THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

ican711nm wrote:

Gelisgesti wrote:

Somebody declare war? Don't you mean 'occupation' zone?
Do you know the difference between an Iraqi citizen and a terrorist?

Yes, somebody declared war:

1. Osama Bin Laden "Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places"-1996;
and,
Osama Bin Laden: Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans-1998
http://www.mideastweb.org/osambinladen1.htm

and some more blah blah blah

Last I heard, OBL was not head of a country, and al Quaida was not a sovereign state.

It was an invasion, and is an occupation. Illegal, immoral, unjustified by any fact, and stupid.
The "war" part was subduing a weakened enemy, who had no air force, with no regards for its civilians: in other words, a cowardly attack.

A battle of wits with an unarmed man ....

Gelisgesti wrote:

A battle of wits with an unarmed man ....

Aha! That explains it. I sincerely apologize! I mistakenly thought you were armed for a battle of wits.

Amigo wrote:

This is a link (thanks, Amigo) to a very interesting film which I recommend that everyone see.

...
Last I heard, OBL was not head of a country, and al Quaida was not a sovereign state.
Yes! Both are true.

It was an invasion, and is an occupation. Illegal, immoral, unjustified by any fact, and stupid.
The Iraq fighting is a war that began with an invasion. It is not an occupation, because Iraq is being governed by its own people.

www.m-w.com
(bolface emphasis added by me)

Quote:

Main Entry: 1war
Pronunciation: 'wor
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English werre, from Old North French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German werra strife; akin to Old High German werran to confuse
1 a (1) : a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2) : a period of such armed conflict (3) : STATE OF WAR b : the art or science of warfare c (1) obsolete : weapons and equipment for war (2) archaic : soldiers armed and equipped for war
2 a : a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b : a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end <a class war> <a war against disease> c : VARIANCE, ODDS 3
- war·less /-l&s/ adjective

The "war" part was subduing a weakened enemy, who had no air force, with no regards for its civilians: in other words, a cowardly attack.
The al-Qaeda terrorist enemy was weakened by the Coalition's war on them in Afghanistan. Many of these terrorists that fled Afghanistan ended up in Iraq where some of the Coalition continued to make war on them.

That is an interesting film.

And I also agree, that neither Al-Qaeda nor Osama Bin Laden can 'declare war' on the US.

Cycloptichorn

...
http://911lies.2truth.com
...
I've put this link in about five different places and you are the only one that has acknowledged it. I think Americans forget why and what makes them Americans. The people. Not the presidents, not the Democrats, Not the Republicans. The people united have authority over any king.

The Declaration of Independence
(Adopted in Congress 4 July 1776)
The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
...

Cycloptichorn wrote:

That is an interesting film.

And I also agree, that neither Al-Qaeda nor Osama Bin Laden can 'declare war' on the US.

Cycloptichorn

Someone please convince Osama bin Laden and the al-Qaeda terrorists that they cannot declare war on us, and thereby end their war on us.

They aren't at war with us. That's the whole point.
Yes they are; their track record, not merely their words, proves it to be so. That is the whole point.

Them saying 'we are at war' doesn't make it so.
True! Them saying we are at war doen't make it so. It is the combination of them saying that we are at war and the fact that they are actually making war does make it so.

You can't just use the word 'war' to describe whatever the hell you want, Ican.
True! And neither can you use the word war to describe whatever the hell you don't want, Cycloptichorn.

Cycloptichorn

Amigo wrote:

...
http://911lies.2truth.com
...
I've put this link in about five different places and you are the only one that has acknowledged it. I think Americans forget why and what makes them Americans. The people. Not the presidents, not the Democrats, Not the Republicans. The people united have authority over any king.

I think this source a far more reliable source of wisdom than your source (emphasis added by me):

Quote:

The Declaration of Independence
(Adopted in Congress 4 July 1776)
The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
...

Hey Ican, have you watched that film of Amigo's yet?

If an airliner did not make that hole in the Pentagon, what did? And why is your government lying to you? Does it perhaps have something, many things, to hide?

Hey Ican, have you watched that film of Amigo's yet?

If an airliner did not make that hole in the Pentagon, what did? And why is your government lying to you? Does it perhaps have something, many things, to hide?

The US military's definition of war does not cover the legal ramifications of war.

The best definition is:

'a legal state created by a declaration of war and ended by official declaration during which the international rules of war apply; "war was declared in November but actual fighting did not begin until the following spring" '
Wow! According to this definition Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor was not an act of war, but its subsequent attacks following its formal declaration of war were acts of war, except during the times of that war when Japan did not comply with the "international rules of war" by murdering and/or maiming American prisoners of war (e.g., as it did in the Philippines). For that reason among others, I reject your definition.

Osama bin Laden et al declared war on the US in 1996. But Osama bin Laden et al also made war on the US before they declared war on the US.
1. 12/1992 -- murdered 241 Americans at US Marine Corps Headquarters in Beirut;
2. 02/1993 -- murdered 6 Americans at WTC in NYC;
3. 11/1995 -- murdered 5 Americans and 2 other civilians at Saudi National Guard Facility in Riyadh.
[quote]1. Osama Bin Laden "Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places"-1996
http://www.mideastweb.org/osambinladen1.htm

13. Joint Resolution of Congress: Passed September 14, 2001. To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/terroristattack/joint-resolution_9-14.html

14. Public Law 107-243 107th Congress Joint Resolution Oct. 16, 2002 (H.J. Res. 114)
To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq
www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf