3
   

Bush supporters' aftermath thread II

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 12:28 am
JustWonders wrote:
Although some individual states may have blasphemy laws on the books here in the U.S., there's no way, I don't think, that a similar ad could have been banned here.


You've got your blinders on little girl. Can you say Cindy Sheehan, [fill in the blank with any number of names] [fill in the blank with thousands of names of protestors being cordoned off miles away from the action], ... ?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 12:46 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:


Take oil out of the international picture and the Middle East becomes Africa.

Africa is every bit as dysfunctional as the Middle East, and yet we couldn't care less---they don't have huge oil reserves.


A most refreshing bit of honesty, Finn and yet there are still these right wing dickheads about who spout the nonsense that the Iraq invasion was about something other than oil.

There are actually some idiots who suggest that the US went in there for the people of Iraq. Couldn't be the case, no way no how. The people of the US didn't give a **** all those years that Saddam was butchering people. Saddam was the US's main man.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 01:16 am
JTT wrote:
JustWonders wrote:
Although some individual states may have blasphemy laws on the books here in the U.S., there's no way, I don't think, that a similar ad could have been banned here.


You've got your blinders on little girl. Can you say Cindy Sheehan, [fill in the blank with any number of names] [fill in the blank with thousands of names of protestors being cordoned off miles away from the action], ... ?
Rolling Eyes What does Cindy Sheehan have to do with censoring offensive cartoons? Before insulting folks clearly more coherent than yourself, you might want to censor the word idiot from your posts. Idea
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 02:05 am
JustWonders wrote:
BTW, I'm a "she", and all of this is, of course, merely my opinion.

Thanks for clarifying. Smile
0 Replies
 
Mandso
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 02:08 am
man, i hate george bush
he's evil and cruel
too bad for the americans
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 05:15 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
... you might want to censor the word idiot from your posts.


Editing just ain't a possibility, OB, but here's the next best thing.

There are actually some dolts who suggest that the US went in there for the people of Iraq. Couldn't be the case, no way no how. The people of the US didn't give a **** all those years that Saddam was butchering people. Saddam was the US's main man.

Satisfied? Smile
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 07:38 am
McG and I are still waitin' for that big old tanker full of free oil to pull up any day now Smile


<McG...you get yours yet and keepin' it all for yerself?>
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 07:56 am
Failure is not proof of lack of intent, merely incompetence
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 08:01 am
JW,

I quite liked how Bush announced in the State of the Union how he wants to increase clean-energy research by 22 percent. And how he announced that in order to "change how we power our homes and offices, we will invest more in zero-emission coal-fired plants, revolutionary solar and wind technologies, and clean, safe nuclear energy."

Even though I'm not that attached to the idea of "clean, safe nuclear energy". Nevertheless, I particularly liked when he said:

"We must also change how we power our automobiles. We will increase our research in better batteries for hybrid and electric cars, and in pollution-free cars that run on hydrogen. We'll also fund additional research in cutting-edge methods of producing ethanol, not just from corn, but from wood chips and stalks, or switch grass. Our goal is to make this new kind of ethanol practical and competitive within six years."

Of course, when the same measures were proposed a couple of years ago (dare I say Kyoto?) they were dismissed as being too expensive, too much regulation, inefficient, hurting the economy et cetera. I guess it just depends how you sell it to your base.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 08:06 am
OE - he does that from time to time - just to confuse the Democrats and see if they're paying attention Smile

There will be a quiz at the end of his term LOL.

<Take notes>
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 08:17 am
JW,

I was just looking up his comments from 2001, when he said things like

Quote:
At a time when California has already experienced energy shortages, and other Western states are worried about price and availability of energy this summer, we must be very careful not to take actions that could harm consumers. This is especially true given the incomplete state of scientific knowledge of the causes of, and solutions to, global climate change and the lack of commercially available technologies for removing and storing carbon dioxide.


or

Quote:
I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a "pollutant" under the Clean Air Act.



Now, he announces clean-energy research programs and promotes zero-emission power plants as well as pollution-free cars. I could accuse him of flip-flopping, but I'm just too happy with his new plans.

Very Happy

P.S.: I am taking notes....
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 08:55 am
old europe wrote:
JW,

Of course, when the same measures were proposed a couple of years ago (dare I say Kyoto?) they were dismissed as being too expensive, too much regulation, inefficient, hurting the economy et cetera. I guess it just depends how you sell it to your base.


But Kyoto didn't involve just "the same measures". It was an internationsal treaty that purported to govern the future policies of signatory nations in a particularly onerous way. It exempted the nations accounting for the most rapid growth in energy consumption and emissions entirely. It also exempted all the nations of the former Soviet Empire from any limits whatever. Finally, through a clever choice of the reference year against which changes would be measured, it gave Europe a relatively lighter burden. It would have caused great damage to the U.S. economy, and very likely those of the other signatory nations - none of which are likely to meet their targets for emission reduction. I strongly suspect that serious policy makers in Europe are secretly pleased that they have the United States to blame for their own flabby failures to deal seriously and truthfully with public issues.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 09:32 am
georgeob1 wrote:
But Kyoto didn't involve just "the same measures".


And it's not what I said. And regardless of my opinion of how desirable (or not) Kyoto actually is, you have to admit two things:

- the same measures have been proposed years ago.
- they were not implied, the argument generally being that they were a danger to the US economy.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 09:49 am
old europe wrote:
JW,

I was just looking up his comments from 2001, when he said things like

Quote:
At a time when California has already experienced energy shortages, and other Western states are worried about price and availability of energy this summer, we must be very careful not to take actions that could harm consumers. This is especially true given the incomplete state of scientific knowledge of the causes of, and solutions to, global climate change and the lack of commercially available technologies for removing and storing carbon dioxide.


or

Quote:
I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a "pollutant" under the Clean Air Act.



Now, he announces clean-energy research programs and promotes zero-emission power plants as well as pollution-free cars. I could accuse him of flip-flopping, but I'm just too happy with his new plans.

Very Happy

P.S.: I am taking notes....


I definitely have a few bones to pick with our president and I'm sure the White House and my elected representatives are tired of hearing from me on those bones. There is also much that I appreciate and admire about him, too, and I pass along those observations as well as my complaints.

And speaking of bones, one thing I like about him is that I don't believe he has a phony bone in his body. He is who he is, says what he thinks, and doesn't worry a whole lot about how it might sound. And when he is speaking extemporaneously, he says stuff that can sound a lot different from his thoughts when he has an opportunity to explain and expand on them. Of course this is the stuff that makes for all the funny one-liners and sound bites on the evening news and his enemies do use those against him. But some of us think it makes him look more real and human instead of just another opportunistic politician.

Has he flip flopped on the environmental stuff? Possibly. This new policy shift looks as if he may have rethought some things though his environmental track record has been a lot better than what he's gotten credit for. And what does that mean? Have the pro-global-warming scientists convinced him he was wrong? Or has he been thinking this way all along but was just not willing to go along with Kyoto and his policy has been to clean up the environment without hamstringing industry? It's hard to say at this time.

I just hope those who are taking notes are taking notes on all he says instead of just the sound bites. Smile
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 09:53 am
If 'back-paddling' was an Olympic disciplne, I would like to give you nearly a "6.0", Foxfyre, in the 'B-note'. ('A' perhaps only a 5.7) :wink:
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 09:53 am
I am wondering though if this policy shift on environmental stuff is not reinforcing a perception that the President is not the conservative we wanted him to be. I can't see that he got any bounce in the polls and in fact may have taken a minor hit. He didn't help himself either by not speaking more forcefully on border control and not at least threatening a veto of some of the pork laden spending that has been coming out of Congress lately. Then again he did ask for a line item veto so that was encouraging.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 09:55 am
And okay Walter. What have I backpaddled on?(Actually it's backpedal.) What have I said here that I am contradicting myself on? I rerread it and I don't see it.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 09:58 am
Foxfyre wrote:
I am wondering though if this policy shift on environmental stuff is not reinforcing a perception that the President is not the conservative we wanted him to be. I can't see that he got any bounce in the polls and in fact may have taken a minor hit. and not at least threatening a veto of some of the pork laden spending that has been coming out of Congress lately. Then again he did ask for a line item veto so that was encouraging.


He is not the conservative you wanted him to be? That's a rather surprising confession, Foxy.

However, re "He didn't help himself either by not speaking more forcefully on border control", I was indeed quite astonished when I heard him saying

Quote:
We hear claims that immigrants are somehow bad for the economy -- even though this economy could not function without them.


Yes, I'm taking notes.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 10:06 am
Foxfyre wrote:
(Actually it's backpedal.)


(Actually I really meant paddling back and not backpedal.)
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 10:08 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Modern Arabic culture, irrespective of Islam, is so intolerant, so machismo, so irrational, that there is little hope for a peaceful resolution of the conflicts among oil bearing nations.


Unfortunately Finn, I feel current American culture fills this bill every bit as well as the arabs.

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
There is no greater international issue facing the US than freeing ourselves from the thrall of a incredibly dysfunctional region of the earth.

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Take oil out of the international picture and the Middle East becomes Africa.


You get that right! That's why I think it's fantasy to think we're going to make this grand democracy for them. These people been killing each other since the beginning of time, what makes us think we'll ever blow through that? I'm afraid we have made the same mistake as Russia by trying to dominate these people, and we are getting the same result. We're going broke doing it, and we're killing and maiming our youth doing it. Our soldiers are coming back all messed up psychologically, just like they did from VietNam, and it's going to be a major health and mental health issue for years. We've made a huge misstep by doing this.

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Africa is every bit as dysfunctional as the Middle East, and yet we couldn't care less---they don't have huge oil reserves.


Too True!!

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
The Arabs of today are not the Arabs that gave us mathematics, any more than the Greeks of today are not the Greeks that gave us philosophy.

Converting our economy to a non-oil based platform is incredibly daunting. Converting the Arabs to a liberal democratic society is even more daunting, and therefore we need to push corn husk fuels!


Corn Husk fuels may help us get by a crises, but we need to do better than that!

Anon
0 Replies
 
 

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