0
   

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

 
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 03:12 am
And let's NOT forget this crucial issue, which has not been discussed anywhere much of late.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/white-house-says-its-bui_b_23830.html

"Instead of playing into Rove's hands, Democrats should forget about the "scenario building" of troop reductions that will or won't happen and focus on a different kind of building -- the building of a permanent U.S. military presence in Iraq.

We know Bush is planning on keeping a 50,000 man force in Iraq for years to come (remember we still have 30,000 troops in South Korea, 50,000 in Japan, and 70,000 in Germany). And we know that we're building a massive billion dollar U.S. embassy in Baghdad with 21 buildings on 104 acres -- not exactly indicative of an occupying force on the way out anytime soon.

And we know that it's always been a neocon dream to establish permanent military bases in Iraq as the base from which to weild political and military dominance throughout the greater Middle East. The White House steadfastly refuses to make its intentions on this matter clear -- a point the Democrats need to attack them on and keep hammering home.

Whenever a Democrat speaks out against the Iraq war, the right wing pundits and politicians are quick to jump on the same talking point of "what kind of message is this sending to our enemies?"... What kind of message is building permanent bases in Iraq and retaining a troop level of 50,000 for years to come going to send? This could provide to be a key recruiting tool for al Qaeda and provide great propaganda.

"If we are planning to leave in the near future," Gary Hart, who has been pushing the issue for many months, told me, "why are we pouring concrete and welding steel? The hope is that the next president will also be a clueless Republican under the influence of the neoconservatives who will support their original plan."

Jack Murtha had this to say on the message we should be sending to Iraqis: "We do not want permanent bases. We want them to understand that we're going to leave."

For its part, Congress has gone back and forth on the subject. Back in March, the House by voice vote passed an amendment to the latest supplemental Defense spending bill barring the use of any of the money for the construction of permanent bases in Iraq. In May, the Senate unanimously did the same. Then, earlier this month, Republican staffers deleted the no-funding-for-permanent-bases provision. And, just last week, the House overwhelming voted to restore the provision.

You can bet that won't be the end of it. As Hart told me: "The truth is that what's really happening regarding these permanent bases is the most closely held secret in Washington." "
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 03:36 am
Amazing: How can so many read only the downside and think they can intelligently comment on the whole? Yeah, peace keeping forces are bad, bad, bad. Rolling Eyes

South Korea, Japan and Germany have suffered how from American troops being stationed there? Last I checked: these are three of the most successful Countries on Planet Earth. What could possibly be your point, Sumac?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 04:45 am
Quote:
Three Iraq Myths That Won't Quit

By Scott Ritter

06/26/06 "AlterNet" -- -- It is hard sometimes to know what is real and what is fiction when it comes to the news out of Iraq. America is in its "silly season," the summer months leading up to a national election, and the media is going full speed ahead in exploiting its primacy in the news arena by substituting responsible reporting with headline-grabbing entertainment.
So, as America closes in on the end of June and the celebration of the 230th year of our nation's birth, I thought I would pen a short primer on three myths on Iraq to keep an eye out for as we "debate" the various issues pertaining to our third year of war in that country.

The myth of sovereignty Imagine the president of the United States flying to Russia, China, England, France or just about any other nation on the planet, landing at an airport on supposedly sovereign territory, being driven under heavy U.S. military protection to the U.S. Embassy, and then with some five minutes notification, summoning the highest elected official of that nation to the U.S. Embassy for a meeting. It would never happen, unless of course the nation in question is Iraq, where Iraqi sovereignty continues to be hyped as a reality when in fact it is as fictitious as any fairy tale ever penned by the Brothers Grimm. For all of the talk of a free Iraq, the fact is Iraq remains very much an occupied nation where the United States (and its ever decreasing "coalition of the willing") gets to call all the shots.

Iraqi military policy is made by the United States. Its borders are controlled by the United States. Its economy is controlled largely by the United States. In fact, there simply isn't a single major indicator of actual sovereignty in Iraq today that can be said to be free of overwhelming American control. Iraqi ministers continue to be shot at by coalition forces, and Iraqi police are powerless to investigate criminal activities carried out by American troops (or their mercenary counterparts, the so-called "Private Military Contractors"). The reality of this myth is that the timeline for the departure of American troops from Iraq is being debated (and decided) in Washington, D.C., not Baghdad. Of course, as with everything in Iraq, the final vote will be made by the people of Iraq. But these votes will be cast in bullets, not ballots, and will bring with them not only the departure of American troops from Iraq, but also the demise of any Iraqi government foolish enough to align itself with a nation that violates international law by planning and waging an illegal war of aggression, and continues to conduct an increasingly brutal (and equally illegitimate) occupation.

The myth of Zarqawi I have said all along that the poll figures showing Americans to be overwhelmingly against the war in Iraq were illusory. Only 28 percent of Americans were against the war when we invaded Iraq. The ranks have swelled to over 60 percent not because there has been an awakening of social conscience and responsibility, but rather because things aren't going well in Iraq, and there is increasing angst in the American heartland because we seem to be losing the war in Iraq, and no one likes a loser. So when the word came that the notorious terrorist, Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, was killed by American military action, the president suddenly had a "good week," and poll numbers adjusted slightly in his favor. However, the facts cannot be re-written, even by a slavish American mainstream media. Zarqawi was never anything more than a minor player in Iraq, a third-rate Jordanian criminal whose exploits were hyped up by a Bush administration anxious to prove that the insurgency that was getting the best of America in Iraq was foreign-grown and linked to the perpetrators of the 9/11 terror attacks nonetheless. The reality of just how wrong such an assessment is (and was) has been pounded home in blood. Since Zarqawi's death, the violence has continued to spiral out of control in Iraq, with Americans continuing to die, Iraqis still being slaughtered, and Zarqawi and his organization, successor and all, still as irrelevant to reality as ever. The war against the American occupation in Iraq is being fought overwhelmingly by Iraqis. The insurgency is growing and becoming stronger and more organized by the day. This, of course, is a reality that the Bush administration cannot afford to have the American people know about in an election year, as a compliant media, having sold its soul to the devil in hyping of the virtues of an invasion of Iraq back in 2002-2003, continues to dance with the party that brought them by supporting the Republican position, by and large, that the conflict in Iraq is a winnable one for America. Good ratings, more dead Americans (and Iraqis, but who is counting?) and a war that will never end until the United States finally slinks out, defeated, its tail tucked firmly between its legs.

The myth of WMD Regardless of what Sen. Rick Santorum and the lunatic neoconservative fringe want to think, no weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq. Citing a classified Department of Defense report that claims some 500 artillery shells have been found in Iraq by U.S. forces since the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq in March 2003, Santorum and his cronies in the right-wing media have been spouting nonsense about how Bush got it right all along, that there were WMD in Iraq after all. He conveniently fails to report that there is nothing "secret" about this data, it has all been reported before (by the Bush administration, nonetheless), and that the shells in question constitute old artillery munitions manufactured well prior to 1991 (the year of the first Gulf War, and a time after which the government of Saddam Hussein stated -- correctly, it turned out -- that no WMD were produced in Iraq). The degraded sarin nerve agent and mustard blister agent contained in the discovered munitions had long since lost their viability, and as such represented no threat whatsoever. Furthermore, the haphazard way in which they were "discovered" (lying about the ground, as opposed to carefully stored away) only reinforces the Iraqi government's past claims that many chemical munitions were scattered about the desert countryside in remote areas following U.S. bombing attacks on the ammunition storage depots during the first Gulf War. Having personally inspected scores of these bombed-out depots, I can vouch for the veracity of the past Iraqi claims, as well as the absurdity of the claims made today by Santorum and others, who continue to hold personal political gain as being worth more than the blood of over 2,500 dead Americans.

These three myths -- WMD, Zarqawi and Iraqi sovereignty -- are what members of Congress should be debating in their halls of power, the American media should be discussing either in print or across the airwaves, and that discussion should constitute the foundation of a movement towards accountability, where the citizens of the United States finally point an accusatory finger at those whom they elected to represent them in higher office, and who have failed in almost every regard when it comes to Iraq. But then again, silly me for thinking this way, believing that there was an engaged constituency within America that knows and understands the Constitution of the United States and seeks to live each day as a true citizen empowered by the ideal and values set forth by that document. I had overlooked the Fourth Myth -- that American citizens are engaged in our national debate.

Scott Ritter served as chief U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq from 1991 until his resignation in 1998. He is the author of, most recently, "Iraq Confidential: The Untold Story of the Intelligence Conspiracy to Undermine the U.N. and Overthrow Saddam Hussein" (Nation Books, 2005).
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 04:58 am
Released by the AP earlier this morning:

"Sunni group endorses reconciliation plan
By BUSHRA JUHI, Associated Press Writers
54 minutes ago



BAGHDAD, Iraq - One of Iraq's largest Sunni Arab groups endorsed the prime minister's national reconciliation plan on Tuesday, and the government announced new benefits to help freed detainees return to normal lives.

The political moves came a day after bombs killed at least 40 people at markets in two Iraqi cities, while key lawmakers said seven Sunni Arab insurgent groups offered the government a conditional truce.

A suicide car bomb also struck a busy gas station in the northern city of Kirkuk on Tuesday, killing at least three people and wounding 17, police Col. Adel Abdullah said. Fifteen cars were charred by the flames.

A U.S. Marine and a soldier were killed in separate attacks Tuesday west and south of Baghdad, while another U.S. soldier died the day before in the volatile Anbar province, the military said. The deaths raised to 2,528 the number of U.S. military service members who have died since the war started in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

In the first tangible measure after the reconciliation plan was announced on Sunday, the council of ministers said government employees who had been detained and recently released will be reinstated to their jobs and their service should be considered uninterrupted in consideration of bonuses, promotion and retirement privileges.

The ministers said freed students will be allowed to return to school to take their final exams and will not be failed for the 2005-2006 school year despite time missed.

The measures were decided at the council's normal session on June 21 "to pave the way for the prime minister's reconciliation initiative," according to a statement released Monday.

It said the benefits could only be enjoyed once by former detainees and would not apply if somebody is arrested again.

The Justice Ministry, meanwhile, said 453 more detainees were released from U.S. detention centers across Iraq, part of al-Maliki's plans to free 2,500 by the end of the month as a goodwill gesture.

In another boost for the Shiite prime minister's reconciliation proposal, prominent Sunni cleric Ahmed Abdul Ghafour al-Samaraie offered the support of his Sunni Endowment, the state agency responsible for Sunni mosques and shrines.

But he urged the government to move quickly to fill in the details of the plan and said it should include the disbanding of armed militias, as well as the release of all prisoners who have not been convicted.

"We bless this initiative," he said. "We see a glimpse of hope out of this plan, but at the same time we are noticing that some people are pushing the armed groups to attack some areas in Baghdad, spreading terror and chaos in the city in order to make this plan a failure."

"Thus, the government is required to take decisive actions so that the citizens feel that the state is a real protector," he added. "We think that the first step to be taken regarding this plan is to disband armed militias because the government will not be able to impose the law on everybody with the presence of those militiamen that consider themselves above the law."

Minority Sunnis have blamed Shiite-led militias of random detentions and torture.

The bombings Monday came as a reminder of just how difficult establishing security can be in many areas of Iraq. Both markets were jammed with shoppers buying dinner provisions as temperatures began to cool after sunset.

The deadliest attack was a bicycle bombing in Baqouba, the Sunni insurgent stronghold 35 miles northeast of Baghdad. The bombing killed at least 25 and wounded 33, according to Dr. Ahmed Fouad, director of the morgue at Baqouba General Hospital.

Minutes earlier, a blast killed at least 15 people and wounded 56 in Hillah, a mainly Shiite city 65 miles south of the capital, said police Capt. Muthana Khalid.

A bomb also exploded near a house in the village of Khernabat, wounding four residents, in the same area where the bicycle attack occurred, police said.

The seven insurgent organizations who approached the government are mostly made up of former members or backers of Saddam Hussein's government, military or security agencies, and were motivated in part by fear of undue Iranian influence in the country, lawmakers said.

If confirmed, their offer would mark an important potential shift and could stand as evidence of a growing divide between Iraq's homegrown Sunni insurgency and the more brutal and ideological fighters of al-Qaida in Iraq, who are believed to be mainly non-Iraqi Islamic militants.

Kurdish lawmaker Mahmoud Othman linked the offer to al-Maliki's national reconciliation plan, involving amnesty for opposition fighters except those who had killed Iraqis, were involved in terrorism or committed crimes against humanity. Al-Maliki's plan, disclosed Sunday, was thought to have denied amnesty to any insurgent who had killed American forces, though the wording was vague.

The Mujahedeen Shura Council, the terrorist umbrella organization that includes al-Qaida in Iraq, rejected the reconciliation plan.

Shiite lawmaker Hassan al-Suneid, who first reported insurgent groups' gesture, said al-Maliki was considering a possible meeting with their leaders or contacts through intermediaries. Al-Suneid is a member of the political bureau of al-Maliki's Dawa Party.

The opening was confirmed by Othman, a close associate of President Jalal Talabani, who held face-to-face talks with seven insurgent organizations about two months ago. It was never clear which groups Talabani met with.

Al-Suneid gave the names of six of the seven organizations that approached the government Monday: the 1920 Revolution Brigades, the Mohammed Army, Abtal al-Iraq (Heroes of Iraq), the 9th of April Group, al- Fatah Brigades and the Brigades of the General Command of the Armed Forces.

"I expect that those groups are the same ones that have made contacts with President Talabani, and now they are widening the range of their contacts. Now they are more serious after the announcement of the (reconciliation) plan," al-Suneid told The Associated Press.

Othman was unable to name the groups or say whether they were the same ones Talibani had contacted. But he said they also sought talks with U.S. forces.

A meaningful truce with insurgents would make it much easier for the United States to withdraw troops from Iraq.

In other developments Tuesday:

• A professor at a technology university in Baghdad was gunned down in a drive-by shooting in the upscale neighborhood of Mansour. The Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Studies also said it will stage a sit-in in all universities on Wednesday to protest the frequent kidnappings and violence targeting its employees.

• Police found the bullet-riddled bodies of five men, including three who were handcuffed, in two areas of Baghdad."
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 06:27 am
What happens when you abandon Afghanistan and run off to some little adventure in Iraq? You lose both of them.

Quote:
We'll beat you again, Afghans warn British

Declan Walsh in Maiwand
Monday June 26, 2006
The Guardian

Many great armies have rolled through Maiwand. Over the centuries Persians, Moghuls and Russians have traversed the ramshackle hamlet on the sunbaked plains of western Kandahar. But nobody has forgotten the British.

"Even a child knows the history," snorted Muhammad Amman, an 85-yearold with a combed white beard, recalling a battle 126 years ago. "A king gathered the people to vanquish the British - a great victory." Other shoppers in the town bazaar nodded vigorously as he described Britons in derogatory terms, including one involving sexual relations with donkeys.

Anti-foreigner sentiment has risen sharply in southern Afghanistan as bloodshed intensifies. Over the weekend 45 Taliban militants and two soldiers from the US-led coalition were killed in Panjwayi district, near Maiwand, the coalition said. More than 250 people have died in Operation Mountain Thrust, a major anti- Taliban offensive launched 11 days ago.
Western commanders claim they are bringing the insurgency to heel, but there is growing resentment among Afghans at the high death toll.

President Hamid Karzai acknowledged this last week, saying: "It is not acceptable for us that in all this fighting, Afghans are dying."

Memories of expelling unwanted outsiders are strongest in Maiwand. In 1880 almost 1,000 British and Indian soldiers died at the hands of an Afghan tribal army at the height of the second Anglo-Afghan war. One British officer, recalling the frantic retreat along a "blood-stained" road, described Maiwand as "simply a rat trap".

Today the town - an unlovely haunt of drug traders, Taliban spies and unhappy tribesmen - has lost little of its menace. A charred police jeep lies where four police died in a recent roadside bomb. Hashish and opium are sold openly in the bazaar, where pro-Taliban sympathies are freely expressed.

"The Taliban want to clear our territory of infidels, and why not?" said shopkeeper Abdul Ali Maiwandi. "At least when the Taliban are in power your property is safe, your family is safe, and you are safe."

Bullet holes pockmark the front gate of the police station. The militants are well equipped and organised, said Umar Jan, the chain-smoking police chief. "They use mobile phones to coordinate ambushes on our patrols. It's a big problem," he said.

One quarter of the town's 60 police had been killed in the past three months, he complained, yet Canadian soldiers based in Kandahar, 40 miles east, had done little to help. "They show up maybe once a week, promising vehicles and ammunition but bringing nothing," he said. "Now we take their words like a joke."

Around 3,300 British troops are stationed in Helmand province, 15 miles away.

The heroine of the 1880 battle was Malalai of Maiwand, who roused Pashtun tribesmen to fight and is still celebrated as a national hero. Lal Muhammad, 61, who described himself as her great-greatgrandson, declared: "I am not afraid of you foreign infidels. We have a proud history against you."

Soon the Afghan tribes will rise up, he said. "A time will come when your modern technology no longer works. Then we will fight you by sword, and we will see who is strongest," he said, predicting a "great war" in which Christ will return and convert to Islam.

Others had more prosaic concerns. Haider Khan, 38, was disgusted that his son, 16, could no longer attend school. "I want him to be educated but the school is closed. There is no good system here."

Talatbek Masadykov, head of the UN office in Kandahar, said he believed most southerners still supported western intervention.

But rising violence had released frustrations at the failures of the Karzai administration, he said. "The government's popularity is very low in the south," he said. "It has failed to provide security and been slow to sack corrupt officials. That creates a lot of animosity."
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 06:33 am
What happens when you abandon Afghanistan and run off to some little adventure in Iraq? You lose both of them.

Quote:
We'll beat you again, Afghans warn British

Declan Walsh in Maiwand
Monday June 26, 2006
The Guardian

Many great armies have rolled through Maiwand. Over the centuries Persians, Moghuls and Russians have traversed the ramshackle hamlet on the sunbaked plains of western Kandahar. But nobody has forgotten the British.

"Even a child knows the history," snorted Muhammad Amman, an 85-yearold with a combed white beard, recalling a battle 126 years ago. "A king gathered the people to vanquish the British - a great victory." Other shoppers in the town bazaar nodded vigorously as he described Britons in derogatory terms, including one involving sexual relations with donkeys.

Anti-foreigner sentiment has risen sharply in southern Afghanistan as bloodshed intensifies. Over the weekend 45 Taliban militants and two soldiers from the US-led coalition were killed in Panjwayi district, near Maiwand, the coalition said. More than 250 people have died in Operation Mountain Thrust, a major anti- Taliban offensive launched 11 days ago.
Western commanders claim they are bringing the insurgency to heel, but there is growing resentment among Afghans at the high death toll.

President Hamid Karzai acknowledged this last week, saying: "It is not acceptable for us that in all this fighting, Afghans are dying."

Memories of expelling unwanted outsiders are strongest in Maiwand. In 1880 almost 1,000 British and Indian soldiers died at the hands of an Afghan tribal army at the height of the second Anglo-Afghan war. One British officer, recalling the frantic retreat along a "blood-stained" road, described Maiwand as "simply a rat trap".

Today the town - an unlovely haunt of drug traders, Taliban spies and unhappy tribesmen - has lost little of its menace. A charred police jeep lies where four police died in a recent roadside bomb. Hashish and opium are sold openly in the bazaar, where pro-Taliban sympathies are freely expressed.

"The Taliban want to clear our territory of infidels, and why not?" said shopkeeper Abdul Ali Maiwandi. "At least when the Taliban are in power your property is safe, your family is safe, and you are safe."

Bullet holes pockmark the front gate of the police station. The militants are well equipped and organised, said Umar Jan, the chain-smoking police chief. "They use mobile phones to coordinate ambushes on our patrols. It's a big problem," he said.

One quarter of the town's 60 police had been killed in the past three months, he complained, yet Canadian soldiers based in Kandahar, 40 miles east, had done little to help. "They show up maybe once a week, promising vehicles and ammunition but bringing nothing," he said. "Now we take their words like a joke."

Around 3,300 British troops are stationed in Helmand province, 15 miles away.

The heroine of the 1880 battle was Malalai of Maiwand, who roused Pashtun tribesmen to fight and is still celebrated as a national hero. Lal Muhammad, 61, who described himself as her great-greatgrandson, declared: "I am not afraid of you foreign infidels. We have a proud history against you."

Soon the Afghan tribes will rise up, he said. "A time will come when your modern technology no longer works. Then we will fight you by sword, and we will see who is strongest," he said, predicting a "great war" in which Christ will return and convert to Islam.

Others had more prosaic concerns. Haider Khan, 38, was disgusted that his son, 16, could no longer attend school. "I want him to be educated but the school is closed. There is no good system here."

Talatbek Masadykov, head of the UN office in Kandahar, said he believed most southerners still supported western intervention.

But rising violence had released frustrations at the failures of the Karzai administration, he said. "The government's popularity is very low in the south," he said. "It has failed to provide security and been slow to sack corrupt officials. That creates a lot of animosity."
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 06:59 am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/26/AR2006062601306_pf.html

Analyst Says He Warned of Iraqi Resistance
Danger Was Clear Early, White Said

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 27, 2006; A04



Days after the United States invaded Iraq, senior U.S. officials were warned that Iraqi Sunnis would strongly resist American troops' occupation efforts, according to testimony given yesterday before Senate Democrats.

Wayne White, a former deputy director in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, told senators that when British soldiers were forced to repeatedly take the port city of Umm Qasr from Iraqi guerrillas, "I knew then and there that we would have a serious problem on our hands."

"I quickly warned, around the first week or 10 days of the war . . . that this spelled danger as we moved farther north, especially into Iraq's Sunni Arab heartland," White told the Senate Democratic Policy Committee.

The advisory came in a formal bureau assessment that typically goes to senior officials at the State Department.

Noting that a Sunni insurgency began to gather momentum only after conventional fighting ended in May 2003, White said, "My warning was accurate, just a tad premature."

Yesterday's hearing in the Dirksen Senate Office Building was conducted, said committee Chairman Byron L. Dorgan (N.D.), "to understand what has happened in the recent past and what lessons can be learned from that with respect to the future."

Dorgan said he had invited Sen. Jon Kyl (Ariz.), who runs the Republican Policy Committee, to join the session, but Kyl declined.

Witnesses who came before the senators included Paul R. Pillar, a longtime CIA analyst and a former national intelligence officer covering Iraq, and Lawrence B. Wilkerson, chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell.

White and Pillar both discussed the lack of Middle East experience by White House officials, including President Bush and Vice President Cheney, who pushed for the Iraq invasion. White said that "lack was a major impediment to sound policymaking if one already does not have an open mind and is driven by a particular agenda."

Pillar said "little if any" of the warnings such as White's, on the problems that would be faced in post-Hussein Iraq, "influenced the decision-making on going to war."

Assessments by the intelligence community, Pillar said, showed that the "political culture" of Iraq "would not provide fertile ground for democracy," and analysts foresaw "a significant chance that the sectarian and ethnic groups would engage in violent conflict unless an occupying power prevented it."

They also predicted that the occupying forces would become targets and that "war and occupation would boost political Islam, increase sympathy for terrorist objectives and make Iraq a magnet for extremists from elsewhere in the Middle East," Pillar said.


White's and Pillar's testimony marked the first time intelligence assessments on postwar Iraq have been specifically discussed in a congressional session
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 07:03 am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/26/AR2006062601306_pf.html

Analyst Says He Warned of Iraqi Resistance
Danger Was Clear Early, White Said

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 27, 2006; A04



Days after the United States invaded Iraq, senior U.S. officials were warned that Iraqi Sunnis would strongly resist American troops' occupation efforts, according to testimony given yesterday before Senate Democrats.

Wayne White, a former deputy director in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, told senators that when British soldiers were forced to repeatedly take the port city of Umm Qasr from Iraqi guerrillas, "I knew then and there that we would have a serious problem on our hands."

"I quickly warned, around the first week or 10 days of the war . . . that this spelled danger as we moved farther north, especially into Iraq's Sunni Arab heartland," White told the Senate Democratic Policy Committee.

The advisory came in a formal bureau assessment that typically goes to senior officials at the State Department.

Noting that a Sunni insurgency began to gather momentum only after conventional fighting ended in May 2003, White said, "My warning was accurate, just a tad premature."

Yesterday's hearing in the Dirksen Senate Office Building was conducted, said committee Chairman Byron L. Dorgan (N.D.), "to understand what has happened in the recent past and what lessons can be learned from that with respect to the future."

Dorgan said he had invited Sen. Jon Kyl (Ariz.), who runs the Republican Policy Committee, to join the session, but Kyl declined.

Witnesses who came before the senators included Paul R. Pillar, a longtime CIA analyst and a former national intelligence officer covering Iraq, and Lawrence B. Wilkerson, chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell.

White and Pillar both discussed the lack of Middle East experience by White House officials, including President Bush and Vice President Cheney, who pushed for the Iraq invasion. White said that "lack was a major impediment to sound policymaking if one already does not have an open mind and is driven by a particular agenda."

Pillar said "little if any" of the warnings such as White's, on the problems that would be faced in post-Hussein Iraq, "influenced the decision-making on going to war."

Assessments by the intelligence community, Pillar said, showed that the "political culture" of Iraq "would not provide fertile ground for democracy," and analysts foresaw "a significant chance that the sectarian and ethnic groups would engage in violent conflict unless an occupying power prevented it."

They also predicted that the occupying forces would become targets and that "war and occupation would boost political Islam, increase sympathy for terrorist objectives and make Iraq a magnet for extremists from elsewhere in the Middle East," Pillar said.


White's and Pillar's testimony marked the first time intelligence assessments on postwar Iraq have been specifically discussed in a congressional session
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 07:54 am
Quote:
Amazing: How can so many read only the downside and think they can intelligently comment on the whole? Yeah, peace keeping forces are bad, bad, bad.

South Korea, Japan and Germany have suffered how from American troops being stationed there? Last I checked: these are three of the most successful Countries on Planet Earth. What could possibly be your point, Sumac?


Granted those of us against the war do see the downside more often than not, however, the reverse can said for the pro war side. Pot meet kettle kind of a thing.

We are at those countries with their permission. Iraq has said at some point it wants to take over all of the security of Iraq and wants US forces to leave. The US having permanent bases in Iraq don't jive with that desire from the Iraqis.

Quote:
A national reconciliation plan for Iraq calls for a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. troops and, controversially, amnesty for insurgents who attacked American and Iraqi soldiers.

source
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 02:53 pm
Your assumptions are academic until such time the sovereign government of Iraq actually asks us to leave... if indeed they ever do. Should peace be obtained... I seriously doubt they'd be inclined to do so. Our bases are non threatening to our allies and essentially are equivalent to a free insurance policy in case of future eruptions. While I know plenty of South Korean's have opined they'd like us to leave, the South Korean government NEVER has... and I doubt they ever will. At least not until such time as Kim Jong Il & Co. are replaced with a just system of government. Think about it.

I know I wouldn't mind it if my bar had a couple of off-duty police officers sitting in it at all times. Idea
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 03:08 pm
"In an exclusive interview with The Times, Nouri al-Maliki, the Prime Minister of Iraq, talks to Ned Parker in Baghdad about reconciliation, amnesty and justice for the people of his divided land.":

Full text of interview with Iraqi Prime Minister
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jun, 2006 07:39 pm
That was also picked up here by the Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/27/AR2006062700427.html?referrer=email&referrer=email

Amnesty To Exclude Killers of GIs, Iraqis
Prime Minister's Vow Clarifies Key Section Of Reconciliation Plan

By Joshua Partlow and Bassam Sebti
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, June 28, 2006; Page A14

BAGHDAD, June 27 -- Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki vowed Tuesday that no one who has killed Americans or Iraqis would be pardoned under his government's national reconciliation plan.

"The fighter who did not kill anyone will be included in the amnesty, but the fighter who killed someone will not be," Maliki said in his first interview with Western print reporters since he became prime minister last month. "This is an international commitment, an ethical commitment: Whoever kills is not included in amnesty."
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jun, 2006 07:42 pm
: Iraq insurgents offer to stop attacks

By STEVEN R. HURST and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA,
Associated Press Writers


BAGHDAD, Iraq - Eleven Sunni insurgent groups have offered to halt attacks on the U.S.-led military if the Iraqi government and President Bush set a two-year timetable for withdrawing all foreign troops from the country, insurgent and government officials told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

The demand is part of a broad offer from the groups, who operate north of Baghdad in the heavily Sunni Arab provinces of Salahuddin and Diyala. Although much of the fighting has been to the west, those provinces have become increasingly violent and the attacks there have regularly crippled oil and commerce routes.

The groups do not include the powerful Islamic Army in Iraq, Muhammad Army and the Mujahedeen Shura Council, the umbrella label for eight militant groups including al-Qaida in Iraq. But the new offer comes at a time when Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's government is reaching out to militant Sunnis, including a new amnesty plan for insurgent fighters.

Al-Maliki, in remarks broadcast on national television Wednesday, did not issue an outright rejection of the timetable demand but said it was unrealistic because he could not be certain when the Iraqi army and police would be strong enough to assume full responsibility for the country's security.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jun, 2006 08:10 pm
Just thinking out loud, here...

But I think we may be wrong in the stance that those who've killed G.I.'s should be excluded from amnesty. We call it a war and we're talking truce... so don't you almost have to legitimize the killing of your enemy? Wouldn't we be better off if the Iraqis offered Amnesty to all who aren't guilty of crimes against humanity... in exchange for full disclosure and some form of future monitoring? Wouldn't we rather know who the killers are and have their agreement to stop killing, than send the message that they may as well keep killing until they can be identified and brought to justice? A soldier who kills his enemy isn't necessarily a murderer.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jun, 2006 05:53 am
Quote:
But I think we may be wrong in the stance that those who've killed G.I.'s should be excluded from amnesty. We call it a war and we're talking truce... so don't you almost have to legitimize the killing of your enemy? Wouldn't we be better off if the Iraqis offered Amnesty to all who aren't guilty of crimes against humanity... in exchange for full disclosure and some form of future monitoring? Wouldn't we rather know who the killers are and have their agreement to stop killing, than send the message that they may as well keep killing until they can be identified and brought to justice? A soldier who kills his enemy isn't necessarily a murderer.

The whole idea of amnesty is to get the Sunnis to stop fighting. If you give amnesty to those who have not committed crimes your right back to square one. Why bother to stop fighting?

If your talking about monitoring your denying them their independance. That's what they're fighting for.

Quote:
A soldier who kills his enemy isn't necessarily a murderer.

And to a Sunni killing an invader of ones country or those who cooperate with the invaders is not a murderer either. Were the French underground terrorist during WWII? Like you said we're calling this a war and in war a person has the right to defend his country against an invader. Would we do no less if this country were invaded?
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jun, 2006 05:55 am
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jun, 2006 06:42 am
xingu wrote:
Quote:
But I think we may be wrong in the stance that those who've killed G.I.'s should be excluded from amnesty. We call it a war and we're talking truce... so don't you almost have to legitimize the killing of your enemy? Wouldn't we be better off if the Iraqis offered Amnesty to all who aren't guilty of crimes against humanity... in exchange for full disclosure and some form of future monitoring? Wouldn't we rather know who the killers are and have their agreement to stop killing, than send the message that they may as well keep killing until they can be identified and brought to justice? A soldier who kills his enemy isn't necessarily a murderer.

The whole idea of amnesty is to get the Sunnis to stop fighting. If you give amnesty to those who have not committed crimes your right back to square one. Why bother to stop fighting?

If your talking about monitoring your denying them their independance. That's what they're fighting for.
Non-responsive. Re-read what you quoted and try again.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jun, 2006 07:20 am
Oooop, read to quickly. I see we agree on this.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jun, 2006 07:24 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Just thinking out loud, here...

But I think we may be wrong in the stance that those who've killed G.I.'s should be excluded from amnesty. We call it a war and we're talking truce... so don't you almost have to legitimize the killing of your enemy? Wouldn't we be better off if the Iraqis offered Amnesty to all who aren't guilty of crimes against humanity... in exchange for full disclosure and some form of future monitoring? Wouldn't we rather know who the killers are and have their agreement to stop killing, than send the message that they may as well keep killing until they can be identified and brought to justice? A soldier who kills his enemy isn't necessarily a murderer.


Just a quick question here .... the people labeled 'collateral damage', are they considered enemies?
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jun, 2006 09:26 am
I agree with O.B. - both of you.

Hi Ge-
Very ironically philosophical question.
0 Replies
 
 

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