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Bush supporters' aftermath thread II

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 07:42 am
Maybe you could show where Sierra said any or ALL writers from the 50's. I should have added 'exaggeration' to my list describing Defeatocrats. Smile
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 07:49 am
Foxfyre wrote:
.....those folks in their fifties and sixties, a whole bunch are quite nicely conservative and even vote Republican.


Yes, and it is precisely those folks whom I think deserve to know about this new GOP principle concerning how their age group really doesn't count or have anything to say.

Like I said, the Republicans really shouldn't just let this lay in the background. As this is a bold departure from their old image, they should take pains to let the entire country know this is the new direction they are heading in, and give a list of new policies they plan based on the principle that if you grew up in the fifties, you should be quiet and not voice your concerns.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 07:53 am
It's good to know that Foxfyre is keeping up with all the latest jingoism;
""Defeatocrats!" declared a statement issued by office of the House majority leader, John A. Boehner of Ohio, capturing the tone of Republican rhetoric as the news unfolded."
Good on ya fox, perhaps you can throw in some more fad terms like "my bad" etc. You're just too hip to be square, init?
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 07:55 am
Sorry, Foxfyre, but Sierra highlighted the author's admission that he grew up in the fifties for her criticism. Nothing else was quoted, because Sierra clearly meant that nothing else was necessary to dismiss this writer.

His ideas were untouched, unquoted, and unexplored. Sierra clearly felt that a sentence revealing that the author grew up in the fifties was all that was necessary to effectively dispose of this writer's thoughts.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 07:56 am
kelticwizard wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
.....those folks in their fifties and sixties, a whole bunch are quite nicely conservative and even vote Republican.


Yes, and it is precisely those folks whom I think deserve to know about this new GOP principle concerning how their age group really doesn't count or have anything to say.

Like I said, the Republicans really shouldn't just let this lay in the background. As this is a bold departure from their old image, they should take pains to let the entire country know this is the new direction they are heading in, and give a list of new policies they plan based on the principle that if you grew up in the fifties, you should be quiet and not voice your concerns.


Well, most of those 'older Americans' can read and can tell when somebody has distorted the words and intent of another member. Kinda like you have here.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 08:03 am
SierraSong wrote:
The old fool wrote:
Growing up in the '50s...


Thanks. I'll file this under more whining from the Defeatocrats.

No much room for interpeting.
"Old fool"- grows up in the 50's-whining Defeatocrats
you have some spin to add to this Fox?
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 08:23 am
Right you are Dys.

I just want to add that Sierra's quote above was her entire rebuttal to a 750 word piece written by a famous author. She simply renamed the author "The Old Fool" and quoted a snippet of a sentence where he tells us he grew up in the 1950's.

Speaks volumes about how the Republicans feel about this age group. People of all ages deserve to know this.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 08:34 am
Well now you guys have to admit that some of you who grew up in the 50's deserve to be criticized and maybe even dismissed as 'over the hill' or "out of touch' or "out of it" or something. Wouldn't you agree with that? Smile
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 08:36 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
For those who claim that the economy has improved under Bush, you are either deceived or flat-out lying.

Here is a state-by-state map of median income change over the last 6 years:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/blogphotos/Blog_Median_Income_By_State.gif

Doesn't look too good, does it?

Maybe now some of you will realize why most people consistently report negative feelings about the economy these days, even though the rich and Corporations are getting richer....

Cycloptichorn


Found an interesting peice revolving around this idea...

Economics for Idiots - 101

Now I know that all you aspiring and junior deputy economists out there are smarter than your average bear.

And I know that economics, when it really boils down to it, is REALLY not that difficult.

So for your average person, economics should be a pretty easy concept to grasp and usually, it is.
Unfortunately, not everybody is gifted as us. We have people that are not necessarily as smart as us. Some people are poorer and never learned to read. Additionally, the public schools do their darnedest to turn out idiots, and thusly something as simple as economics is like trying to understand quantum physics for a lot of people.

So, because I am a kind, charitable soul, I thought I'd offer a lesson for the stupid people in the world. Kind of an "Economics for Idiots" lesson, so that not only can geniuses like you and me understand economics. Not only can average everyday people understand economics. But complete freaking retards and mollusk can understand economics.

This need for "Economics Lessons for Idiots" was brought to my attention when I got an e-mail from American Progress.org highlighting the recent Census Bureau report on income distriubtion and poverty and wealth as PROOF POSITIVE Bush's economic policies are creating Nazis and killing babies.

The proof?

Well, as you know my affinity for charts, I decided to use the chart they sent me;

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7944/562/1600/poverty.gif

A pity. Shame shame shame. Obviously the work of a retard...or a mollusk.

OK, so, let's begin the lesson in Economics for Idiots - 101 because it is glaringly obvious we need one.

First, if you're going to make a chart, don't manipulate it by changing the scale on the Y-axis so that it shows this dramatic increase when in reality, it is quite small. If you are an idiot, you would look at this chart and think poverty has tripled under the Bush presidency. When in reality it's only gone up by 20%.

Now the idiots over at the Center for American Progress will still probably get all in a tizzy over that fact right there, a 20% increase in poverty. They'll salavate over it, HEE HEEE HEEEE HEEE! 20% increase, WE HAVE BUSH NOW!!!!

Well, that's because they're idiots.

Any person of average intelligence would say, "hey, hasn't the population of the country been growing? And wouldn't a more accurate measure be some kind of, you know, "poverty rate," you know, like the percent of the population that's under the poverty threshold?" And by golly, those good men and women at the Census Bureau have calculated just such a thing. They call it;

THE POVERTY RATE!

Those crafty devils!

Well here's a chart FROM THAT SAME DAMNING REPORT that shows the poverty rate.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7944/562/1600/poverty%20rate.jpg

Not quite so damning is it? The poverty rate doesn't show this dramatic increase in poverty as the Center for American Progress would have you believe. Who would have guessed a communist institution like the Center for American Progress would misrepresent data?

Second, also notice another thing, aspiring and junior deputy economists. Notice how the chart from the Center for American Progress goes back a whopping 5 years. While the good men and women of the Census Bureau go back to 1959. See, this is what we call "context."

With context we see that the poverty rate, though ever so slightly up, is still technically at a historic low. Thus, official economists would come to the professional conclusion that;

"People should shut the hell up and stop their whining. Poverty is not a problem in America."

Third, no doubt you've heard this Census Bureau report being paraded by the left for the fact that incomes have remained stagnant or slightly dropped in the past 4-5 years. Again, PROOF POSITIVE that Bush is out hurling rocks at the elderly and kicking dogs. But do you see a trend here? The left keeps going back only 4-5 years. Might it be time, once again ladies and gentlemen, to use that "context" we learned about earlier?

Well, here's the chart;

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7944/562/1600/work%20pelase.gif

When you look at it you'll notice them nice slim shady lines. Those are recessions. Notice after each recession how real incomes historically have dropped and then recovered, as you WOULD NORMALLY EXPECT THEM TO DO???? So perhaps this is just a function of a normally functioning economy and not Bush hurling rocks at the elderly?

You see folks, this what happens when you have publicly educated children who never grow up and major in El Crapo studies in college while working for some non-profit or the government because they have no skills of use that the private sector would actually want to fork over good money for. People who find nothing wrong with misrepresenting data and reality to the detriment of society because it makes them feel good and feel like their lives actually have a purpose. Because they feel like they're crusaders. Because they feel like they're heroes fighting some imagined evil (If you need an amazingly interesting reference to this cowardly psychology, please feel free to read this post).


Fourth and finally. This will be your assignment in Economics for Idiots - 101. What might the effect be on poverty levels AND WAGES OF THE LOWER INCOME QUINTILES if 10.5 million illegal aliens have entered the country AND if the Census Bureau does NOT exclude non-citizens from the data?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 08:44 am
Another consideration is that I believe a careful analysis of income and working poor will show a small spike in lower incomes early in periods of essentially full employment as we have now. This is because people are going to work and many are going to work at entry level wages which used to be expected and not considered a negative. I would guess that very few of those will stay at entry level wages, however, as it is still true that those who actually work for their pay will usually move up the economic ladder fairly efficiently.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 09:14 am
Siera might be on to something, Bush and Cheney grew up in the 50's, I'm figuring Rusmsfeld for a decade or two prior.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 09:18 am
glitterbag wrote:
Siera might be on to something, Bush and Cheney grew up in the 50's, I'm figuring Rusmsfeld for a decade or two prior.


And Bill and Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, and most of your other champions also did a lot of their growing up in the 50's. So at least use a brush broad enough to get everybody.
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 09:25 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Another consideration is that I believe a careful analysis of income and working poor will show a small spike in lower incomes early in periods of essentially full employment as we have now. This is because people are going to work and many are going to work at entry level wages which used to be expected and not considered a negative. I would guess that very few of those will stay at entry level wages, however, as it is still true that those who actually work for their pay will usually move up the economic ladder fairly efficiently.


Unless you work for the Defeatocrats Smile

Quote:
Democrats for Worker Exploitation
National Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee hires firm that pays subminimum wages to push for a higher minimum wage.

A group that raises money for Democratic Congressional candidates uses a canvassing company that pays some workers submimium wage, in apparent violation of Wisconsin state law, to talk about the need to raise the federal minimum wage, Isthmus newspaper has learned. The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), based in Washington, D.C., has hired Grassroots Campaigns, a Boston-based for-profit company with operations in 18 U.S. cities, to conduct canvassing on its behalf. The DCCC's "New Direction for American" agenda, which provides the talkiing points canvassers are taught to use to solicit contributions, includes a call to "Raise the minimum wage."


http://www.thedailypage.com/features/docfeed/docs/document.php?intdocid=187


Oh, the irony.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 09:42 am
SierraSong wrote:

Oh, the irony.


I agree, it must be irony to publish such under that above headline:



Quote:
The handout labelled "Grassroots Voter Outreach" was provided by Miles Kristan, a Madison student who worked for Grassroots Campaigns, soliciting money for the DCCC. Emily Larsen, the regional director for Grassroots Campaigns (her region includes Madison as well as offices in Minnesota, Texas and Colorado) and Wes Jones, the company's national canvass director, both say that Grassroots Voter Outreach is distinct from Grassroots Campaigns. Jones describes it as a "sister" company that solicits money for nonpolitcal nonprofit groups.

But the terms of employment appear similar, including the stipulation that "A canvasser who does not meet quota will not receive base pay and will instead be paid" a percentage of what he or she collects. The handout specifies that Grassroots Voter Outreach pays a 30% rate to those who do not make quota; Jones and former Madison employees of Grassroots Campaigns say they received a rate of 47%, which could and sometimes did amount to less than minmum wage.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 09:50 am
hmm, I don't think that you fellows have been using the most up-to-date data available:

Quote:
http://www.epinet.org/images/incomepict20060829fig1.gif

Thus, despite the positive overall median income growth of 1.1%, other evidence in today's report suggests that this recovery is still leaving working families behind.

Two important concepts for understanding today's Census data and the economic fortunes of Americans are the median household income and the poverty rate. The median household is the one right in the middle of the income scale: half of all households have higher incomes and half have lower. The poverty rate measures the share of persons in households with incomes below a minimum threshold, adjusted for family size. In 2005, the threshold for a four-person family was $19,971.

Last year's gain in median household income is the first since 1999, and as such is a welcome reversal in trend. But it has come late in an economic recovery that is already losing steam. As noted, median income is still 2.7% below its level in 2000 (the last economic peak), a loss of about $1,280 to the typical household (in 2005 dollars).

Yet the economy has expanded considerably over these years. Gross domestic product (GDP), the broadest measure of economic growth, is up 12.5% from 2000 to 2005; productivity, or output per hour, is up 16.6% in that period. This latter measure is particularly important because it is widely considered to be a key determinant of living standards. Yet the income of the median household is still below its 2000 level, and the poverty rate, at 12.6%, remains well above its 11.3% level in that peak year.http://www.epinet.org/images/incomepict20060829fig21.gif

As for health insurance coverage, the overall number of Americans without health insurance increased for the fifth year in a row. Up nearly seven million since 2000, to 46.6 million in 2005, the share of uninsured Americans has increased from 14.2% to 15.9%.

In another example of the difficulties facing working Americans, the greatest declines in health insurance coverage occurred in employment-based insurance, which has dropped every year since 2000. In 2000, 63.6% of the population had employment-based coverage. By 2005, this rate had dropped to 59.5%.

There was a significant increase in the number of uninsured workers between 2004 and 2005. In 2005, 18.7% of all workers were uninsured. Most strikingly, however, is the fact that full-time workers experienced lower rates of coverage in 2005, while part-time workers did not. There were nearly one million more uninsured full-time workers in 2005 than in 2004, with a significant increase of 2 percentage points in the share of uninsured workers since 2000.

In other words, the economic growth of the last few years has largely bypassed middle- and low-income families, and especially working families. Other data sources, such as the national income accounts, reveal historically high growth rates of "non-labor income" such as corporate profits, suggesting growth has been eluding wage earners and flowing up the income scale to those with high levels of assets. Today's data corroborate this dynamic, showing that the gains that did occur tended to show up among higher income households, and not among those who depend on their paychecks to get ahead.

Note: This report deals exclusively with income and poverty data from the Current Population Survey (CPS). The Census Bureau also released data today from the American Community Survey. According to Census guidelines, the CPS data are preferable for evaluating national trends; the Census recommends the use of ACS data for state-level analysis.


http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_econindicators_income20060829

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 09:57 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
SierraSong wrote:

Oh, the irony.


I agree, it must be irony to publish such under that above headline:


Yeah. And also read the part that says:

Quote:
Canvassers have had enough
Dem-hired outfit pays sub-minimum wages to push for higher minimum wage

Alex Scherer-Jones began working for Grassroots Campaigns to fight the Bush administration and elevate the fortunes of the Democratic Party. The 21-year-old MATC student left feeling exploited and sour: "I went in there being very idealistic and it kind of ruined my idealism."

The job involves going door to door asking people to give money to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, using talking points that include a call to raise the minimum wage. For this, Scherer-Jones says he was paid far less than the state minimum wage of $6.50 an hour.

"I worked 37 hours one week and got paid around $130 [after taxes]," recalls Scherer-Jones, who quit after two weeks.

John Dedering worked for Grassroots Campaigns for about a month last year and again this year. He says the company paid a satisfactory base wage in 2005, when he canvassed for Environmental Action, but this year switched to a new system, dropping his wages to less than minimum.

Juan Ruiz says he put in about 45 hours working at Grassroots Campaigns for five days this year, and was paid just $56. And Miles Kristan produces pay stubs for two two-week periods, during which he says he typically worked 50 hours per week. One is for $339.81, the other for $281.50. Before taxes. (For these and more, see Document Feed at The DailyPage.com.)


And...


Quote:
Emily Larson, Grassroots Campaigns' regional director (she also oversees operations in Minnesota, Texas and Colorado), defers all wage-related questions to Wes Jones, the company's national canvass director. Jones confirms that some Madison canvassers may be receiving sub-minimum wage, but insists there's nothing wrong with this.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 10:04 am
Well, besides that I did the same for nothing (that's one of the reasons I'm a party member) - if it's against the law, now even published with testemonies, of course the relevant authorities will take action against that company.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 10:34 am
foxfyre

Just as a thought, you know, on the point of principle trumping party fealty, perhaps you ought to let your buddy in on the contribution that old fool has made to American culture.

Or, optionally, you can start using her spiffy new cliche too and fully take on that notion of "education" recently suggested by the President of Iran.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 11:18 am
Blatham, I don't have to agree with everything my friends believe or say in order to appreciate them or engage in dialogue with them. And I alllow a bit of exaggeration that is clearly used for emphasis and I understand that a statement about one thing does not necessarily apply to everything. So I'll leave the pompous holier-than-thou expoundings of instruction to you and your friends.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Sep, 2006 12:25 pm
Sierra Song did not exaggerate or use Keillor's age for emphasis.

She simply quoted the part where he said he grew up in the fifties, labelled him "the old fool", and that constituted her entire reason for dismissing everything he said. Period.

It is clear that she is bursting with contempt for that age group. And if there is one person who can be relied upon to come out with the official GOP position on anything, it is most certainly Sierra Song.
0 Replies
 
 

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