan Robb-Silberman commission, which investigated intelligence failures on Iraq, reached the same conclusion, finding

no evidence of political pressure to influence the intelligence community's pre-war assessments of Iraq's weapons programs. . . . [A]nalysts universally asserted that in no instance did political pressure cause them to skew or alter any of their analytical judgments.

Still, even many who believed that Saddam did possess WMD, and was ruthless enough to use them, accused Bush of telling a different sort of lie by characterizing the risk as "imminent." But this, too, is false: Bush consistently rejected imminence as a justification for war.4 Thus, in the State of the Union address he delivered only three months after 9/11, Bush declared that he would "not wait on events while dangers gather" and that he would "not stand by, as peril draws closer and closer." Then, in a speech at West Point six months later, he reiterated the same point: "If we wait for threats to materialize, we will have waited too long." And as if that were not clear enough, he went out of his way in his State of the Union address in 2003 (that is, three months before the invasion), to bring up the word "imminent" itself precisely in order to repudiate it:

Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option.

What of the related charge that it was still another "lie" to suggest, as Bush and his people did, that a connection could be traced between Saddam Hussein and the al-Qaeda terrorists who had attacked us on 9/11? This charge was also rejected by the Senate Intelligence Committee. Contrary to how its findings were summarized in the mainstream media, the committee's report explicitly concluded that al Qaeda did in fact have a cooperative, if informal, relationship with Iraqi agents working under Saddam. The report of the bipartisan 9/11 commission came to the same conclusion, as did a comparably independent British investigation conducted by Lord Butler, which pointed to "meetings . . . between senior Iraqi representatives and senior al-Qaeda operatives."5




Which brings us to Joseph C. Wilson, IV and what to my mind wins the palm for the most disgraceful instance of all.

The story begins with the notorious sixteen words inserted?-after, be it noted, much vetting by the CIA and the State Department?-into Bush's 2003 State of the Union address:

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.

This is the "lie" Wilson bragged of having "debunked" after being sent by the CIA to Niger in 2002 to check out the intelligence it had received to that effect. Wilson would later angrily deny that his wife had recommended him for this mission, and would do his best to spread the impression that choosing him had been the Vice President's idea. But Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times, through whom Wilson first planted this impression, was eventually forced to admit that "Cheney apparently didn't know that Wilson had been dispatched." (By the time Kristof grudgingly issued this retraction, Wilson himself, in characteristically shameless fashion, was denying that he had ever "said the Vice President sent me or ordered me sent.") And as for his wife's supposed non-role in his mission, here is what Valerie Plame Wilson wrote in a memo to her boss at the CIA:

My husband has good relations with the PM [the prime minister of Niger] and the former minister of mines . . . , both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.

More than a year after his return, with the help of Kristof, and also Walter Pincus of the Washington Post, and then through an op-ed piece in the Times under his own name, Wilson succeeded, probably beyond his wildest dreams, in setting off a political firestorm.

In response, the White House, no doubt hoping to prevent his allegation about the sixteen words from becoming a proxy for the charge that (in Wilson's latest iteration of it) "lies and disinformation [were] used to justify the invasion of Iraq," eventually acknowledged that the President's statement "did not rise to the level of inclusion in the State of the Union address." As might have been expected, however, this panicky response served to make things worse rather than better. And yet it was totally unnecessary?-for the maddeningly simple reason that every single one of the sixteen words at issue was true.

That is, British intelligence had assured the CIA that Saddam Hussein had tried to buy enriched uranium from the African country of Niger. Furthermore?-and notwithstanding the endlessly repeated assertion that this assurance has now been discredited?-Britain's independent Butler commission concluded that it was "well-founded." The relevant passage is worth quoting at length:

a. It is accepted by all parties that Iraqi officials visited Niger in 1999.

b. The British government had intelligence from several different sources indicating that this visit was for the purpose of acquiring uranium. Since uranium constitutes almost three-quarters of Niger's exports, the intelligence was credible.

c. The evidence was not conclusive that Iraq actually purchased, as opposed to having sought, uranium, and the British government did not claim this.




As if that were not enough to settle the matter, Wilson himself, far from challenging the British report when he was "debriefed" on his return from Niger (although challenging it is what he now never stops doing6), actually strengthened the CIA's belief in its accuracy. From the Senate Intelligence Committee report:

He [the CIA reports officer] said he judged that the most important fact in the report [by Wilson] was that Niger officials admitted that the Iraqi delegation had traveled there in 1999, and that the Niger prime minister believed the Iraqis were interested in purchasing uranium.

And again:

The report on [Wilson's] trip to Niger . . . did not change any analysts' assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original CIA reports on the uranium deal.

This passage goes on to note that the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research?-which (as we have already seen) did not believe that Saddam Hussein was trying to develop nuclear weapons?-found support in Wilson's report for its "assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq." But if so, this, as the Butler report quoted above points out, would not mean that Iraq had not tried to buy it?-which was the only claim made by British intelligence and then by Bush in the famous sixteen words.

The liar here, then, was not Bush but Wilson. And Wilson also lied when he told the Washington Post that he had unmasked as forgeries certain documents given to American intelligence (by whom it is not yet clear) that supposedly contained additional evidence of Saddam's efforts to buy uranium from Niger. The documents did indeed turn out to be forgeries; but, according to the Butler report,

[t]he forged documents were not available to the British government at the time its assessment was made, and so the fact of the forgery does not undermine [that assessment].7

More damning yet to Wilson, the Senate Intelligence Committee discovered that he had never laid eyes on the documents in question:

[Wilson] also told committee staff that he was the source of a Washington Post article . . . which said, "among the envoy's conclusions was that the documents may have been forged because ?'the dates were wrong and the names were wrong.'" Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the "dates were wrong and the names were wrong" when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports.

To top all this off, just as Cheney had nothing to do with the choice of Wilson for the mission to Niger, neither was it true that, as Wilson "confirmed" for a credulous New Republic reporter, "the CIA circulated [his] report to the Vice President's office," thereby supposedly proving that Cheney and his staff "knew the Niger story was a flatout lie." Yet?-the mind reels?-if Cheney had actually been briefed on Wilson's oral report to the CIA (which he was not), he would, like the CIA itself, have been more inclined to believe that Saddam had tried to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger.

So much for the author of the best-selling and much acclaimed book whose title alone?-The Politics of Truth: Inside the Lies that Led to War and Betrayed My Wife's CIA Identity?-has set a new record for chutzpah.




But there is worse. In his press conference on the indictment against Libby, Patrick Fitzgerald insisted that lying to federal investigators is a serious crime both because it is itself against the law and because, by sending them on endless wild-goose chases, it constitutes the even more serious crime of obstruction of justice. By those standards, Wilson?-who has repeatedly made false statements about every aspect of his mission to Niger, including whose idea it was to send him and what he told the CIA upon his return; who was then shown up by the Senate Intelligence Committee as having lied about the forged documents; and whose mendacity has sent the whole country into a wild-goose chase after allegations that, the more they are refuted, the more they keep being repeated?-is himself an excellent candidate for criminal prosecution.

And so long as we are hunting for liars in this area, let me suggest that we begin with the Democrats now proclaiming that they were duped, and that we then broaden out to all those who in their desperation to delegitimize the larger policy being tested in Iraq?-the policy of making the Middle East safe for America by making it safe for democracy?-have consistently used distortion, misrepresentation, and selective perception to vilify as immoral a bold and noble enterprise and to brand as an ignominious defeat what is proving itself more and more every day to be a victory of American arms and a vindication of American ideals.

?-November 7, 2005


NORMAN PODHORETZ is the editor-at-large of COMMENTARY and the author of ten books. The most recent, The Norman Podhoretz Reader, edited by Thomas L. Jeffers, appeared in 2004. His essays on the Bush Doctrine and Iraq, including "World War IV: How It Started, What It Means, and Why We Have to Win" (September 2004) and "The War Against World War IV" (February 2005), can be found by clicking here.

1 Hard as it is to believe, let alone to reconcile with his general position, Joseph C. Wilson, IV, in a speech he delivered three months after the invasion at the Education for Peace in Iraq Center, offhandedly made the following remark: "I remain of the view that we will find biological and chemical weapons and we may well find something that indicates that Saddam's regime maintained an interest in nuclear weapons."

2 Fuller versions of these and similar statements can be found at http://www.theconversationcafe.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3134.htmland. Another source is http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php.

3 These and numerous other such quotations were assembled by Robert Kagan in a piece published in the Washington Post on October 25, 2005.

4 Whereas both John Edwards, later to become John Kerry's running mate in 2004, and Jay Rockefeller, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, actually did use the word in describing the threat posed by Saddam.

5 In early November, the Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee, who last year gave their unanimous assent to its report, were suddenly mounting a last-ditch effort to take it back on this issue (and others). But to judge from the material they had already begun leaking by November 7, when this article was going to press, the newest "Bush lied" case is as empty and dishonest as the one they themselves previously rejected.

6 Here is how he put it in a piece in the Los Angeles Times written in late October of this year to celebrate the indictment of Libby: "I knew that the statement in Bush's speech . . . was not true. I knew it was false from my own investigative trip to Africa. . . . And I knew that the White House knew it."

7 More extensive citations of the relevant passages from the Butler report can be found in postings by Daniel McKivergan at www.worldwidestandard.com. I have also drawn throughout on materials cited by the invaluable Stephen F. Hayes in the Weekly Standard.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 10:35 pm
chew on this one
War, Lies and WMDs
by Richard Cummings


Is there an ethical distinction between lying to get your country out of a war and lying to get your country into one? DeGaulle did the former when, in a room filled with French officers, he proclaimed "Algerie Francaise!" only to win power and pull out of a long, drawn out colonial war that had left hundreds of thousands dead and which had left France drained. The preponderance of the evidence strongly suggests that Bush did the latter when he said the existence of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction was sufficient reason to go to war with Iraq.

Saddam Hussein was under an obligation to destroy his WMDs under the terms that ended the first Iraq war. To justify a second Iraq war to implement a regime change, Bush needed to show that Saddam Hussein was in violation of those terms. His basic instrument was United Nations Resolution 1441. In order to get a second resolution to satisfy his only real ally, Britain, he needed evidence that the U.N. inspectors were failing and that WMDs did, indeed, exist.

To this end, Colin Powell trotted out photos of vehicles that may or may not have been mobile weapons labs and produced statements by defectors that the WMDs did exist. To this spectacle, America and Britain added an obsolete dissertation by a graduate student published in an Israeli journal from an institution for research in international affairs funded by Ronald Lauder, and forged documents from Niger about Saddam's attempts to purchase uranium for making nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, Bush and his minions, including Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleeza Rice kept repeating that the WMDs were there, and that there were proven Iraqi ties to Al Queda, the other justification for the war being that it was somehow related to the war on terrorism. There is still no concrete proof of any Iraq-Al Queda connection.

An army officer, a key source in Kirkuk, reports that not only is the MEK (Mujahaiden Badr Corps) not a pro-Al Queda operation with ties to Iran, as the Bush administration asserted, it is opposed to the regime in Iran and has been fighting Iranian para-military units in Northern Iraq. Well equipped and superbly trained, the MEK did fight with Saddam Hussein against Iran, but only for the purpose of toppling the Mullahs. Most of the upper level MEK commanders and a very significant minority of their troops are women, so they hardly qualify as Fundamentalist terrorists. When Condoleeza Rice said their base in Northern Iraq where they trained was tied to Al Queda, she was lying through her teeth. She knew exactly who and what they were. The Army source in Kirkuk reports that Rumsfeld is considering using them in an invasion of Iran, the way he used the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. The only difference is that the MEK is a far superior fighting force. It is currently under U.S. Army protection against the Iranian para-military units.

Moreover, David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security and a former U.N. nuclear weapons inspector in Iraq, has said, "We conclude that the large number of deployed weapons the administration said that Iraq had was not nearly as sophisticated as the administration claimed." And the discovery of two possible mobile biological weapons labs falls far short of the claims that Bush and members of his administration made before the war.

It was Bush, himself, who said in an October 2002 speech, "We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas. And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons?"

The Bush administration also accused France and Germany with providing Iraq with technology in the form of precision switches that could be used to detonate nuclear bombs. In actuality, as The New York Times reported, the switches were presented as spare parts for medical equipment and French authorities had immediately barred the sale.

Was this a Hitlerian use of the "big lie" technique ("Repeat a lie often enough and the people will believe it. The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed.") or did the Bush administration actually believe that these things existed? And if it were a matter of lying, is lying about war any better or worse than lying about sex? When Clinton denied that he had a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinski, his position was that there had been no penetration. Of course, he lied under oath, which is not the same thing as lying in a speech or a press conference. But if the lies add up to what can be called an "abuse of power," it starts to become something much more troubling than the inability to acknowledge that fellatio is indeed sexual, the major difference being that in the case of abuse of power, it is the country and its people who are violated. And abuse of power is abuse of power, whatever the nutty professor, Leo Strauss, might have said.

But before one can answer any of these questions, one must first understand that in Washington, knowledge is power. And since the basic game in Washington is getting power, it follows that having exclusive access to knowledge is the essential ingredient for the accumulation of power. Which is why the director of the CIA is always one of the most powerful figures in Washington. As head of the CIA, he is also the DCI, the Director of Central Intelligence, meaning that all intelligence flows through him. Such agencies as the NSA, the DIA, Army Intelligence, Navy Intelligence, and any other agency involved in intelligence, report to the DCI. As since it is the head of the CIA who briefs the president every morning on matters of intelligence, it is he who defines the arcane realm of intelligence and its consequences to the chief executive, who is also commander in chief of the armed forces.

This is not a situation that sits well with Donald Rumsfeld, the SECDEF, as he is known in the corridors of power. Rumsfeld sees himself more as the Secretary of War (as that cabinet position was once known) than as the Secretary of Defense. He is not into defending. He is into attacking. He sees his task as defining who the enemy is and then obliterating him. It is inconceivable to him that he must wait for the intelligence gathered by his own military intelligence agencies to flow through George Tenet, who then interprets it to the President, before he can act on it. It quickly became obvious to him that he needed to bypass this bureaucratic hierarchy.

To this end, he allowed Paul Wolfowitz, his Deputy Secretary, to create the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans, the "Cabal," as Seymour Hersh, writing in The New Yorker, has said they call themselves. Its director is Abram Shulsky, a disciple of Leo Strauss (who said lying by the leader was OK), who reports to Under-Secretary of Defense, William Luti, a retired Navy captain who was a strong supporter of war with Iraq. But with a small staff and limited resources, it was not likely that this office could, by itself, effectively find the WMDs. And while it did work to secure the cooperation of the leaders of the Iraqi National Congress, including its leader, Ahmed Chalabi, who had secured secret CIA funding, it was not so much a collector of intelligence as a receiver of it. The beauty of the Office of Special Plans, is that it does not fit into the hierarchy that must report to the DCI. It reports directly to Rumsfeld, himself. Rumsfeld needed a way to get intelligence in such manner as to circumvent the DCI, so he, with his own direct access to the President, could contradict what George Tenet was telling him.

Enter Science Application International Corporation (SAIC), the world's largest private "Information-Technology" ("I-T") company, which, since January 23, 2003, is a major Department of Defense contractor. A Fortune 500 company with annual revenue of $5.9 billion, it is the world's largest consulting firm and one of the top 100 defense contractors. Its Board of Directors includes Bobby Inman, Admiral USN, (Ret.), once regarded as anti-Israel and forced to withdraw as a candidate to head the CIA, but now, more than willing to make amends for the right price. SAIC is a leader in biomedical research and has provided biomedical information to the Federal government. It is involved in nuclear energy and in chemical research, providing "terrorism response training" and "inspection technology" for the defense industry. It currently aids the United States Government in establishing "a formidable presence to arrest or even prevent Global terrorist activities." It boasts: "SAIC's national security efforts reach across all branches of the military and support the full spectrum of military operations - from peace keeping and humanitarian missions to major conflicts. SAIC also helps the Department of Defense, the FBI and other agencies combat terrorism, cybercrime and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction."

In actuality, as sources in the Pentagon report, SAIC is the vehicle for the information Special Plans has been receiving. And it, in turn, according to sources in Jerusalem, has been receiving information from Israeli sources involved in chemical and biological warfare and from the Mossad, which, increasingly, has grown so suspicious of the CIA, it has become sufficiently alienated from it to prefer to cooperate with Rumsfeld rather than with Tenet. Israel rejected the Tenet plan and resents the fact that the CIA has been put in charge of overseeing the implementation of the Road Map. According to inside sources in Tel Aviv, Sharon suspects Tenet of being pro-Palestinian and regards giving him information as counter-productive. Which is why, as Seymour Hersch reported in The New Yorker, Tenet is getting beaten up and morale at the Agency is at an all-time low.

Meanwhile, according to the Israeli sources, the Mossad gets a considerable amount of its information from its Iraqi operatives, most of which are from the Iraqi National Congress (INC), including Ahmad Chalabi, who is a virtual Mossad operative. Mossad's objective is to make Chalabi, who is currently looked upon with suspicion by the CIA, so indispensable to the Americans, that he will end up organizing, if not heading, the eventual Iraqi government. Indeed, he is rapidly becoming L. Paul Bremmer III's pet rock. To the Israelis, he is the only alternative to an Islamic republic, something that is anathema to them and totally unacceptable because of its inevitable threat to Israeli security. And while it is true that, on the surface, the Pentagon is running Chalabi, he is ultimately a creature of Israeli intelligence, which now says, as it has been widely reported, that the WMDs it identified to Bush have been smuggled out of Iraq and are now in Syria, where Israel wants the next regime change.

There is a rationale to what the Israelis have been doing in providing their information with regards to the WMDs. Bush wanted his war because, a White House source related, Karl Rove told him that it would keeps his polls up. As long as the war against terrorism goes on forever, which the invasion of Iraq now appears to guarantee, given the suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia and Morocco, Bush won't fall victim to his father's fate, when his victory in Iraq was forgotten by the time the election came around. He wanted it also because it would rid Saudi Arabia of its only military threat, so American troops could leave the Islamic Holy Land. The Israelis wanted him to buy into the WMD basis for the war, so he would eventually have to turn against Syria to prove he was right. Israel has openly called for a "regime change" in Syria. With the suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia, Morocco, and again in Israel, the heat is on again. Another major terrorist attack in America and Bush will blame Syria and/or Iran. And the worse it gets, the bigger the SAIC contract will be. Does SAIC want to see Bush re-elected? Does Roger Clemens throw right-handed?

So did Bush lie? It all depends on how one defines "lie." Coriolanus "dissembled," which is defined as "to hide under a false appearance, to put on the appearance of: SIMULATE: to put on a false appearance: conceal facts, intentions, or feelings under some pretense."

Shakespeare wrote:


"What have you done? Behold! The heavens do ope,
the gods look down, and this unnatural scene
They laugh at. Oh my mother! Mother! O!
You have won a happy victory to Rome;
But for your son, believe it, O believe it,
Most dangerously you have with him prevail'd,
If not most mortal to him. But let it come."

De Gaulle won a kind of victory for France by dissembling. Because humans are misled by rhetoric, as Heidegger said, what he did was probably right, but it was the opposite of Leo Strauss' political philosophy because it was the reverse of the interventionism Strauss advocated. But maybe most Americans simply don't care about any of this and are prepared to take Bush's word for it, or simply let him get away with it, because they have no interest in politics and would like to have someone else take care of everything for them. What do they care if Leo Strauss is, in actuality, the theorist of choice of the new Military-Industrial Complex.? But as Pericles observed, "Just because you don't take an interest in politics, doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you."

May 22, 2003

Richard Cummings [send him mail] taught international law at the Haile Selassie I University and before that, was Attorney-Advisor with the Office of General Counsel of the Near East South Asia region of U.S.A.I.D, where he was responsible for the legal work pertaining to the aid program in Israel, Jordan, Pakistan and Afghanistan. He is the author of a new novel, The Immortalists, as well as The Pied Piper - Allard K. Lowenstein and the Liberal Dream, and the comedy, Soccer Moms From Hell. He holds a Ph.D. in Social and Political Sciences from Cambridge University and is a member of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers.

Copyright © 2003 LewRockwell.com

Richard Cummings Archives
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 12:34 am
Wrong_

about WMD in Iraq.

How indeed could it have been otherwise? George Tenet, his own CIA director, assured him that the case was "a slam dunk." This phrase would later become notorious, but in using it, Tenet had the backing of all fifteen agencies involved in gathering intelligence for the United States. In the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) of 2002, where their collective views were summarized, one of the conclusions offered with "high confidence" was that

Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding its chemical, biological, nuclear, and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions
The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and?-yes?-France all agreed with this judgment. And even Hans Blix?-who headed the UN team of inspectors trying to determine whether Saddam had complied with the demands of the Security Council that he get rid of the weapons of mass destruction he was known to have had in the past?-lent further credibility to the case in a report he issued only a few months before the invasion:

The discovery of a number of 122-mm chemical rocket warheads in a bunker at a storage depot 170 km southwest of Baghdad was much publicized. This was a relatively new bunker, and therefore the rockets must have been moved there in the past few years, at a time when Iraq should not have had such munitions. . . . They could also be the tip of a submerged iceberg. The discovery of a few rockets does not resolve but rather points to the issue of several thousands of chemical rockets that are unaccounted for.

Blix now claims that he was only being "cautious" here, but if, as he now also adds, the Bush administration "misled itself" in interpreting the evidence before it, he at the very least lent it a helping hand.




So, once again, did the British, the French, and the Germans, all of whom signed on in advance to Secretary of State Colin Powell's reading of the satellite photos he presented to the UN in the period leading up to the invasion. Powell himself and his chief of staff, Lawrence Wilkerson, now feel that this speech was the low point of his tenure as Secretary of State. But Wilkerson (in the process of a vicious attack on the President, the Vice President, and the Secretary of Defense for getting us into Iraq) is forced to acknowledge that the Bush administration did not lack for company in interpreting the available evidence as it did:

I can't tell you why the French, the Germans, the Brits, and us thought that most of the material, if not all of it, that we presented at the UN on 5 February 2003 was the truth. I can't. I've wrestled with it. [But] when you see a satellite photograph of all the signs of the chemical-weapons ASP?-Ammunition Supply Point?-with chemical weapons, and you match all those signs with your matrix on what should show a chemical ASP, and they're there, you have to conclude that it's a chemical ASP, especially when you see the next satellite photograph which shows the UN inspectors wheeling in their white vehicles with black markings on them to that same ASP, and everything is changed, everything is clean. . . . But George [Tenet] was convinced, John McLaughlin [Tenet's deputy] was convinced, that what we were presented [for Powell's UN speech] was accurate.

Going on to shoot down a widespread impression, Wilkerson informs us that even the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) was convinced:

People say, well, INR dissented. That's a bunch of bull. INR dissented that the nuclear program was up and running. That's all INR dissented on. They were right there with the chems and the bios.

In explaining its dissent on Iraq's nuclear program, the INR had, as stated in the NIE of 2002, expressed doubt about

Iraq's efforts to acquire aluminum tubes [which are] central to the argument that Baghdad is reconstituting its nuclear-weapons program. . . . INR is not persuaded that the tubes in question are intended for use as centrifuge rotors . . . in Iraq's nuclear-weapons program.

But, according to Wilkerson,

The French came in in the middle of my deliberations at the CIA and said, we have just spun aluminum tubes, and by God, we did it to this RPM, et cetera, et cetera, and it was all, you know, proof positive that the aluminum tubes were not for mortar casings or artillery casings, they were for centrifuges. Otherwise, why would you have such exquisite instruments?

In short, and whether or not it included the secret heart of Hans Blix, "the consensus of the intelligence community," as Wilkerson puts it, "was overwhelming" in the period leading up to the invasion of Iraq that Saddam definitely had an arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, and that he was also in all probability well on the way to rebuilding the nuclear capability that the Israelis had damaged by bombing the Osirak reactor in 1981.

Additional confirmation of this latter point comes from Kenneth Pollack, who served in the National Security Council under Clinton. "In the late spring of 2002," Pollack has written,

I participated in a Washington meeting about Iraqi WMD. Those present included nearly twenty former inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), the force established in 1991 to oversee the elimination of WMD in Iraq. One of the senior people put a question to the group: did anyone in the room doubt that Iraq was currently operating a secret centrifuge plant? No one did. Three people added that they believed Iraq was also operating a secret calutron plant (a facility for separating uranium isotopes).

No wonder, then, that another conclusion the NIE of 2002 reached with "high confidence" was that

Iraq could make a nuclear weapon in months to a year once it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.1

**********************************************************

Only someone highly ignorant of the facts would try to put the lie to the DOCUMENTED FACT THAT THE INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES OF BRITAIN, GERMANY, CHINA, RUSSIA, ISRAEL AND FRANCE REPORTED THAT IRAQ WAS CONTINUING TO EXPAND ITS WM

*********************************************************

Pacelbal's source wrote:


An army officer, a key source in Kirkuk, reports that not only is the MEK (Mujahaiden Badr Corps) not a pro-Al Queda operation with ties to Iran, as the Bush administration asserted, it is opposed to the regime in Iran and has been fighting Iranian para-military units in Northern Iraq. Well equipped and superbly trained, the MEK did fight with Saddam Hussein against Iran, but only for the purpose of toppling the Mullahs. Most of the upper level MEK commanders and a very significant minority of their troops are women, so they hardly qualify as Fundamentalist terrorists. When Condoleeza Rice said their base in Northern Iraq where they trained was tied to Al Queda, she was lying through her teeth. She knew exactly who and what they were. The Army source in Kirkuk reports that Rumsfeld is considering using them in an invasion of Iran, the way he used the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. The only difference is that the MEK is a far superior fighting force. It is currently under U.S. Army protection against the Iranian para-military units.
********************************************************

quote from above--"An Army officer, a key source in Kikurk!!!"

If one does not know that unnamed and anonymous sources are not worth a damn, one should not be posting on this venue!!*********************************************************

Pachelbil's source then wrote:


The Bush administration also accused France and Germany with providing Iraq with technology in the form of precision switches that could be used to detonate nuclear bombs. In actuality, as The New York Times reported, the switches were presented as spare parts for medical equipment and French authorities had immediately barred the sale.

Was this a Hitlerian use of the "big lie" technique ("Repeat a lie often enough and the people will believe it. The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed.") or did the Bush administration actually believe that these things existed? And if it were a matter of lying, is lying about war any better or worse than lying about sex? When Clinton denied that he had a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinski, his position was that there had been no penetration. Of course, he lied under oath, which is not the same thing as lying in a speech or a press conference. But if the lies add up to what can be called an "abuse of power," it starts to become something much more troubling than the inability to acknowledge that fellatio is indeed sexual, the major difference being that in the case of abuse of power, it is the country and its people who are violated. And abuse of power is abuse of power, whatever the nutty professor, Leo Strauss, might have said.
***********************************************************

Pacelebel'a source obviously knows NOTHING about the legal definition of a lie.

Black's law Dictionary--A falsehood uttered for the purpose of deception--An INTENTIONAL statement of an untruth.

No one has ever proven in court beyond the shadow of a doubt that President Bush lied, in fact the essay by Podhoretz shows that he did not lie--CLINTON? HE ADMITTED LYING!!! Pacelebel's source is obviously in erroR

***********************************************************

Pachelbel' source wrote:

Moreover, David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security and a former U.N. nuclear weapons inspector in Iraq, has said, "We conclude that the large number of deployed weapons the administration said that Iraq had was not nearly as sophisticated as the administration claimed." And the discovery of two possible mobile biological weapons labs falls far short of the claims that Bush and members of his administration made before the war.
************************************************************

BUT IF LARGE NUMBER OF DEPLOYED WEAPONS WERE NOT NEARLY AS SOPHISTICATED AS THE ADMINISTRATION CLAIMED, THERE WERE S O M E W E A P O N S I N I R A Q.





Now, Pacelbel, I did what must be done in a debate. I took your source and rebutted a good part of it. If you are unable to do the same thing to mine, or too lazy, I understand, but then my POST STANDS UNREBUTTED.

PS Note carefully the many quotes from Democrats in my post!!!

Rebut those!!!!!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 10:02 am
Again, the hypocrisy, the doublespeak, the delusions of people who lie so readily, they can't keep their lies straight.


Quote:


George Bush is Right.......... Kind Of

I almost choked when I heard President Bush say, talking about the aborted London terror plot, "people in Washington just need to put politics aside and pull together in fighting terror."

He's right, of course.

But - it's a wonder lightning didn't strike him dead on the spot!

Does he think that we forget he and his henchmen accused Max Cleland of being cozy with Osama bin Laden?


Or that he swift-boated John Kerry as soft on terror?

Or that Republicans held their 2004 convention not far from Ground Zero and invoked September 11 twenty times in every speech?

How ?'bout Karl Rove telling Republicans to take the war on terror and beat Democrats over the head with it?

Or Dick Cheney saying that, by defeating Joe Lieberman, Connecticut Democrats were simply encouraging "al Qaeda types?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-press/george-bush-is-right_b_27379.html

0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 10:10 am
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1558/250pxinternettrollveluillartlibrejnlbv9.jpg

Quote:
In Internet terminology, a troll is someone who comes into an established community such as an online discussion forum, and posts inflammatory, rude or offensive messages designed to intentionally annoy and antagonize the existing members or disrupt the flow of discussion as their only purpose.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 10:27 am
Cognitive dissonance

By Michael Barone
August 15, 2006

Last Tuesday, anti-Iraq war candidate Ned Lamont beat Sen. Joseph Lieberman in Connecticut's Democratic primary. On Thursday, British authorities arrested more than 20 British Muslims who were plotting to blow up American airliners over the Atlantic Ocean.
Tuesday was a victory for the angry antiwar left that set the tone in the Democrats' 2003-04 presidential cycle and seems likely to set the tone in 2007-08. But last Thursday reminded us there are, as George W. Bush has finally called them, Islamic fascist terrorists who want to kill us and destroy our way of life.
The Thursday lesson was not one last Tuesday's victors wanted to learn. Left-wing bloggers played an important part in Mr. Lamont's victory. Here's the reaction of one of them, John Aravosis, to the red alert ordered here in response to the British arrests: "Do I sound as if I don't believe this alert? Why, yes, that would be correct. I just don't believe it. Read the article. They say the plot had an 'al Qaeda footprint.' Ooh, are you scared yet?"
We are looking at cognitive dissonance. The mindset of the left blogosphere is that there's no real terrorist threat out there. We wouldn't have any serious problem if we would just do something different -- raise the minimum wage or reduce the number without health insurance (the first issue Mr. Lamont mentioned on election night), withdraw from Iraq or (as some left bloggers suggest) sell out Israel.
As for Mr. Lamont, on victory night he mentioned his policy to handle the nuclear threat posed by Iran: We should "bring in allies" and "use carrots as well as sticks." He evidently failed to notice we deputized Britain, France and Germany to negotiate with Iran for three years and that Iran was offered plenty of carrots and has not been threatened with many sticks. Once again, a disconnect with reality.
The mullahs and Iran's Holocaust-denying President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad want to destroy Israel and damage to United States as much as they can. They say so over and over again. They hate our way of life, our freedoms and our tolerance. Unfortunately, there's no obvious and easy way to handle the Iranian regime, just as there was no obvious and easy way to handle Adolf Hitler in the late 1930s.
At least Neville Chamberlain was made of sterner stuff. His Tuesday was the Munich agreement in September 1938, when he and the French persuaded Czechoslovakia to give up its borderlands to Hitler. He was cheered by vast crowds eager to avoid the horrors of war. His Thursday came in March 1939, when Nazi troops marched into Prague.
Chamberlain proceeded to build up Britain's military forces and to embark on a vigorous diplomacy to cabin Hitler in. He realized instantly he had been, as Winston Churchill said in his funeral oration in the House of Commons, "deceived by a wicked man." He prepared to call Churchill, his bitter critic on Munich, into government. Chamberlain's diplomacy ultimately failed: Hitler wanted war too much. But Chamberlain stayed true to his countrymen, yielding his place to Churchill and strenuously supporting him when Britain was in peril.
Can we expect as much of our left? It seems doubtful. Our left criticized George W. Bush when the New York Times revealed that the National Security Agency was surveilling telephone calls from al Qaeda suspects overseas to the United States. Now it appears the United States surveilled the British terrorists, who made phone calls to the United States. The left cried foul when the New York Times revealed that the United States was monitoring money transfers at the SWIFT bank clearinghouse in Brussels. Now it appears there was monitoring of money transfers by the British terrorists in Pakistan. On Tuesday, the left was gleeful that it was scoring political points against Mr. Bush. On Thursday, it seemed the supposedly controversial NSA surveillance contributed to savings thousands of lives.
Joseph Lieberman is criticized for saying, "I'm worried that too many people, both in politics and out, don't appreciate the seriousness of the threat to American security and the evil of the enemy that faces us -- more evil, or as evil, as Nazism and probably more dangerous than the Soviet communists we fought during the long Cold War. We cannot deceive ourselves that we live in safety today and the war is over, and it's why we have to stay strong and vigilant."
That view didn't prevail on Tuesday. But it sure made sense on Thursday.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 02:39 pm
JTT wrote:
Again, the hypocrisy, the doublespeak, the delusions of people who lie so readily, they can't keep their lies straight.


Quote:


George Bush is Right.......... Kind Of

I almost choked when I heard President Bush say, talking about the aborted London terror plot, "people in Washington just need to put politics aside and pull together in fighting terror."

He's right, of course.

But - it's a wonder lightning didn't strike him dead on the spot!

Does he think that we forget he and his henchmen accused Max Cleland of being cozy with Osama bin Laden?


Or that he swift-boated John Kerry as soft on terror?

Or that Republicans held their 2004 convention not far from Ground Zero and invoked September 11 twenty times in every speech?

How ?'bout Karl Rove telling Republicans to take the war on terror and beat Democrats over the head with it?

Or Dick Cheney saying that, by defeating Joe Lieberman, Connecticut Democrats were simply encouraging "al Qaeda types?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-press/george-bush-is-right_b_27379.html




Right on, JTT. Some folks just prefer delusion because then they don't have to deal with what IS. As William Rivers Pitt said:

"George W. Bush and his people can hold forth about the wonders of democracy and peace and can condemn worldwide violence in solemn tones. Until the US stops being the world's largest arms dealer, these words from our government absolutely reek of hypocrisy."
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 05:21 pm
Ticomaya wrote:


The sum total of Tico's discussion, above.

What's wrong with you, Tico? You've never been much for honesty but my last posting was right on target, the aftermath of Bush and bushites.

You can't simply dismiss the hypocrisy by changing the subject, though you're mighty good at that tangent man. Tried to pull another tico.
0 Replies
 
 

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