THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

xingu wrote:

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ican
All I'm asking for is an honest investigation. You won't get that with the Republicans in control of Congress.

I didn't say anything about impeachment.

Ah, so Republicans are dishonest and Democrats are honest!

How do you tell?

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With the Republicans in power you will not get an investigation into the lies and misinformation the Bush administration put out. The Republicans will try to protect Bush. We need a Democrat version of Ken Starr.

The Cost Of Conservatism In Iraq
Robert L. Borosage
September 25, 2006
Robert L. Borosage is co-director of the Campaign For America's Future.

The intelligence agencies have now officially acknowledged the inescapable reality: The failed occupation in Iraq has stoked the global terrorist threat, generating recruits for increasing acts of terror across the globe. That conclusion is in the latest classified National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq, portions of which were leaked to the media this past weekend.

Likewise, the premiere of Robert Greenwald's stunning documentary, "Iraq for Sale," along with the publication of books ripping the cover off the Iraq occupation?-Thomas Ricks' Fiasco, T. Christian Miller's Blood Money, and Rajiv Chandrasekaran's Imperial Life in the Emerald City ?-expose the sordid reality behind the failure in Iraq?-the mélange of conservative ideological idiocy, incompetence, cronyism and corruption that is the hallmark of this administration. In the midst of this is the abject failure of a supine conservative Congress to enforce any form of accountability on the administration, as so-called moderate Republicans marched in lockstep with their conservative leaders to deep-six every effort to investigate the pervasive corruption and profiteering.

If progressives had an echo chamber to match conservatives, the basic facts would create a drumbeat?-far beyond partisanship?-for cleaning out the stables in Washington. The ideologues of the administration and their facilitators in Congress have not simply wasted billions of dollars and squandered the sacrifice of thousands of lives. They have undermined our security, while generating recruits for terror across the globe.

The administration fiasco in Iraq mirrors its catastrophic failures in the wake of Katrina. Once more, the public mission?-in this case reconstruction and nation building?-was scorned. Rumsfeld and his neocons made it clear?-the U.S. military fights war, it doesn't do school patrols.

The result was an utter, incomprehensible failure to plan. Tommy Franks, the general in charge of the Iraq invasion, didn't think the aftermath was his responsibility. He assumed the troops would be out in 30 days. General Garner, the first head of the reconstruction, assumed that his task would be done in two months. American soldiers?-with neither training nor guidance?-stood idly by as Iraqis looted ministries, destroying essential records and making off with everything from guns to historic treasures to the electrical wiring.

Once the president decided that since there were no weapons of mass destruction to be found, we were really in Iraq to create democracy, ideology once more outlawed common sense. Instead of sending in experts on reconstruction, the administration consciously recruited conservative ideologues, those who avidly embraced the new cause. Interns and job applicants to the Heritage Foundation provided a core list of young zealots, who would come to Iraq for three months to get their resumes stamped. A 27-year-old daughter of neocon Michael Ledeen was put in charge of the Iraqi budget. A 28-year-old was put in charge of reopening the stock exchange. They lived in the Green Zone?-Chandrasekaran's "Emerald City"?-ignorant of the language, the culture, the day-to-day reality of the country they ruled.

Not surprisingly, conservative ideology drove the reconstruction fiasco. Seeking to display his authority, Viceroy Paul Bremer ignored expert advice and disbanded the Iraqi army and purged the Iraqi ministries of experienced leadership. That provided the Sunni insurgency with hundreds of thousands of experienced and angry recruits, with guns. He pushed for privatization of Iraqi industries, for the elimination of fuel and food supports in a country with 50 percent unemployment. Private investment, not public enterprise, would rebuild Iraq.

The reconstruction?-and the war?-was privatized to an unprecedented degree. The second largest army in Iraq after the Americans was made up of private contractors. Contractors did everything from guarding the bases to providing the food. Most of the large contracts were no-bid, sole source, cost-plus agreements. Not surprisingly, cronyism ran rampant. Wired corporations like Halliburton lapped up contracts worth billions. Republican operatives invented companies and used their political connections to land multimillion-dollar contracts.

In this cesspool, there was no accountability. The Pentagon didn't even have a representative from the Inspector General's office on the ground for the first two-and-a-half years. The Coalition Provisional Authority, the U.S. authority in Iraq, had neither the staff nor the expertise to stem the corruption. The conservative majority in Congress not only repeatedly blocked efforts to create a bipartisan investigative committee?-along the lines of the Truman Committee that policed contracts in World War II?-it refused to hold hearings exposing the scope of the fraud and abuse to the public eye.

The harsh result was a catastrophic conservative fiasco. As Robert Greenwald's stunning documentary shows, not only were billions lost, lives of patriotic workers were callously squandered. The profiteers made out like bandits. The politicians were succored with campaign contributions and lobbying junkets. But in Iraq, failure fueled civil war. And across the world, the occupation fueled fury, and provided al-Qaida with a new generation of recruits.

The incompetence, cronyism and corruption that led to this fiasco are hallmarks of modern-day conservatism. Accountability, expertise, planning, good management are not partisan issues. But the administration, blinded by its own ideological certitude, scorned even common sense. And the lapdog conservative majority in Congress chose partisanship over patriotism, protecting the administration rather than the nation's security.

The Greenwald film will be shown in thousands of house parties across the country. (To join a house party or to host one, go to www.bravenewfilms.org.) Fiasco, Blood Money and Emerald City deserve a wide audience. The Campaign for America's Future has published a report detailing the fiasco and detailing how individual legislators voted on efforts to establish some accountability.

With the press already into reporting on the elections as a horse race, the vast majority of voters are likely to have no clue about the depths of the failure this fall. But if Democrats can win back the House, the resulting hearings will be explosive?-as patriotic American soldiers and workers are able finally to tell their story. No wonder the White House and its conservative allies are desperate to keep the majority that is their only hope for keeping the lid on the truth.

And of course everything Bush said about why we should invade Iraq was true, right?

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We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them.
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Tonight we are a country awakened to danger. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them.
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Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;
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The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq.

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Members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq.
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It is said that prior to the attacks of September the 11th, our government failed to connect the dots of the conspiracy. We now know that two of the hijackers in the United States placed telephone calls to al Qaeda operatives overseas. But we did not know about their plans until it was too late. So to prevent another attack -- based on authority given to me by the Constitution and by statute -- I have authorized a terrorist surveillance program to aggressively pursue the international communications of suspected al Qaeda operatives and affiliates to and from America. Previous Presidents have used the same constitutional authority I have, and federal courts have approved the use of that authority. Appropriate members of Congress have been kept informed. The terrorist surveillance program has helped prevent terrorist attacks. It remains essential to the security of America. If there are people inside our country who are talking with al Qaeda, we want to know about it, because we will not sit back and wait to be hit again.
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Based on the hysterical pseudology produced by the Democrats in their speeches and interviews since November 2000, and subsequently refuted by reality

Here's a summary of all the crap that's happening in Iraq and why we need a special prosecutor to investigate this administration.
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Quote:

Based on the hysterical pseudology produced by the Democrats in their speeches and interviews since November 2000, and subsequently refuted by reality, Democrats are crazy.

Three retired senior military officers yesterday accused Mr Rumsfeld of bungling the war on Iraq, and said the Pentagon was "incompetent strategically, operationally and tactically". Major General Paul Eaton, a retired officer who was in charge of training Iraq troops, said: "Mr Rumsfeld and his immediate team must be replaced or we will see two more years of extraordinarily bad decision-making."

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Except, the invasion of Iraq hasn't stopped the growth of AQ. Not at all. In fact, if anything, it has added to their numbers and provided them with legitimacy that they didn't have before.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

Cycloptichorn

I agree with this assessment. I disagree that the situation would be better had we not invaded Iraq.
I think that to improve the situation in Iraq, Bush must order the State Department to determine how to secure a democracy in a nut house. I guess the execution of that order will require Congress's concurrence. Regardless, the problem must be solved.

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Except, the invasion of Iraq hasn't stopped the growth of AQ. Not at all. In fact, if anything, it has added to their numbers and provided them with legitimacy that they didn't have before.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

Cycloptichorn

I agree with this assessment. I disagree that the situation would be better had we not invaded Iraq.
I think that to improve the situation in Iraq, Bush must order the State Department to determine how to secure a democracy in a nut house. I guess the execution of that order will require Congress's concurrence. Regardless, the problem must be solved.

What is it with you guys? It just does not matter what level of knowledge and expertise, or what level of consensus of such voices arises, your fealty to this incompetent president/administration trumps all else. An NIE report reveals the intelligence community's conclusion that attacking Iraq has made the situation worse, but your faith in Bush's decision (not to mention his competency and his honesty) is unchanged. That's delusional. You've exchanged your miind and your balls for the comfort of faith in authority. It's not a pretty sight.

One imagines a herd of sheep, running straight ahead, resolutely, eye-brows furrowed, self-righteous and angrily chanting in unison, "We Are All Independent-minded Patriots ...We Are All Independent-minded Patriots"

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Except, the invasion of Iraq hasn't stopped the growth of AQ. Not at all. In fact, if anything, it has added to their numbers and provided them with legitimacy that they didn't have before.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

Cycloptichorn

I agree with this assessment. I disagree that the situation would be better had we not invaded Iraq.
I think that to improve the situation in Iraq, Bush must order the State Department to determine how to secure a democracy in a nut house. I guess the execution of that order will require Congress's concurrence. Regardless, the problem must be solved.

What is it with you guys? It just does not matter what level of knowledge and expertise, or what level of consensus of such voices arises, your fealty to this incompetent president/administration trumps all else. An NIE report reveals the intelligence community's conclusion that attacking Iraq has made the situation worse, but your faith in Bush's decision (not to mention his competency and his honesty) is unchanged. That's delusional. You've exchanged your miind and your balls for the comfort of faith in authority. It's not a pretty sight.

One imagines a herd of sheep, running straight ahead, resolutely, eye-brows furrowed, self-righteous and angrily chanting in unison, "We Are All Independent-minded Patriots ...We Are All Independent-minded Patriots"

blatham wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Except, the invasion of Iraq hasn't stopped the growth of AQ. Not at all. In fact, if anything, it has added to their numbers and provided them with legitimacy that they didn't have before.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

Cycloptichorn

I agree with this assessment. I disagree that the situation would be better had we not invaded Iraq.
I think that to improve the situation in Iraq, Bush must order the State Department to determine how to secure a democracy in a nut house. I guess the execution of that order will require Congress's concurrence. Regardless, the problem must be solved.

What is it with you guys? It just does not matter what level of knowledge and expertise, or what level of consensus of such voices arises, your fealty to this incompetent president/administration trumps all else. An NIE report reveals the intelligence community's conclusion that attacking Iraq has made the situation worse, but your faith in Bush's decision (not to mention his competency and his honesty) is unchanged. That's delusional. You've exchanged your miind and your balls for the comfort of faith in authority. It's not a pretty sight.

One imagines a herd of sheep, running straight ahead, resolutely, eye-brows furrowed, self-righteous and angrily chanting in unison, "We Are All Independent-minded Patriots ...We Are All Independent-minded Patriots"

So we are all agreeing then the National Intelligence Estimate is pretty much the top dog? That the NIE is an honest portrayal of current sutuations and that we should trust it's estimates?

McGentrix wrote:

blatham wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Except, the invasion of Iraq hasn't stopped the growth of AQ. Not at all. In fact, if anything, it has added to their numbers and provided them with legitimacy that they didn't have before.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

Cycloptichorn

I agree with this assessment. I disagree that the situation would be better had we not invaded Iraq.
I think that to improve the situation in Iraq, Bush must order the State Department to determine how to secure a democracy in a nut house. I guess the execution of that order will require Congress's concurrence. Regardless, the problem must be solved.

What is it with you guys? It just does not matter what level of knowledge and expertise, or what level of consensus of such voices arises, your fealty to this incompetent president/administration trumps all else. An NIE report reveals the intelligence community's conclusion that attacking Iraq has made the situation worse, but your faith in Bush's decision (not to mention his competency and his honesty) is unchanged. That's delusional. You've exchanged your miind and your balls for the comfort of faith in authority. It's not a pretty sight.

One imagines a herd of sheep, running straight ahead, resolutely, eye-brows furrowed, self-righteous and angrily chanting in unison, "We Are All Independent-minded Patriots ...We Are All Independent-minded Patriots"

So we are all agreeing then the National Intelligence Estimate is pretty much the top dog? That the NIE is an honest portrayal of current sutuations and that we should trust it's estimates?

Their track record sure beats the neoconservative on the matter.

blatham wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Except, the invasion of Iraq hasn't stopped the growth of AQ. Not at all. In fact, if anything, it has added to their numbers and provided them with legitimacy that they didn't have before.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

Cycloptichorn

I agree with this assessment. I disagree that the situation would be better had we not invaded Iraq.
I think that to improve the situation in Iraq, Bush must order the State Department to determine how to secure a democracy in a nut house. I guess the execution of that order will require Congress's concurrence. Regardless, the problem must be solved.

What is it with you guys? It just does not matter what level of knowledge and expertise, or what level of consensus of such voices arises, your fealty to this incompetent president/administration trumps all else. An NIE report reveals the intelligence community's conclusion that attacking Iraq has made the situation worse, but your faith in Bush's decision (not to mention his competency and his honesty) is unchanged. That's delusional. You've exchanged your miind and your balls for the comfort of faith in authority. It's not a pretty sight.

One imagines a herd of sheep, running straight ahead, resolutely, eye-brows furrowed, self-righteous and angrily chanting in unison, "We Are All Independent-minded Patriots ...We Are All Independent-minded Patriots"

So we are all agreeing then the National Intelligence Estimate is pretty much the top dog? That the NIE is an honest portrayal of current sutuations and that we should trust it's estimates?

McGentrix wrote:

blatham wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Except, the invasion of Iraq hasn't stopped the growth of AQ. Not at all. In fact, if anything, it has added to their numbers and provided them with legitimacy that they didn't have before.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

Cycloptichorn

I agree with this assessment. I disagree that the situation would be better had we not invaded Iraq.
I think that to improve the situation in Iraq, Bush must order the State Department to determine how to secure a democracy in a nut house. I guess the execution of that order will require Congress's concurrence. Regardless, the problem must be solved.

What is it with you guys? It just does not matter what level of knowledge and expertise, or what level of consensus of such voices arises, your fealty to this incompetent president/administration trumps all else. An NIE report reveals the intelligence community's conclusion that attacking Iraq has made the situation worse, but your faith in Bush's decision (not to mention his competency and his honesty) is unchanged. That's delusional. You've exchanged your miind and your balls for the comfort of faith in authority. It's not a pretty sight.

One imagines a herd of sheep, running straight ahead, resolutely, eye-brows furrowed, self-righteous and angrily chanting in unison, "We Are All Independent-minded Patriots ...We Are All Independent-minded Patriots"

So we are all agreeing then the National Intelligence Estimate is pretty much the top dog? That the NIE is an honest portrayal of current sutuations and that we should trust it's estimates?

You got it. If it's not than what is?