THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

Yeah, they found degraded sarin and mustard gas - probably those the US/Rummy gave/sold to Saddam.

People trying to find WMDs are so despearate to find anything, they'll go to great lengths to shoot themselves in the foot.

Do you know what "degraded" means?

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HERE IS MY RECOMMENDED CONDITION FOR SETTING A DATE CERTAIN FOR A RAPID WITHDRAWAL OF USA COMBAT TROOPS FROM IRAQ.

As soon as any one of the following occurs:

(1) The newly elected government of Iraq asks USA to withdraw its troops from Iraq;

(2) A majority of Iraqi voters approve a petition asking USA to withdraw its troops from Iraq;

(3) The rate of violent deaths in Iraq per year becomes less than 0.02% of the Iraqi population (e.g., less than 5,600 violent deaths per year out of a population of 28,000,000).

WHAT IS YOUR RECOMMENDED CONDITION FOR SETTING A DATE CERTAIN FOR A RAPID WITHDRAWAL OF USA COMBAT TROOPS FROM IRAQ?

Currently the rate of violent deaths in Iraq per year is about 0.0857% of the Iraqi population (e.g., 23,996 violent deaths per year out of a population of 28,000,000).

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In other words, the US has no say on when we can pull out? We are now the subjects of Iraq?

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Quote:

The A-holes, even in great numbers, are still a minority and deserve more than a little disdain. Think clearly, absent pre-conceived loyalties (or lack thereof), and realize that those in Iraq that agree with you are not only your enemies and Iraq's enemies, but the enemies of civilization in general. Anti-torture and anti-terrorism should surely go hand in hand in any sane realm. But you go on aligning yourself with those who intentionally target innocents because of the statistics they produce, mostly targeting innocents... And go on thinking that makes you somehow superior because you would hear the call of the Zarqawi louder than that of those who risked their lives to destroy him and his ilk.

Sigh. This paragraph displays the idiocy the best, I think.

I don't align myself with anyone over there, and it is foolish to make statements such as this, comparing my desire to see the US end its occupation of Iraq with supporting Zarqawi and being aligned with terrorists. Pathetic rhetoric you've chosen to go with here.

Cycloptichorn

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Quote:

O'Reilly would run Iraq "just like Saddam ran it"

http://the-osterley-times.blogspot.com/2006/06/oreilly-would-run-iraq-just-like_21.html

A conservative spokesman????

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Quote:

Lieberman abandons the party again

The GOP opening remarks against the Democrats amendments to get out of Iraq were given by Joe Lieberman. It's no longer a matter of just not voting with the party, but he publicly opened the debate for the GOP.

John Warner:
"I'd like to now offer the first fifteen minutes [of my time] to the Senator from Connecticut"

Holy Joe:
"Mr. President, I rise to oppose the amendments introduced by the Senator from Michigan and others and the other amendment introduced by the Senators from Massachusetts and Wisconsin--I remember in that debate quoting the biblical wisdom in warning that 'if the sound of the trumpet is uncertain-who will follow into battle.' I suppose in our time we might amend that to say 'if the sound of the trumpet is uncertain-who will stay in battle"

Rick Santorum:
"...and if I could also associate myself with the remarks made by the Senator from Connecticut. I agree with them wholeheartedly. I thought they were incredibly articulately made and hits on all the relevant points as to why these two amendments should be defeated."

He's made a new friend today, Rick Santorum. Will he pitch in for Holy Joe's campaign?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

WOW! You know your at the bottom of the s*hit barrel when you make friends with Santorium.

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I see Congress is getting this right today. Good on them...

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cicerone imposter wrote:

In other words, the US has no say on when we can pull out? We are now the subjects of Iraq?

WHAT IS YOUR RECOMMENDED CONDITION FOR SETTING A DATE CERTAIN FOR A RAPID WITHDRAWAL OF USA COMBAT TROOPS FROM IRAQ?

Currently the rate of violent deaths in Iraq per year is about 0.0857% of the Iraqi population (e.g., 23,996 violent deaths per year out of a population of 28,000,000).

The murder rate in the USA per year in 2004 was 0.0055% of the USA population (e.g., 16,162 murders per year out of a 2004 population of 293,850,000).

If the annual violent death rate per year in the USA were 0.0857% of the USA population, then there would be 251,829 violent deaths in the USA per year.

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When:
1) There doesn't seem to be any hope of stopping violence by one sect against another in Iraq
2) When the living conditions for Iraqis only worsens day-by-day
3) We continue to lose our military men and women for a hopeless cause
4) When their "decmoracy" is a sham
5) Crime continues to increase in Iraq
6) Stay the course is not an option for most Americans

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cicerone imposter wrote:

In other words, the US has no say on when we can pull out? We are now the subjects of Iraq?

We're neither the subjects of Iraq nor the pawns of terrorist A-holes as Murtha and Kerry would have us behave. Today the Senate sent a clear message that no amount of terrorism will force us to set up a goal-line for terrorist victory. Well done.

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cicerone imposter wrote:
In other words, the US has no say on when we can pull out? We are now the subjects of Iraq?

OBill wrote:
We're neither the subjects of Iraq nor the pawns of terrorist A-holes as Murtha and Kerry would have us behave. Today the Senate sent a clear message that no amount of terrorism will force us to set up a goal-line for terrorist victory. Well done.

Come-on Bill, don't you know a jest when you see one?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

When:
1) There doesn't seem to be any hope of stopping violence by one sect against another in Iraq
Seem to whom there "doesn't seem to be any hope"?

2) When the living conditions for Iraqis only worsens day-by-day

For how many days?

3) We continue to lose our military men and women for a hopeless cause

Who decides the cause is hopeless?

4) When their "decmoracy" is a sham

Who decides their "democracy" is a sham?

5) Crime continues to increase in Iraq

For how many days?

6) Stay the course is not an option for most Americans

How shall that be determined (e.g., polls, voter propositions, elections, President, Congress, Supreme Court, dice, Dan Rather)?

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ican, But ofcoarse, you do! Who else can decide such subjective goals as I've outlined. They are rhetorical, after all. Maybe somebody in Bushes cabinet or some future president can decide those imponderables - within the next 20 or so years.

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Quote:

I see Congress is getting this right today. Good on them...

Bill, I haven't been on this thread for months. I just tuned in, and I am with you here.

I have been listening to the news stations here on satellite in Ireland and I am so fed up with the strutting and posturing of politicians. I can't remember when I have heard a statesmanlike comment from a front person of either party. They are all reactive. There is not an intelligent or original comment among them.

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From what I read there are many really knowledgeable and knowing persons on both sides of the issue of the invasion of Iraq. However, to read a2k posters there are only those that agree with my position and idiots. I find this interesting as well as depressing.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

ican, But ofcoarse, you do! Who else can decide such subjective goals as I've outlined. They are rhetorical, after all. Maybe somebody in Bushes cabinet or some future president can decide those imponderables - within the next 20 or so years.

Ok, I've decided your recomended, subjective, rhetorical goals are not decideable by me or anyone else. I've also decided that my recommendations are decideable. So I'll use them until and unless someone comes up with better, decideable goals. And of course, I'll decide whether any others are better or not. Cool

Now all we have left to do is figure out how to reduce the current Iraq violent death rate per year from 0.0857% to less than 0.02% of the Iraq population.

I've also decided one necessary step is for all those, who repeatedly proclaim the Iraq war-peace effort has failed, vacation without any communication capability for a few years on an isolated, previously uninhabited, beautiful pacific island paradise built on their recycled rhetoric. :wink:

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dyslexia wrote:

From what I read there are many really knowledgeable and knowing persons on both sides of the issue of the invasion of Iraq. However, to read a2k posters there are only those that agree with my position and idiots. I find this interesting as well as depressing.

What's your position?

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just read george f wills backpage editorial in 'newsweek -june 19' .
can't give you the whole article .
he states ... 'decapitating a regime can have large , immediate results , but no single stroke can cripple an insurgency that has no single head...
he mentions yugoslavia as an example of a state - similar to iraq - that was created in the aftermath of WW I from the shards of other empires and largely held together by force ... and finally montenegro just now completed the dissolution of that state by declaring independence .
he suggests that we see the
...MOVIE : THE BATTLE OF ALGIERS... ; it portrays the drama of a country torn apart by war - the algerian insurgency against french rule from1954 to 1956 .
he says : ... see the film now , as an antidote to excessive euphoria about the limited damage that can done to a decentralized uprising by even the killing of an important operative ...

he ends by saying :
'...the question of whether iraq has a future as a single entity remains open ... but last week chances became a little bit better because a sociopath has died ...

wait and see !
hbg

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They're a little slow in recognizing whats been going on for months - if not years.

US accuses Iran over Iraqi Shias
The US military commander in Iraq has accused Iran of providing covert support to Shia extremists in Iraq.
Iran equips and trains Shia militia groups, Gen George Casey said, adding that its influence had risen recently.

Although the US has no evidence that Iranians were operating directly in Iraq, Gen Casey said "surrogates" regularly attacked US troops.

The US has often accused Iran of aiding Shia groups in Iraq, but has previously offered little proof.

Speaking alongside Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld at the Pentagon, Gen Casey said intelligence now backed previous previously-held suspicions.

"Since January we have seen an upsurge in their support, particularly to the Shia extremist groups," he said.

"They are using surrogates to conduct terrorist operations both against us and against the Iraqi people."

Talks suspended

Gen Casey singled out Iranian influence as one of four major factors in the complex security situation inside Iraq.

"We are quite confident that the Iranian, through the special operations forces, are providing weapons, IED [improvised explosive device] technology and training to Shia extremist groups in Iraq," he said.

Training was probably carried out in Iran and possibly in Lebanon, Gen Casey said.

He suggested that Lebanon's Iranian-backed Hezbollah guerrillas were also likely to be involved in training Iraqi militias. Direct talks between the US and Iran over the security situation in Iraq have been suspended.

Iran accused the US of exploiting the issue amid continuing diplomatic wrangling over Iran's nuclear programme.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/5108496.stm

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How shall we permanently reduce the current Iraq violent death rate per year from 0.0857% to less than 0.02% of the Iraq population?

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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

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