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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

 
 
Anonymouse
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2006 08:08 pm
America's coming attack on Iran as an excuse for a failing Iraq.

Quote:
More, Meaner and Faster

by Charles H. Featherstone

Well, it seems we are truly slouching - stumbling drunkenly, actually - toward war with Iran. While I've hemmed and hawed on the subject, it seems at this point that Team Bush will, sometime before the fall (and possibly as soon as the summer), attack Iran. It appears as inevitable as the coming of spring or the raising of the federal debt limit.

The war, if it comes, will not be fought because Iran is trying to create a euro-denominated spot and futures market for oil. Nor will it come because Iran is allegedly pursuing nuclear weapons, though that will be the excuse given at forums in New York, in salons across Europe, and at angry, hectoring press conferences here in Mordor-on-the-Potomac. No, the real reason the United States will wage war on Iran is because the Bush Jong Il régime will decide the only way to save face and withdraw from Iraq with some "dignity" in fact is to bomb Iran.

And the Democrats, worthless "opposition" that they are, have made Iran the centerpiece of a ridiculous strategy of being to the "right" of Republicans on matters of national security (sic), of becoming more hawkish than thou in order to never be on the "wrong" side of another American war ever again.

I see the following "strategy" arising to deal with the clear and present defeat of American arms in Iraq (and by defeat, I mean this - that force was employed in pursuit of an unachievable political goal, that being the "duh-mocratizing" of the Arab Middle East) - Team Bush is going to decide, soon, that sponsoring Shia-majority government in Iraq was a very bad idea, that Iraq's Shia (or anyone else's Shia) should not be allowed anywhere near a ballot box, mainly because they vote for all the wrong people (dour men with turbans, who will never again be allowed on ballots in proper, well-managed duh-mocracies). And the only way out of the mess that has been made is to find some Sunnis willing to play nice with Uncle Sam, with the Kurds and with the well-shaved men and uncovered women of the country, and then back them to hilt. I don't think this decision has been made yet, but it will be made soon. In fact, if (when?) Iraq slips into open sectarian war, this choice will become the only real logical choice for the idiots at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and their equally incompetent counterparts in the various sub-basements of the Pentagon. The goal will be to create and install a "Saddam With a Human Face," a dictator who can rule with a firm hand but without all the monument building, invading his neighbors and threatening certain Zionist entities.

Assuming that régime survives (it may survive as long as Najibullah survived the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, a venture our Iraq sojourn is resembling more and more every day), post-Amreekee Iraq is not going to look much different than pre-Amreekee Iraq. Well, okay, it will be a lot shabbier, and there will be a lot more Iraqi graves, and Iraqis may swear eternal vengeance on the ignorant and cruel people who tore their country and their lives to shreds for the last three years (expect that anyway). But, for those of us sitting elsewhere, it will be a net wash. Maybe the mustache on the dictator will change. But that's about all.

At the same time this is all happening, it will be decided that the reason the whole duh-mocracy in Iraq thing failed was because Iran meddled. It's all Teheran's fault. The bombing of Iran's nuclear sites, its governmental installations, the infiltration of commandos to commit acts of terrorism by blowing stuff up and killing people, will all be part of a general war against the Shia of the Middle East. There may also be joint Israeli-American attacks on Hizbullah in Lebanon. The air campaign against Iran will last anywhere from four days to two weeks, and it will go well (from a Pentagon standpoint, not an Iranian or human one). The US Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps will lose few planes, and no one will really care how many Iranians get killed. (Europe is learning not to care about the welfare or even shared humanity of Muslims - funny how valuable all this nonsense about a handful of dumb cartoons may end up being). After all, about the only things Americans can really do well anymore is bomb stuff from the air. Over and over again, for the last nearly 40 years, we have shown just how well we've mastered this economically worthless skill. So well, in fact, that we are a nation mainly of bombers or wanna-be-bombers, a tiny few perched in actual cockpits while many dream and practice at computers of actually doing the evil deed. (And that makes us different from the Muslims we condemn exactly how? Because we don't blow ourselves up while we do it? Because we've leveraged very expensive high technology to do it?)

I don't expect many US troops to actually cross Iranian borders. In fact, the attack on Iran may be part of a general evacuation of American troops from Iraq, part of the "Iraqization" process and how Team Bush "helps" the Iraqi military cope with the civil war. The goal will not be to unseat the Iranian government. It won't even be to really eradicate Iran's nuclear program. It will simply be to show the world that the US of A is still strong, still mighty, still matters, that no one f**ks with the United States of America, that we can still beat up on people who make us mad. That various American administrations have to try to keep "teaching" that lesson time and again to the world at large pretty well means it isn't really true and that most everyone in the world who isn't an American (along with a few Americans) knows this.

After all, do truly strong and confident people - or communities of people - need to go around beating up on others all the time?

But I'm fairly convinced that, for political reasons, an attack on Iran will be for the Bush people what the invasions of Laos and Cambodia were for the Nixon people - an expansion of the war as political eyewash to cover the defeat and justify a withdrawal. It will still be a murderous, foolish and pointless expansion, but it will be in aid of a general retreat, and not part of any "new phase" of "The Long War." The whole point of the never-ending war on whatever to begin with was to create and sustain permanent Republican rule, and it has more or less blown up in Karl Rove's and George W. Bush's faces. (I'm all for stuff blowing up in George W. Bush's face... Where is our Claus von Stauffenberg when we need him?) I think the rank-and-file GOP recognize a loss when they see it, and are maybe fearing for their political futures. But nationalism and militarism, in this context, are Republican problems at least back to the 1950s and possibly all the way back to the 1890s (and maybe even the 1850s and 1860s). Republicans have never learned to square the circle of their mistrust of government power to set minimum wages and hand out groceries to the poor with their confused mishmash of love of country, love of executive power and love of the military (and whatever war it is waging at the time). In the era of the Cold War and beyond, American nationalism and militarism became a kind of mystical religion for the GOP. However, like any form of idolatry, it offers peace and comfort for the soul but fails utterly to deliver, while the molech at the center of all its demonic practices - the executive presidency - angrily demands more young victims, more burnt offerings, and more treasure to feed its insatiable appetite. As pointless as the invasion and occupation of Iraq has been, I don't expect the GOP faith in their idol to change much, though dreams of world conquest and management will likely be tempered, at least for a while. (That's my hope, anyway.)

At some point, you would think enough Americans - even the dumb ones who, like trained animals, salivate thoughtlessly at the sight of a fluttering flag - will begin to balk at it all. One can only feed a hungry, demanding idol for so long.

But where we go I do not know, for the Democrats also long ago gave themselves over to false gods made of stone, steel, and bad ideas. While most of the base of the party may have grown opposed to war - and the permanent warfare state - in most of its incarnations, senior Democrats have clearly decided that a little war (or a whole lot) is not necessarily a bad thing for either the state or society. Since William Jennings Bryan and Woodrow Wilson (each in their own awful ways) turned the Democrats into the party of paternalistic government, Democrats have had few problems with government action of any kind, domestic or foreign. And the beauty of duh-mocracy is that leaders need never listen to the rank-and-file. Or voters, for that matter.

Democrats have their own reasons for supporting an attack on Iran, most of which have nothing to do with covering a retreat from Iraq (because most senior Democrats don't want a retreat). There is the desire by the party's New York and Washington policy elite that war must be maintained as a policy option, for those Democrats have not (and likely will never) abandon their Social Democratic dreams of world management and world governance. But the party's brightest lights (sic) also want to make sure they are never on the wrong side of an American war ever again, never burning flags or draft cards, never making impassioned speeches against intervention, never tossing medals and ribbons into bonfires. I always found it interesting that most of the anti-Iraq invasion talking heads on teevee and radio couched their opposition to the war in terms of Bush Jong Il not being serious about real threats - Iran, North Korea, Pakistan, even Saudi Arabia. They weren't so much against the war; they were merely opposed to Bush's war.

Iran is also, for good, secular, progressive Democrats, the reddest red state in the world, a theocracy ruled by ignorant, angry men who hate and repress women, young people, ethnic minorities, homosexuals and Jews - all in the name of God. They may not be able to liberate backwards-looking Texas, or Utah, or Alabama from the tight clutches of pastors, bishops and televangelists (at least not yet), but they can bomb the bejeezus out of Qom, Teheran and Isfahan, and they can impose régime change (for unlike the Bush people, they want it) on far-away places in need of good, enlightened, secular, professional and modern management.

Lastly, some Democrats may simply hold a grudge against Iran, because it was its mad mullahs who unseated Jimmy Carter and made possible the long reign of the GOP. (Think about it: Ayatollah Khomeini may have saved us from an eventual Ted Kennedy presidency, so consider that next time you go to curse Iran.) And they may be seeking to settle the score. Carter himself may have a different opinion on the matter, but like yours and mine, his doesn't matter to the current Democrat leadership either.

So the Democratic leadership will cheer the war on, all the while criticizing Bush Jong Il's efforts as "half-hearted" and harping incessantly that it can be better waged - more, meaner, faster. What appeal that will have in a country increasingly weary of war, intervention and the costs in blood, security and treasure is beyond me. Eventually, if the likes of Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama keep it up, it could make the phrase "Democrat War" real currency again in parts of the country where it matters. It may even be possible - though such an outcome is almost certainly too much to hope for - that the long-mentioned GOP of the non-interventionists (at home and abroad) may be reborn. I've always believed that party was more myth than reality, but if it ever comes to pass, I might even support it.

I don't expect the Iranians to sit still during an attack. Teheran and its allies have pretty well mastered the art of asymmetrical warfare, the roadside bomb and suicide attack, and I have no doubt they will do so again, especially against the dispersed and vulnerable US forces currently occupying Iraq. Depending on how extensive the Teheran-allied terror networks are, how well organized they are, that war could quickly come home in a way that could make us all nostalgic for September 11, 2001. Claude Mandil, the head of the Paris-based International Energy Agency, may say the world has enough crude oil on hand to cope with any disruption of Iran's 2.5 million barrels-per-day of exports, but I don't find that much comfort, especially since the oil terminals and refineries of the Arab Gulf are just so many shiny, easily combustible targets within range of Iranian conventional and unconventional weapons. A couple of successful attacks on the Gulf's oil facilities and the resulting rise in crude oil prices could sink the world economy. Hizbullah and Hamas are the only militaries in the Arab world that have gone toe-to-toe with the Israeli Defense Forces and come out ahead, so they're not that afraid of conventional armies. The Sunni and Shia of Iraq have learned a similar lesson over the last three years. There are certain advantages to fearing God more than either death or the United States of America.

And what if Teheran or those sympathetic to its cause manage to attack the US in response? Lost liberties would no longer be a mere phantom menacing the nation - they would truly be gone, swept up with Arabs, Iranians, Muslims, peace activists and maybe even dissident Internet columnists and other disloyal types. Or at least the government would try. Team Bush has shown - consistently and repeatedly - that it simply cannot make government really work. Even given as much taxed and borrowed money the Bush Jong Il régime spends, we ought to be thankful for that incompetence, because Democrats, at least the vocal ones wanting to become world controllers again, are going to argue, hector and demand more, meaner, faster. And Democrats, unfortunately, have a track record. They often times really can make government work better. None of us should want that. Ever.

If war with Iran comes - and I hope it is not the crazed, looming inevitability it appears to be right now - neither peace nor freedom will have many high-placed friends in this country. But at least maybe enough Americans will finally realize the truth - that we the people are not the government, that we have almost no say over anything it does, and that those who make its laws, craft its rules and carry them out care nary a whit for our welfare, security and well-being.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/featherstone/featherstone53.html
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2006 08:36 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'd accept dumb over "dangerous" any day of the week.

Sorry! A choice between dumb and dangerous is not available. Dumb is dangerous!

We Americans probably face a sizeable risk of being murdered by Terrorist Malignancy, if we decide to limit our defense of ourselves against Terrorist Malignancy only at home here in America. We must find a way to reduce the risk of only home defense.

We cannot draft a big enough army to protect ourselves.

Ahh! How about establishing a total surveilance system: satellite, x-ray and visible light, video intelligence of all movements in America; and monitoring all communications (wire communications, wireless communications; hardcopy communications, and aural communications).

Damn! We don't know how to do all that yet. Besides its been alleged that more than a third of the populace prefers its total privacy to its life.

I'll keep looking for a solution.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2006 08:54 pm
The fear you have is not rational. Your ideas about terrorism around the world is also not rational. Your'e not rational. There are more people killed by auto accidents in this country than any teorrorist. You need to be put into a padded room to keep you safe - from the general public Cool Cool .
0 Replies
 
Anonymouse
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2006 09:22 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
The fear you have is not rational. Your ideas about terrorism around the world is also not rational. Your'e not rational. There are more people killed by auto accidents in this country than any teorrorist. You need to be put into a padded room to keep you safe - from the general public Cool Cool .


That is the way politics works though. It preys on the irrational fears, subconscious or otherwise, of gullible souls.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2006 09:41 pm
Too disturbing to repost here:

http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/introduction/

A comprehensive Abu Ghraib roundup by Salon, with details. Truly NSFW

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2006 10:06 pm
Cyclo, All the laws that Bush ignored and superceded by his commands to the different branches of our government should be enough evidence to send any tyrant-president-criminal to prison. What's wrong with our country that we allow this to continue in our name? When will the American People say "enough!"
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 06:38 am
I would really be very surprised if we actually go to war with Iran. For some reason I just don't see it happening, but I could be wrong.

Ican, you should be happy today. The US military killed women and children in order to net one suspected insurgent.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060315/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_violence

Quote:
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:08 am
That's precisely ican's "get rid of the malignancy plan." He's a sick in the head human.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:09 am
As somebody mentioned on another thread, wars are meant to kill and destroy. What does it really win?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:59 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
The fear you have is not rational. Your ideas about terrorism around the world is also not rational. Your'e not rational. There are more people killed by auto accidents in this country than any teorrorist. You need to be put into a padded room to keep you safe - from the general public Cool Cool .

That's standard LIEbral doctrine! They claim to believe that Terrorist Malignancy is a mere police problem.

So you too apparently believe Terrorist Malignancy is a police problem, and its stated goals are delusional and will have no actual effect:
Quote:

...
Phase 4, "the downfall." By 2013, al Qaeda will control the Persian Gulf, and all its oil, as well as most of the Middle East. This will enable al Qaeda to cripple the American economy, and American military power.

Phase 5."The Caliphate." By 2016, the Caliphate (i.e., one government for all Moslem nations) will be established. At this point, nearly all Western cultural influences will be eliminated from Islamic nations. The Caliphate will organize a mighty army for the next phase.

Phase 6, "world conquest." By 2022, the rest of the world will be conquered by the righteous and unstoppable armies of Islam. This is the phase that Osama bin Laden has been talking about for years.

Phase 7, "final victory." By 2025, all the world's inhabitants will be forced to either convert to Islam, or submit to Islamic rule.



According to Britannica, the population of America in 2005 was 296,748,000. In 2004, the American death rate was 8,100 per million. In 2003, 363 Americans per million were killed in "accidents or their adverse effects," 152 of which were in motor vehicle accidents. So if that 152 rate were also true for 2005, then 45,106 Americans died last year from motor-vehicle accidents.

What difference would it make to you, if an additional 50,000 Americans, plus or minus 5,000 or so, were murdered by Terrorist Malignancy each year? It appears from your post that it would make no difference to you -- unless, of course you and/or some or all of those you love were among the victims.

But then, at the same time you appear apalled that exterminating Terrorist Malignancy in order to save thousands of civilian lives will cost any civilian lives whatsoever.

For your own sake and the sake of your fellow Americans, sign yourself in to a psychiatric hospital today!
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 04:16 pm
CI, you are right. Criminal.

The responsibility for this massive crime goes right to the top.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 04:36 pm
revel wrote:

...
Ican, you should be happy today. The US military killed women and children in order to net one suspected insurgent.
...


We Americans probably face a sizeable risk of being murdered by Terrorist Malignancy, if we decide to limit our defense of ourselves against Terrorist Malignancy to only here at home in America. If we are nevertheless determined to do that, we must find a way to reduce the risk of only home defense.

We cannot draft a big enough army capable of protecting ourselves.

We cannot establish a total surveilance system capable of protecting ourselves.

Demagoguery, revel, isn't going to solve the Terrorist Malignancy problem either!

Let's try bargaining with Terrorist Malignancy (TM). Let's offer TM our voluntary departure -- both civil and military -- from all other countries in the world in exchange for leaving us alone until say, 2084. But if TM agrees, how can we be sure TM will keep it's side of the bargain? Even if TM does keep its side of the bargain, the effect on the quality of our life will be to cut it back drastically, since the quality of our life is dependent on the quality of life throughout the world.

I'll keep looking for a solution.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 05:30 pm
ican, That's not just "liberal" doctrine. That used to be the American doctinre before Bush.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 05:52 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican, That's not just "liberal" doctrine. That used to be the American doctinre before Bush.

Is this the doctrine which you claim "used to be the American doctinre before Bush"?
Quote:
Terrorist Malignancy is a mere police problem.

I thought that was merely Clinton's and Carter's doctrine. We knew before and after Carter, and before and after Clinton that doctrine is a dumb, ineffective, false doctrine. It certainly isn't an American doctrine; but it certainly is a LIEbral doctrine.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 05:55 pm
If that isn't the American Doctrine, it sure is funny to see Bush's rating falling into the low thirties. LOL
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 05:56 pm
As the saying goes, like father like son. The Bush legacy is a complete failure.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 07:28 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
If that isn't the American Doctrine, it sure is funny to see Bush's rating falling into the low thirties. LOL

Laughing Please notice that the LIEbral opinion-news media rarely reports the Democrat approval rating. It's below Bush's.

My rating of Bush is low too, and my rating of Democrats is lower than Bush's too.

All of my acquaintenances, left and right, agree that the doctrine that the Terrorist Malignancy problem is a mere police problem is a dumb, ineffective, false doctrine.

Both the left and right among my acquaintenances think that the Terrorist Malignancy problem is not being dealt with effectively by the Bush administration. The left think the better strategy for us is to leave and wait until after the Iraqis have their civil war before we re-enter and try to sort things out. The right thinks the better strategy is to stay and greatly increase pressure on the Iraqis to form their newly elected government.

You already know the strategy that I advocate.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 07:42 pm
The democrats can do no harm; they have only supported the wrong decisions made by the republicans. Democrats are no longer a viable policital party in the US. There is no leadership nor any consistent message that is unique to "liberalism."

Unfortunately for Americans, that leaves us with no real good choices in future elections.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 07:55 pm
ican, You'are fallinga apart at the seams. You ask a question, then answer it yourself. From your post:

That's standard LIEbral doctrine! They claim to believe that Terrorist Malignancy is a mere police problem.

So you too apparently believe Terrorist Malignancy is a police problem, and its stated goals are delusional and will have no actual effect:


Get a grip, fella. You'll be thrown into a padded room pretty soon! Bushco is going to declare you insane and a terrorist threat.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 08:08 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
The democrats can do no harm; they have only supported the wrong decisions made by the republicans.
Democrats have done a great deal of harm encouraging the Terrorist Malignancy to think that we will give up before they do. Also they have severely handicapped the Bush administration's efforts to win the war. They undermine the administration by opposing that which it must do to win the war against the Terrorist Malignancy.

Democrats are no longer a viable policital party in the US. There is no leadership nor any consistent message that is unique to "liberalism."
What message do you think would be consistent with liberalism?

Unfortunately for Americans, that leaves us with no real good choices in future elections.
I want to secure liberty for as many innocent human beings on the face of this earth as is possible. Do you think that liberal or conservative?
0 Replies
 
 

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