3
   

Bush supporters' aftermath thread II

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2006 11:26 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Now you can call that digging a hole if you want, and I don't doubt that you consider me your inferior to discuss these things. But I personally think there is generally more to every story than just numbers.

You are not my inferior, and I don't know where you get the idea that I consider you to be. I simply think your arguments were wrong. Nothing personal. And with that, I give up on this particular point.
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2006 11:49 am
foxfyre wrote:
A highschool dropout is unlikely to qualify for a $60,000+ job anywhere


Unless they're in Texas Smile

This story was in the print edition of the Houston Chronicle a few days ago:

Quote:
The quiet economic revival that began five or six years ago when oil prices began rising now is a boom. The conventional wisdom here is that the only folks not working are the folks who simply don't want to.

"There is so much work around here, we have more jobs than workers. We've got pumpers making $45,000 to $50,000," said the city's mayor, Jack Blakely, a production foreman for a pumping company.

"Plains Marketing, a trucking firm that hauls oil, has been advertising for drivers at $50,000 to $60,000 a year," he said.

The company also is offering a $12,000 annual bonus. Even without that, its drivers can earn up to $80,000 just paid on commission, a spokesman for Plains said, noting the company still is short drivers.

And if one is willing to climb the stairs to the drilling rig to tackle that hard, dirty and dangerous work, one's earnings are limited only by the available overtime.

"I get paid $27 an hour and $80 a day to show up. I made pretty close to $100,000 last year," said Joel Rodriguez, 21, a driller from Odessa who was working on a rig about 30 miles north of Big Lake.


Mr. Rodriguez is a high school dropout, but willing to do the hard, dirty and dangerous work - at least while it lasts.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2006 11:51 am
Dear SS/JustGiggles It's so nice to read your opinion, I get goosebumps.
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2006 11:55 am
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2006 12:13 pm
SierraSong wrote:
foxfyre wrote:
A highschool dropout is unlikely to qualify for a $60,000+ job anywhere


Unless they're in Texas Smile

This story was in the print edition of the Houston Chronicle a few days ago:

Quote:
The quiet economic revival that began five or six years ago when oil prices began rising now is a boom. The conventional wisdom here is that the only folks not working are the folks who simply don't want to.

"There is so much work around here, we have more jobs than workers. We've got pumpers making $45,000 to $50,000," said the city's mayor, Jack Blakely, a production foreman for a pumping company.

"Plains Marketing, a trucking firm that hauls oil, has been advertising for drivers at $50,000 to $60,000 a year," he said.

The company also is offering a $12,000 annual bonus. Even without that, its drivers can earn up to $80,000 just paid on commission, a spokesman for Plains said, noting the company still is short drivers.

And if one is willing to climb the stairs to the drilling rig to tackle that hard, dirty and dangerous work, one's earnings are limited only by the available overtime.

"I get paid $27 an hour and $80 a day to show up. I made pretty close to $100,000 last year," said Joel Rodriguez, 21, a driller from Odessa who was working on a rig about 30 miles north of Big Lake.


Mr. Rodriguez is a high school dropout, but willing to do the hard, dirty and dangerous work - at least while it lasts.


Yes, you see success stories like these too. There are auto body repair experts here pulling down substantial incomes, a few even six figures, and at least one of these is a highschool dropout. He did go to vo-tech school though.

The normal recipe for financial success though remains what it has been for at least my lifetime: Stay in school, study, and get that diploma; get more education if possible; don't get pregnant before marriage; don't do drugs or other illegal activities, be willing to take an entry level job to be able to develop and demontrate a work ethic and master a marketable trade. You won't find many people who do this in the poor, working poor, or lower middle class categories for long.
0 Replies
 
MarionT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2006 01:51 pm
That's bunk. The lower half of the country is being shafted with the rise in inflation. The senior citizens are having to eat dog food so that they can pay the atrocious prices of the medications they need when the CEO's of these companies are making millions per year. The 4.7% Unemployment is a lie. If one counts the discouraged people, there are over 10% unemployed. Minority Unemployment rates because of lingering racism means that the African-American Unemployment rate is over 20%. But Bushie doesn't care, because despite the window dressing named Rice, he is a racist!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Sep, 2006 07:29 am
Quote:
I don't think there is any question that there will never be a time in the affiars of Americans or people anywhere that we can say everything is perfect. I think hell will freeze over before orgasnizations like Time or the NY Times et al will publish anything in a way that makes it look like the current administration has done anything good. There are weaknesses, of course. There always will be. But the good is very impressive right now and the media is making pretzels out of itself before it will acknowledge that wthout major qualifications.


foxfyre
I believe I shall write you a song. You deserve at least this much.


(WE) DUB YA DITS

Speaking of the royal "We"
the Regal Eagle in DC
with proclamations on TV
or cluster bombs, if need may be,
reveals the will of God, that he
is happ'ly privy to

"How do We know that voice is He?
Has He vested Sovereignty
In someone else who is not We?
No! See the clear transparency
He wills Our will and He will see
it will be listened to

"Behold the pundictocracy!
You'd think they thought that they were We!
The Author of Authority
has We alone made We as We
and Sanctified tautology.
We will be listened to.

"Thus is Proclaimed with urgency
which pundit friend, which enemy,
and laying sword on foxfyre, We
commend the end of comedy
make her the pundit, less the pun.
On her the mantle fits
We dub ya 'Dits'".

Sing it with me everyone!
Dub ya dits
Dub ya dits
Dub ya dits
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Sep, 2006 07:38 am
Zogby America Poll. Sept. 12-14, 2006. N=1,034 likely voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.1.


"Is your overall opinion of George W. Bush very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable, or very unfavorable, or you are not familiar enough to form an opinion?"

Favorable: 51% Unfavorable: 47% Unsure: 2%

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushFav.htm





(It's Zogby - take with a grain of salt. Still, nice to see)
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Sep, 2006 08:20 am
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/twi/lowres/twin273l.jpg
0 Replies
 
MarionT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Sep, 2006 11:24 pm
Zogby lies. There is no way in which Bush is at 51% favorability. That just doesn't compare with the other polls. We must never forget that there are billions of dollars behind the Bushies. The Oil Cartel and the greedy CEO's are not above bribing people to get on board and to provide goofy data.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 12:30 am
MarionT wrote:
Zogby lies. There is no way in which Bush is at 51% favorability. That just doesn't compare with the other polls. We must never forget that there are billions of dollars behind the Bushies. The Oil Cartel and the greedy CEO's are not above bribing people to get on board and to provide goofy data.

Notice that Sierra Song is citing the "favorability" rating. He isn't citing the "approval" rating, the figure they cite in the news the most often. Bush's approval rating, according to Zogby, is 39%. By either measure, Bush's reputation seems to be recovering somewhat, but not dramatically so.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 12:37 am
Thomas wrote:
MarionT wrote:
Zogby lies. There is no way in which Bush is at 51% favorability. That just doesn't compare with the other polls. We must never forget that there are billions of dollars behind the Bushies. The Oil Cartel and the greedy CEO's are not above bribing people to get on board and to provide goofy data.

Notice that Sierra Song is citing the "favorability" rating. He isn't citing the "approval" rating, the figure they cite in the news the most often. Bush's approval rating, according to Zogby, is 39%. By either measure, Bush's reputation seems to be recovering somewhat, but not dramatically so.


Wothehell is a "favourability rating"?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 01:12 am
dlowan wrote:
Wothehell is a "favourability rating"?

The favorability rating rates people on a slighly different question. "Is your overall opinion of this guy favorable or unfavorable?" By contrast, "approval ratings typically ask: Do you approve or disapprove of the job this guy is doing?" So I gather that "approval" specifically applies to how the guy does his job, while "favorability" applies to the guy as a person in general. (German pollsters sometimes capture this by asking questions such as, "would you like do have a drink with him?", or "would you buy a used car from him?")

The Zogby favorability figure apparently wasn't chosen at random. No pollster currently has Bush's approval rating anywhere near 50%, and no pollster except Zogby has his favorability rating anywhere near it, either.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 01:15 am
Thomas wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Wothehell is a "favourability rating"?

The favorability rating rates people on a slighly different question. "Is your overall opinion of this guy favorable or unfavorable?" By contrast, "approval ratings typically ask: Do you approve or disapprove of the job this guy is doing?" So I gather that "approval" specifically applies to how the guy does his job, while "favorability" applies to the guy as a person in general. (German pollsters sometimes capture this by asking questions such as, "would you like do have a drink with him?", or "would you buy a used car from him?")

The Zogby favorability figure apparently wasn't chosen at random. No pollster currently has Bush's approval rating anywhere near 50%, and no pollster except Zogby has his favorability rating anywhere near it, either.


Thank you!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 05:25 am
John Yoo. This guy first came to my attention five or six years ago when PBS News began using him in discussions on legal/political matters. He hit the bigtime, news-wise, with the revelation that he had co-authored the "torture memo" within the justice department (along with David Addington, Bush's second, and others). He still pops up here and there arguing for expanded presidential powers and related issues, including still justifying torture (see Sunday op ed in NY Times).

And below is how he came down on the legal/constitutional matters related to expanded presidential powers when Clinton was in office...
Quote:
President Clinton exercised the powers of the imperial presidency to the utmost in the area in which those powers are already at their height -- in our dealings with foreign nations. Unfortunately, the record of the administration has not been a happy one, in light of its costs to the Constitution and the American legal system. On a series of different international relations matters, such as war, international institutions, and treaties, President Clinton has accelerated the disturbing trends in foreign policy that undermine notions of democratic accountability and respect for the rule of law.
link

This really ought not to be surprising. Placing individuals into positions of power and influence who, above all else, hold party and ideological fealty to the Bush circle and the new conservative movement has been a pervasive strategy of this White House. It is a strategy consistently used by Rove (along with Ralph Reed, Jack Abramoff and Grover Norquist) ever since their days in the college republicans. Purge the moderates, replace them with ideologues of the proper sort, and defund/disempower other individuals/groups/organizations who can or do represent alternatives...see Easton's Gang of Five).

In the present, the SC nominees (and all other nominees to lower courts) clearly follow the model. But it is far more pervasive than just the courts.

In the CIA, Peter Goss' primary organizational task/goal was to remove or demote anyone who did not operate to the political advantage of the president (see Suskind's book). Under Goss, almost the entire top structure of the CIA, including many who were uniquely expert and experienced, have taken early retirement and Goss was finally removed for the negative consequences he wrecked upon the CIA.

Regulatory agencies too have been purged of administrators who were insufficiently "loyal". Where individuals have blown the whistle, they've been punished, silenced, or removed or all three.

Likewise, the military. "Fiasco" details the removal or side-lining of the top commanders who "spoke out of turn" or who argued too much with the civilians in the WH, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, Addington and those associated. The marginalization and disempowerment of Powell is in this pattern.

Or, one can refer to Richard Clarke's accounts of the purging of Clinton staff out of the intel and state and counter-terrorism departments beginning the moment that this WH took over.

And same with communications functions, most notably the FCC and Public Broadcasting (Tomlinson remains in his position, by the way, even after the recent reports). And the payment to reporters to write stories favorable to Bush policies is in this mold, as is the contracting of corporations like the Lincoln Group to create and distribute propaganda, to both foreign and domestic constituencies.

Or, one can look at the marginalization (the silencing, effectively) of the older generation of Republican moderates such as Scowcroft, Baker, Shultz, etc.

Yesterday, the Washington Post detailed a story we've known about for several years, but it is a good thing to be reminded regarding...the employment criteria for positions in The Green Zone in Iraq. Ideological fealty, electoral contribution and family connection are the criteria. link

The creation of what is designed to be a fully separate (and NOT independent) umbrella of "news" providers pre-dates the Bush admininstration's arrival, but it has blossomed with funding and support in the last six years (eg Cheney, "I only watch Fox. It is balanced.") The manipulation of independent media is a story that is well covered by Alterman, Brock, Suskind, Boehlert and others but we really don't know the full extent of this yet, if we ever will. Corporate boardroom conversations or contacts between them and the WH staffs won't be known.

For the true believers, all of this will be just fine. For the rest of us, it presents a real set of problems. Not only does power have to change hands, but then this entire program will have to be detailed (and made known publicly) followed by some sort of counter-purge.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 05:32 am
blatham wrote:
John Yoo. This guy first came to my attention five or six years ago when PBS News began using him in discussions on legal/political matters. He hit the bigtime, news-wise, with the revelation that he had co-authored the "torture memo" within the justice department (along with David Addington, Bush's second, and others).

Please help me figure out if I'm thinking of the right torture memo guy. Is John Yoo also the one who drafted a statement of support for Bush's torture bill, which the White House then pressured a group of JAG lawyers to sign? (They ended up signing a very vaguely worded variation of the draft.) Is Yoo the guy Bush is nominating for an appeals court position? (Fourth or fifth district, I believe.)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 05:37 am
thomas

I didn't know he'd been involved in writing the Jag officer PR release (that's what it was), but if the Yoo name is involved, that's him. Looks like his discreditation was temporary...but that's how this administration functions - keep the people who are loyal even if you move them temporarily out of the spotlight. I don't know about the court appointment, but again, if the name John Yoo tops that appointment request, it will be him. There's no question he's smart. Unfortunately, he is also of the totalitarian mode.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 06:01 am
I just found time to search the web a bit. As it turns out, I confused John Yo with William Haynes. Hanyes is one of the torture-memo guys -- he was Yo's boss in that capacity. He also authored the JAG lawyer letter. President Bush nominated him for the 4th Court of Appeals.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 07:43 am
OK. Interesting guy. I don't know much about him at this point. He was given a nod from some folks in the senate (perhaps McCain and Graham) whom I respect. But I've bumped into some serious-looking negatives on him as well. This Jag move was one. Folks do not get into this administration or don't continute in it unless they are bullies themselves or unless they are perfectly bullyable.
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 09:05 am
Thomas wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Wothehell is a "favourability rating"?

The favorability rating rates people on a slighly different question. "Is your overall opinion of this guy favorable or unfavorable?" By contrast, "approval ratings typically ask: Do you approve or disapprove of the job this guy is doing?" So I gather that "approval" specifically applies to how the guy does his job, while "favorability" applies to the guy as a person in general. (German pollsters sometimes capture this by asking questions such as, "would you like do have a drink with him?", or "would you buy a used car from him?")

The Zogby favorability figure apparently wasn't chosen at random. No pollster currently has Bush's approval rating anywhere near 50%, and no pollster except Zogby has his favorability rating anywhere near it, either.


Huh. Never occured to me that there would be folks here who didn't understand the difference between 'favorable' and 'approval'.
0 Replies
 
 

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