0
   

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

 
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 03:58 am
George Bush-war president; losing in Iraq and losing in Afghanistan.

Quote:
West Won't Win Afghan War

By Eric Margolis

09/17/06 "Toronto Sun" -- -- As Canadian, American and British soldiers continue to die in Afghanistan, it is time the truth be told about this ugly little war.

Much of what we've so far been told by our governments and media has been untrue, wishful thinking, or crass jingoism.

The respected European think tank, Senlis Council, which focuses on Afghanistan, just reported the Taliban is "taking back Afghanistan" and now controls that nation's southern half. According to Senlis, southern Afghanistan is suffering "a humanitarian crisis of starvation and poverty.

"U.S. policies in Afghanistan have re-created the safe haven for terrorism that the 2001 invasion aimed to destroy," Senlis found.


Claims that withdrawing Western garrisons from Afghanistan or Iraq will leave a void certain to be filled by extremists are nonsense. Half of Afghanistan and a third of Iraq are already largely controlled by anti-Western resistance forces.

Were it not for omnipotent U.S. airpower, American and NATO forces would be quickly driven from the area.

Last week, Canadian and British commanders boasted they were about to annihilate Taliban forces "surrounded" around Panjwai and Zahri. They crowed about already killing an "estimated 500 Taliban."

After a storm of bombing and shelling, British and Canadian commanders admitted "we were surprised the enemy had fled." Surprised?

"Good Morning, Afghanistan!" Doesn't anyone remember the Vietnam War's fruitless search-and-destroy missions and inflated body counts? Don't NATO commanders know their every move is telegraphed in advance to Taliban forces?

Did Canadian officers making such fanciful claims really believe the Taliban's veteran guerillas would be stupid enough to sit still and be destroyed by U.S. air power?

U.S., British and Canadian politicians say they are surprised by intensifying Taliban resistance. They have only their own ignorance to blame.

Attacking Pashtuns, renowned for xenophobia, warlike spirits, and love of independence, is a fool's mission. Pashtuns are Afghanistan's ethnic majority; long-term national stability is impossible without their co-operation.

What the West calls "Taliban" is actually a growing coalition of veteran Taliban fighters led by Mullah Dadullah, other clans of Pashtun tribal warriors, and nationalist resistance forces under Jalalladin Hakkani and former prime minister Gulbadin Hekmatyar. Many are former mujahadeen once hailed as "freedom fighters" by the West, and branded "terrorists" by the Soviets.

The UN's anti-narcotic agency reports narco-state Afghanistan now supplies 92% of the world's heroin. Production surged 20% last year alone. Who is responsible? The U.S. and NATO. Washington, Ottawa and London can't keep pretending this is someone else's problem. Drug money fuels the Afghan economy and keeps local warlords loyal to the U.S.-installed Kabul regime.

Russian influenceWestern troops are not fighting "terrorism" in Afghanistan, as Prime Minister Stephen Harper claims. They are fighting the Afghan people. Every new civilian killed, and every village bombed, breeds new enemies for the West.

© 2006 The Toronto Sun
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 04:45 am
Quote:
Avoiding attacking suspected terrorist mastermind
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 11:32 am
Parados, here's an update of Iraq's violent non-combatant deaths to August 31, 2006! Until and unless IBC subsequently shows otherwise, I'll go with your "max" numbers for January thru April. I've reduced your "max" for May from 1814 by 397 to 1417, in order to make my subsequent subtotals consistent with IBC subtotals. I replaced your June morgue estimate with IBC's June morgue total and included it in the IBC June total. I added your 900 morgue total estimate for July to the IBC July total. I added my 800 morgue total estimate for August to the IBC August total .

January 06 .. = 1267; Total since January 1st 03 = 1267 + 36,859 = 38126;
Feb 06 ........ = 1287; Total since January 1st 03 = 1287 + 38126 = 39413;
March 06 ..... = 1538; Total since January 1st 03 = 1538 + 39413 = 40951;
April 06 ....... = 1287; Total since January 1st 03 = 1287 + 40951 = 42238;
May 06 ........ = 1417; Total since January 1st 03 = 1417 + 42238 = 43655;

June 06 ....... = 2089; Total since January 1st 03 = 2089 + 43655 = 45744;
July 06 ........ = 1166; Total since January 1st 03 = 1166 + 45744 = 46910;
................................ 46910 + 900 = 47810;
August 06 ... = 1125; Total since January 1st 03 = 1125 + 46910 = 48035;
................................ 48035 + 900 + 800 = 49735.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 11:44 am
xingu wrote:
George Bush-war president; losing in Iraq and losing in Afghanistan.

Quote:
West Won’t Win Afghan War

By Eric Margolis

09/17/06 "Toronto Sun" -- -- As Canadian, American and British soldiers continue to die in Afghanistan, it is time the truth be told about this ugly little war.
...


Despite the vertible proliferation of leflib pseudological propaganda,The West will succeed in helping Afghans win the Afghan war.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 12:06 pm
xingu wrote:
Quote:
Avoiding attacking suspected terrorist mastermind
Abu Musab Zarqawi blamed for more than 700 killings in Iraq
By Jim Miklaszewski
Pentagon correspondent
NBC News

Updated: 7:14 p.m. ET March 2, 2004
With Tuesday's attacks, Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian militant with ties to al-Qaida, is now blamed for more than 700 terrorist killings in Iraq.

But NBC News has learned that long before the war the Bush administration had several chances to wipe out his terrorist operation and perhaps kill Zarqawi himself -- but never pulled the trigger.
...

We could not kill Zarqaw in Iraq until after we invaded Iraq March 20, 2003. We could not invade Iraq without Congress first declaring war against Iraq, as it did October 16, 2002, and
Zarqawi is dead now.

IT = Islama Totalitarians (e.g., al-Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Taliban, Baathists, et al).

IT are waging war against non-combatants. Protectors of non-combatants are waging war against IT to end IT's war against non-combatants.

IT are waging war against Israeli, Iraqi and Afghan non-combatants. Israeli, Iraqi, and Afghan protectors of non-combatants are waging war against IT to end IT's war against Israeli, Iraqi, and Afghan non-combatants.

IT are waging war against American non-combatants. American protectors of Israeli, Iraqi, Afghan, and American non-combatants are waging war against IT to end IT's war against Israeli, Iraqi, Afghan, and American non-combatants.

IT's evil is not negotiable and IT must be exterminated.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 03:14 pm
ican wrote:
We could not kill Zarqaw in Iraq until after we invaded Iraq March 20, 2003.

Why?

Didn't you conservatives criticize Clinton for not killing Osama bin Laden?

Why was Bush protecting Zarqawi?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 03:17 pm
ican711nm wrote:
xingu wrote:
George Bush-war president; losing in Iraq and losing in Afghanistan.

Quote:
West Won’t Win Afghan War

By Eric Margolis

09/17/06 "Toronto Sun" -- -- As Canadian, American and British soldiers continue to die in Afghanistan, it is time the truth be told about this ugly little war.
...


Despite the vertible proliferation of leflib pseudological propaganda,The West will succeed in helping Afghans win the Afghan war.


I got news for you ican, they're not doing it now. They're losing.

What I presented is not "pseudological propaganda". If you can't accept reality then your no better than Bush.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 03:28 pm
xingu wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
xingu wrote:
George Bush-war president; losing in Iraq and losing in Afghanistan.

Quote:
West Won’t Win Afghan War

By Eric Margolis

09/17/06 "Toronto Sun" -- -- As Canadian, American and British soldiers continue to die in Afghanistan, it is time the truth be told about this ugly little war.
...


Despite the vertible proliferation of leflib pseudological propaganda,The West will succeed in helping Afghans win the Afghan war.


I got news for you ican, they're not doing it now. They're losing.

What I presented is not "pseudological propaganda". If you can't accept reality then your no better than Bush.


And if you are looking at events now and using that to foretell the future of the war,you are also mistaken.

As an example,from 1939 to early 1942 the allies lost every battle of WW2.
Now,do you remember who won that war?
Yet you would have said that the allies wouldnt win,judging by those first years,wouldnt you.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 05:48 pm
IT have yesterday and today declared their intention to murder the Pope and destroy Western Civilization.

IT = Islama Totalitarians (e.g., al-Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Taliban, Baathists, et al).

Quote:

http://www.watchtower.org/bible/index.htm

Exodus 20:1-26

1 And God proceeded to speak all these words, saying:
...
13. You must not murder.


Exodus 21:1-36

1. And these are the judicial decisions that you are to set before them:
...
12. One who strikes a man so that he actually dies is to be put to death without fail.
...
16. And one who kidnaps a man and who actually sells him or in whose hand he has been found is to be put to death without fail.

17. And one who calls down evil upon his father and his mother is to be put to death without fail.
...


Quote:

http://www.watchtower.org/bible/index.htm

Revelation 13:1-18


1 And it stood still upon the sand of the sea.

And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. 2 Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion's mouth. And the dragon gave to [the beast] its power and its throne and great authority.

3 And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 4 And they worshiped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshiped the wild beast with the words: "Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?" 5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it. 6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name and his residence, even those residing in heaven. 7 And there was granted it to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8 And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it; the name of not one of them stands written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered, from the founding of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 If anyone [is meant] for captivity, he goes away into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. Here is where it means the endurance and faith of the holy ones.

11 And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed. 13 And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.

14 And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 15 And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.

16 And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, 17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. 18 Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man's number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
666! Hmmmm ...
"Hej. 8 (A.D. 630)--The triumphant entry of Muhammad into Mecca."
Did the A.D. calendar leave out 36 years?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/quran/qsearch.pl?surah=2

2. The Cow (Al-Baqarah)
002.191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.


http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/quran/qsearch.pl?surah=4

4. Women (An-Nisáa)
004.089 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

4. Women (An-Nisáa)
004.091 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.


http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/quran/qsearch.pl?surah=9

9. Repentance (Al-Tauba)
009.005 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


002.191 ... "slay them wherever ye find them"
004.089 ... "kill them wherever ye find them"
004.091 ... "kill them wherever ye find them"
009.005 ... "slay the idolaters wherever ye find them"
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 06:18 pm
xingu wrote:
ican wrote:
We could not kill Zarqaw in Iraq until after we invaded Iraq March 20, 2003.

Why?

Didn't you conservatives criticize Clinton for not killing Osama bin Laden?

Why was Bush protecting Zarqawi?


Clinton was not criticized for not invading where OBL was thought to be and killing OBL. Clinton was criticized for three times turning down offers by other governments to hand over OBL.

Why was Clinton protecting bin Laden? Rolling Eyes

Answer to both questions: Neither Bush or Clinton were protecting OBL. It was their faulty judgment that protected OBL.

I criticize both Clinton and Bush for not invading where OBL was thought to be and killing OBL.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 06:39 pm
ican711nm wrote:

IRAQI VIOLENT NON-COMBATANT DEATHS
January 06 .. = 1267;
Feb 06 ........ = 1287;
March 06 ..... = 1538;
April 06 ....... = 1287;
May 06 ........ = 1417;
June 06 ....... = 2089;
July 06 ........ = 2066 = 1166 + 900;*
August 06 ... = 1925 = 1125 + 800.**

*Parados predicts 900 additional deaths will be obtained from July morgue data.

**ican predicts 800 additional deaths will be obtained from August morgue data.


The current trend since June looks approximately flat!

Despite all the pseudological propaganda otherwise, I bet the same is true for Afghanistan.

Regarless of how rotten the numbers are or become, the Afghan and Iraqi people must be saved from IT in order for the the human race to be saved from IT.


IT = Islama Totalitarians (e.g., al-Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Taliban, Baathists, et al).
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 07:26 pm
mysteryman wrote:
xingu wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
xingu wrote:
George Bush-war president; losing in Iraq and losing in Afghanistan.

Quote:
West Won’t Win Afghan War

By Eric Margolis

09/17/06 "Toronto Sun" -- -- As Canadian, American and British soldiers continue to die in Afghanistan, it is time the truth be told about this ugly little war.
...


Despite the vertible proliferation of leflib pseudological propaganda,The West will succeed in helping Afghans win the Afghan war.


I got news for you ican, they're not doing it now. They're losing.

What I presented is not "pseudological propaganda". If you can't accept reality then your no better than Bush.


And if you are looking at events now and using that to foretell the future of the war,you are also mistaken.

As an example,from 1939 to early 1942 the allies lost every battle of WW2.
Now,do you remember who won that war?
Yet you would have said that the allies wouldnt win,judging by those first years,wouldnt you.


You conservatives are always trying to compare WW II with todays events. Alright lets look at the example of 1939 to 1942.

We went into Afghanistan and kicked the Telibans butt, BIG TIME. Guess what, they're back, just like the allies of WW II.

On top of that Bush's insane foreign policy is the Teliban's biggest recruiter. George Bush is their biggest ally, not willingly of course, but through his incompetence. The Teliban has no fear of Pakistan, who left them their own little domain on the Afghanistan border. They have a safe harbor, lots of recruits and we don't have enough resources to fight two separate wars. And on top of that the White House idiot wants to start a third war with Iran.
Ya MM, we're getting our butts kicked in Afghanistan and Iraq. We're not making progress, we're going backwards.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 07:56 pm
xingu wrote:

...
You conservatives are always trying to compare WW II with todays events. Alright lets look at the example of 1939 to 1942.

We went into Afghanistan and kicked the Telibans butt, BIG TIME. Guess what, they're back, just like the allies of WW II.

On top of that Bush's insane foreign policy is the Teliban's biggest recruiter. George Bush is their biggest ally, not willingly of course, but through his incompetence. The Teliban has no fear of Pakistan, who left them their own little domain on the Afghanistan border. They have a safe harbor, lots of recruits and we don't have enough resources to fight two separate wars. And on top of that the White House idiot wants to start a third war with Iran.

Fortunately for the human race, FDR (and later Truman) during WWII did not have to contend with an effective enemy newsmedia in his own country, as well as with enemy nations who were out to conquer us. Now, unfortunately for the human race, Bush does have to contend with an effective enemy newsmedia in his own country, as well as enemy IT who are out to conquer us.


IT = Islama Totalitarians (e.g., al-Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Taliban, Baathists, et al).


Furthermore, I don't think Bush has the ability to attrack as competent people to help run the war as did FDR.

Finally, FDR did not have the handicap of dealing with so many Americans who value:

>proving the president is worse rather than helping the president be better.

>saving USA face more than saving life;

>rescuing USA reputation more than rescuing non-combatants;

>obtaining USA goodwill more than obtaining victory;

>achieving USA praise more than achieving peace.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 08:22 pm
Quote:
, FDR (and later Truman) during WWII did not have to contend with an effective enemy newsmedia in his own country


There is no 'enemy newsmedia' in this country. Only the truth.

Every day you slide a little farther away from reality, which is sad, really. Seeing those who speak out against our policies as enemies. Preposterous.

Perhaps the reason that more than half the country is against the Iraq war, and not helping the Bush Regime do better, is because they vehemently disagree with the transformation of our society and world in the fashion that you, amongst others, advocate; a transformation that would lose everything it means to be an American, in hopes of... what? Nothing, in the end.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 10:31 pm
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/09/shrill-hysterical-lefty-partisan.html

Quote:
Sunday, September 17, 2006
Shrill, hysterical lefty partisan blogger

I began writing a post in response to this truly ridiculous Op-Ed by John Yoo in this morning's NYT -- in which Yoo gleefully celebrates every authoritarian transgression of the Bush administration, from torture and pre-emptive wars to endless invocations of presidential secrecy, the issuance of "hundreds of signing statements" declaring laws invalid, and even what Yoo calls the President's assertion of his power to "sidestep laws that invade his executive authority" (what we used to call "breaking the law") (emphasis added in all instances).

But then I thought better of it, because, at this point, anyone who fails (or refuses) to recognize that the President does not have the power in our system of government to violate laws by invoking national security concerns is never going to recognize that. Yoo's Op-Ed is so flagrantly frivolous that it ought not be taken seriously. He even goes so far as to claim that the "founders intended that wrongheaded or obsolete legislation and judicial decisions would be checked by presidential action." How can you be on the faculty of a major law school and say this?

It is indeed true that the President has the power to "check" legislation that he considers "wrongheaded or obsolete" -- by vetoing bills before they're enacted into law, not by violating them after they're enacted into law. The whole point of Hamilton's Federalist No. 73 is to explain the purpose of the veto power, and specifically that "the case for which it is chiefly designed" is "that of an immediate attack upon the constitutional rights of the executive." That is how the President in our system of government defends against Congressional encroachments on his power and imposes "checks" on "wrongheaded or obsolete legislation" -- by vetoing such bills (an action which is then subject to being overridden), not by secretly violating laws at will.

Why is it even necessary to point out that the U.S. President does not have the power to violate laws which he thinks are "wrongheaded or obsolete," or that Presidents have no authority to disregard "wrongheaded or obsolete judicial decisions" (whatever that might mean)? And what permits a "law professor" to claim otherwise on the Op-Ed page of the NYT? Under this administration, there is no notion too radical or authoritarian to be off limits not only from being subject to debate, but from being implemented.

Just look at the things we're debating -- whether the U.S. Government can abduct and indefinitely imprison U.S. citizens without charges; whether we can use torture to interrogate people; whether our Government can eavesdrop on our private conversations without warrants; whether we can create secret prisons and keep people there out of sight and beyond the reach of any law or oversight; and whether the President can simply disregard long-standing constitutional limitations and duly enacted Congressional laws because he has deemed that doing so is necessary to "protect" us.

These haven't been open questions for decades if not centuries. They've been settled as intrinsic values that define our country. Yet nothing is settled or resolved any longer. Everything -- even the most extremist and authoritarian policies and things which were long considered taboo -- are now openly entertained, justifiable and routinely justified.

Rather than dissect Yoo's lawlessness-venerating Op-Ed, I instead want to quote a "lefty blogger" who makes some critically important points even though he is (admittedly) rather shrill and imprudent with his language and often sounds a bit like a partisan hysteric (he uses regrettably shrill words like "tyranny" and "despotism"). But on two issues in particular -- (a) secret prisons and detentions, along with punishment without trials, and (b) claims (such as those by Yoo and the White House) that courts are acting improperly by "interfering" in the President's national security programs -- he really does articulate some important points.

Here is the first post:

Quote:
The observations of the judicious Blackstone, in reference to the latter, are well worthy of recital: "To bereave a man of life, [says he] or by violence to confiscate his estate, without accusation or trial, would be so gross and notorious an act of despotism, as must at once convey the alarm of tyranny throughout the whole nation; but confinement of the person, by secretly hurrying him to jail, where his sufferings are unknown or forgotten, is a less public, a less striking, and therefore a more dangerous engine of arbitrary government.


Here is the second one:

Quote:

The complete independence of the courts of justice is peculiarly essential in a limited Constitution. By a limited Constitution, I understand one which contains certain specified exceptions to the legislative authority; such, for instance, as that it shall pass no bills of attainder, no ex post facto laws, and the like. Limitations of this kind can be preserved in practice no other way than through the medium of courts of justice, whose duty it must be to declare all acts contrary to the manifest tenor of the Constitution void. Without this, all the reservations of particular rights or privileges would amount to nothing. . . .

The interpretation of the laws is the proper and peculiar province of the courts
. A constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges, as a fundamental law. It therefore belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Constitution ought to be preferred to the statute, the intention of the people to the intention of their agents.



This lefty blogger fails to take seriously the existential threat posed by Islamofascist-Nazi Terrorists, because he resists the notion that the Constitution changes as a result of that threat. Instead, he claims that the Constitution can only be changed by the amendment process set forth within that document, not by whimsical reactions to contemporary events. Apparently, he hasn't heard the brilliant insight that the Constitution is not a 'suicide pact'-- which means we can disregard it any time doing so makes us safe -- or that, as the President said, Judge Taylor's decision ruling the NSA program unconstitutional happened because she "simply do[es] not understand the nature of the world in which we live":

Quote:

. . . yet it is not to be inferred from this principle, that the representatives of the people, whenever a momentary inclination happens to lay hold of a majority of their constituents, incompatible with the provisions in the existing Constitution, would, on that account, be justifiable in a violation of those provisions; or that the courts would be under a greater obligation to connive at infractions in this shape, than when they had proceeded wholly from the cabals of the representative body.

Until the people have, by some solemn and authoritative act, annulled or changed the established form, it is binding upon themselves collectively, as well as individually; and no presumption, or even knowledge, of their sentiments, can warrant their representatives in a departure from it, prior to such an act.



The vision of John Yoo and the Bush administration is exactly what this country was founded in order to avoid. The powers Yoo insists the President possesses are exactly those which were identified by the Founders as the hallmarks of tyrants and despots. Of course, if Hamilton said anything like he said in the above-excerpted quotes as part of our current debates, he would be branded a shrill, unserious, soft-on-terrorism, partisan hysteric by the Washington Post Editorial Board and certain highly serious and very responsible magazines.

If only Alexander Hamilton and the other Founders had understood the grave, existential, unprecedented threat posed by Islamicfascist Nazi jihadists, they would have understood all of this and would have enthusiastically embraced all the things they waged war to prevent and which they impetuously and shrilly called "notorious acts of despotism." But there is no need to change the Constitution they created and for which they advocated. It can just be decreed to be different by the President whenever national security demands it. Just ask John Yoo or Richard Posner or any Bush followers. That's what they'll tell you.


I think this paragraph needs to be repeated:

Quote:

Just look at the things we're debating -- whether the U.S. Government can abduct and indefinitely imprison U.S. citizens without charges; whether we can use torture to interrogate people; whether our Government can eavesdrop on our private conversations without warrants; whether we can create secret prisons and keep people there out of sight and beyond the reach of any law or oversight; and whether the President can simply disregard long-standing constitutional limitations and duly enacted Congressional laws because he has deemed that doing so is necessary to "protect" us.


And you wonder why more people aren't getting behind Bush, Ican. Look what he is arguing for.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 02:46 am
It's breathtaking in it's audacity, yet it is the kind of executive power envisioned long ago by a member of the White House Staff of Richard M. Nixon, a fella by the name of Dick Cheney. (See John Dean's Conservatives Without Conscience)

Joe(Who's going to stop them?)Nation
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 07:11 am
Joe Nation wrote:
It's breathtaking in it's audacity, yet it is the kind of executive power envisioned long ago by a member of the White House Staff of Richard M. Nixon, a fella by the name of Dick Cheney. (See John Dean's Conservatives Without Conscience)

Joe(Who's going to stop them?)Nation


No one, despite Ican skewed perception of the new media today, rather than the media stopping Bush, the vast majority aides and abets him.

For example: (one among quite a bit)

Media uncritically reported Bush's false suggestion that Powell letter compared "the compassion and decency of the American people and the terrorist tactics of extremists"
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 11:31 am
IT have declared their intention to murder the Pope and destroy Western Civilization.

IT = Islama Totalitarians (e.g., al-Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Taliban, Baathists, et al).

NEW WORLD TRANSLATION OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES
added emphasis
Quote:

http://www.watchtower.org/bible/index.htm

Exodus 20:1-26

1 And God proceeded to speak all these words, saying:
...
13. You must not murder.
...

Exodus 21:1-36

1. And these are the judicial decisions that you are to set before them:
...
12. One who strikes a man so that he actually dies is to be put to death without fail .
...
16. And one who kidnaps a man and who actually sells him or in whose hand he has been found is to be put to death without fail .

17. And who calls down evil upon his father and his mother is to be put to death without fail.
...

Revelation 13:1-18
...

16 And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, 17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. 18 Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man's number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
666! Hmmmm ...
"Hej. 8 (A.D. 630)--The triumphant entry of Muhammad into Mecca."
Did the A.D. calendar leave out 36 years?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

THE HOLY QUR'AN ENGLISH TRANSLATION
added emphasis
Quote:

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/quran/qsearch.pl?surah=2

2. The Cow (Al-Baqarah)
002.191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.


http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/quran/qsearch.pl?surah=4

4. Women (An-Nisáa)
004.089 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

4. Women (An-Nisáa)
004.091 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.


http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/quran/qsearch.pl?surah=9

9. Repentance (Al-Tauba)
009.005 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/quran/qsearch.pl?surah=005

5. The Table Spread (Al-Máída)

005.032 For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.

We know what IT truly believe! IT repeatedly tell us what they believe: "slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free."

What do true Muslims truly believe? Do they believe: "whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind"?

What do you truly believe?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 11:47 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
, FDR (and later Truman) during WWII did not have to contend with an effective enemy newsmedia in his own country



There is no 'enemy newsmedia' in this country. Only the truth.
Cycloptichorn


Yes there is an enemy newsmedia in this country. They frequently have admitted their own pseudological propaganda after they were found out and sufficiently embarassed to do so.

But the leflibs cannot see what is there for all to see, because it deprives their self-images of their dependency on the belief that Bush and Conservatives are rotten.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 12:29 pm
Quote:

But the leflibs cannot see what is there for all to see, because it deprives their self-images of their dependency on the belief that Bush and Conservatives are rotten.


You have allowed yourself to become so ideologically blinded, that noone who holds a different opinion than your own - in your mind - can be driven by anything other than hatred and false logic. This is a perilous trap, thinking that a vast swath of people - the Majority of Americans and world citizens - are wrong, and you are right.

Perhaps you should examine your own self-image.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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