CANADA'S NEW PRIME-MINISTER TELLS U.S. "TO BUTT OUT"

timber wrote : "The Blackhawk, BTW, happens to be the most successful heavy combat helicopter in history - its nearest counterpart, the Russian/ex-Soviet Hind, no longer in production, proved far less combat-capable."

i also understand that a hand-held rocket launcher (how much are they ? perhaps $500 a piece ? or perhaps even home-made ?) can bring down a blackhawk.
if we look back into history, we'll find that many heavily armed nations were brought down by much more lightly armed enemies.
hbg

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Hi pachelbel,

As much as I dislike certain aspects of the US, such as the Christians sleeping with the Republicans, the overly ingrained Industrial Military Complex, I would have Canada join the US in a New York minute. The artifice of the border, and the feigning of Canadian independence vis-a-vis the US are not confirmed by the socioeconomic realty of North America.

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Chumly wrote:

JustWonders

Fascinating stuff and it confirms my suspicions that genetics and diet etc. play a much larger part then the simplistic view of one heath care system versus another.

No economist or statistician has been able to detect a solid relationship between health care spending and lifespan in advanced democracies.

BTW...I've heard that Israel (which purports to be a Social Democracy) has a pretty crummy health care system, yet they live longer than Americans. Could be genetic....could be diet and exercise.

Japan's is the most like ours, and yet they live longer on average than any in the world. Sushi? Smile

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Hi hamburger,

It's generally been the case from a technological-economic perspective that a relatively simple and inexpensive self propelled weapon can be very effective against a more complex and expensive one. It was true in WW II and it is true today. In fact this has been the case for all modern mechanized wars.

That fact does not diminish the potential usefulness of complex weapons platforms such as submarines, fighter aircraft, air craft carriers and attack helicopters etc. all of which have, and will continue to be, very capable weapons platforms.

As to the moral ethical building, using and selling of US weaponry that is another issue entirely.

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Hi JustWonders,
I am Canadian and I get so tired of Canada beating it's drum as to how wonderful our health care system is, and how the US's is much inferior.

The propaganda here runs so thick, you'd think crossing the border would be a serous heath hazard. And if you do get sick in the US, you would be assured of a painful death with no medical attention!

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japanese longevity : i've read a number of articles that state that the longevity of the japanese can at least partially be attributed to a mostly fish-based diet, also there is very little fat used in japanese diet.
several studies have found that japanese living in the western world and eating a western diet (high in meat and fat), have the same diseases as their western neighbours, it is reasoned that it is the diet that makes the difference. hbg

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pachelbel wrote:

Well, for what it's worth, if America took the time to check a geography book (do they exist in the States?) they would see that the Northwest Passage- Arctic - DOES belong to Canada. Harper is right on and I am pleasantly surprised that he took on the US so soon. The issue is that fresh water will be worth billions, esp. as the glaciers melt, so naturally the US thinks they can just step in and take it. That's usually their M.O. Also, going that route saves time/fuel on large vessels, so he who controls that part of the world will naturally be quite powerful. Canada powerful? Time will tell. We certainly have the resources.

The right of innocent passage, by both warships and merchant vessels in international straits, even those that nominally fall within territorial waters is a widely recognized part of international maratime law. For example the Bahamas channel between Nassau and Miami is largely within U.S. territorial waters yet ships of all nations have the right of free transit - a right which the U.S. accepts. Canada believes otherwise with respect to the northwest passage and the Labrador Straits. The normal U.S. policy in such conditions is simply to ignore the offending claim and use the straits anyway. There are other such disputes in the world, for example that between Indonesia and the rest of the world concerning the Lomboc Straits near Bali. We, and many other nations, have been systematically ignoring the Indonesian claim since 1950. I'm confident we are prepared to to the same with Canada.

This issue has particular overtones with respect to U.S. submarine operations. It is an old issue and I doubt seriously that we are willing to compromise on it. Canada has far more to lose than do we in any confrontation, economic or otherwise.

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Chumly wrote:

Hi pachelbel,

As much as I dislike certain aspects of the US, such as the Christians sleeping with the Republicans, the overly ingrained Industrial Military Complex, I would have Canada join the US in a New York minute. The artifice of the border, and the feigning of Canadian independence vis-a-vis the US are not confirmed by the socioeconomic realty of North America.

Talking like a traitor to one's country

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Chumly wrote:

Hi JustWonders,
I am Canadian and I get so tired of Canada beating it's drum as to how wonderful our health care system is, and how the US's is much inferior.

The propaganda here runs so thick, you'd think crossing the border would be a serous heath hazard. And if you do get sick in the US, you would be assured of a painful death with no medical attention!

Just take lots of money.

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These two statements, at least superficially, appear to contradict each other. Whelp, do I go for a Hamburger, or a Tacobell (sorry could not resist).

tacobell wrote:

Japanese females have the longest life expectancy of all -- regardless of where they live (either the U.S. or Japan) and regardless of the health care system they live under

hamburger wrote:

several studies have found that japanese living in the western world and eating a western diet (high in meat and fat), have the same diseases as their western neighbours

But hamburger does not specify the longevity quotient, only the dietary changes re: disease. In fact hamburger's statement actually supports tacobell's views that the health care system plays a much smaller part than is commonly argued.

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Intrepid wrote:

Just take lots of money.

And join all the other Canadians down here looking for prompt access to specialists not otherwise available under Canada's socialist system of rationed medical care.

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Intrepid wrote:

Talking like a traitor to one's country

Yeah then what's with the 'merican quote in your sig, eh?

Intrepid wrote:

Just take lots of money.

Wha...and it's net net cheaper here? Nyet Nyet, comrade.

Show me how the US system costs more and delivers less; after all taxes, after inflation, after cost of living, in comparable real buying power.

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georgeob1 : i've seen more than one u.s. citizen post on a2k about the high cost(and for them unavailibility) of health care in the united states. i guess, they must be cranks ?
i'm also wondering why many u.s. seniors come to canada by the busload to buy their prescription medication here . cranks, more cranks, i guess. hbg

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georgeob1 wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

Just take lots of money.

And join all the other Canadians down here looking for prompt access to specialists not otherwise available under Canada's socialist system of rationed medical care.

You won't get an argument from me that a command driven economy cannot balance the supply-demand equation with the same degree of efficacy as a command driven economy

Given the caveat that very strong antitrust rules are enforced, and Chumly gets 2% of the gross.

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You are correct about the retail price of prescription drugs in Canada. The Canadian government has made itself the sole buyer and distributor of such drugs. It shakes down the producers with threats of early authorization of generic production, even of drugs still under patent protection. As a result of this organized piracy, U.S. consumers are subsidizing Canadians for the high costs of research and development of new drugs. So far we have been willing to tolerate it peacefully. We should impose a tax on the drugs of any producer that offers discounts to Canada that are not offered in this country. Because of the size of the U.S. market, the immediate result will be a tougher negotiating stance by the producers and higher prices for Canadians.

Canada enjoys a huge trade surplus with the United States - one that more than pays for a large deficit in Canada's trade with the rest of the world. For reasons I don't fully understand Canadians are given to rather loud whining over any setback, however small, in trade disputes with the U.S. The recent climax was Canadian indignation that the U.S. suspended the importation of live cattle after the discovery of BSE in a cow imported here from Canada. Never mind the fact that U.S. trade partners in Asia immediately banned the import of all live or processed beef products from the United States after the infexted cow was discovered - an ban that is still in effect. The damage to U.S. exports was far greater than that to Canada's, despite the fact that the problem originated in Canada. Somehow Canadians seem concerned only about the effects on themselves. Such childishness will eventually cause a reaction in this country and Canada will suffer for it.

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hamburger wrote:

georgeob1 : i've seen more than one u.s. citizen post on a2k about the high cost(and for them unavailibility) of health care in the united states. i guess, they must be cranks ?
i'm also wondering why many u.s. seniors come to canada by the busload to buy their prescription medication here . cranks, more cranks, i guess. hbg

I would not argue the cost and availability of services on the grounds of some complaining. Nor would I argue that the generic drug availability in Canada is a valid rationale for a full blown public health care system.

Why?

Because the difference between the two systems is that in the US, it is more of a visible out if pocket consequence, whereas in Canada it is more of an invisible out of taxes consequence. Also many people also tend to "forget" that the US does have a public system called Medicare, which is at a minimum an adjunct to private.

You can call me Chum & I'll call you Burger. Fish is healthier than meat Smile

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Quote:

The normal U.S. policy in such conditions is simply to ignore the offending claim and use the straits anyway.

I dont think thats the point. The Canadians would probably be quite happy for the US and other countries to use what may or may not be territorial waters. The point being made by the Canadian prime minister is to retaliate(?) against the arrogance with which America assumes that if we want it thats the way it will be and if you dont like it well just smack you in the mouth. Had the American ambassadore not make such a bald and arrogant statement I feel sure The Canadian prime minister would not have made such a fuss.

A simple request such as "You dont mind if we sail a few ships through the nortwest passage do you" would not have elicited a similar response.

I understand the pro american responses on this thread but they all smack of similar arrogance................
Rule 1. The boss is always right.
Rule 2. If the boss is wrong see rule 1.
and if you dont like it we will use our muscle.

The world seems to be forming a view of Americans as fat, lazy, rude, arrogant and insular. I know all 300 million cant possible be like that but on the evidence I have to hand its hard to argue against.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Such childishness will eventually cause a reaction in this country and Canada will suffer for it.

I'm telling mommy you said that........

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Chumly wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
Talking like a traitor to one's country
Yeah then what's with the 'merican quote in your sig, eh?
Intrepid wrote:
Just take lots of money.
Wha...and it's net net cheaper here? Nyet Nyet, comrade.

Show me how the US system costs more and delivers less; after all taxes, after inflation, after cost of living, in comparable real buying power.

C'mon. There is one hell of a big difference between quoting an American and selling out our country to them. My sig used to be "God Bless America, but God help Canadians to understand them." That great American, Setanta, accused me of U.S. bashing for using that. It seems that folks can pick what they want to try to make their case.

On the money issue,l you don't seem to understand that at all. And, don't call me comrade. In Canada most medical procedures are paid for. If you go across the boarder and end up in the hospital, you better have lots of money or be smart enought to take out insurance before you leave.

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dadpad wrote:

Quote:
The normal U.S. policy in such conditions is simply to ignore the offending claim and use the straits anyway.

I dont think thats the point. The Canadians would probably be quite happy for the US and other countries to use what may or may not be territorial waters. The point being made by the Canadian prime minister is to retaliate(?) against the arrogance with which America assumes that if we want it thats the way it will be and if you dont like it well just smack you in the mouth. Had the American ambassadore not make such a bald and arrogant statement I feel sure The Canadian prime minister would not have made such a fuss.

A simple request such as "You dont mind if we sail a few ships through the nortwest passage do you" would not have elicited a similar response.

I understand the pro american responses on this thread but they all smack of similar arrogance................
Rule 1. The boss is always right.
Rule 2. If the boss is wrong see rule 1.
and if you dont like it we will use our muscle.

The world seems to be forming a view of Americans as fat, lazy, rude, arrogant and insular. I know all 300 million cant possible be like that but on the evidence I have to hand its hard to argue against.

I believe you have missed the point entirely. The U.S. (and other nations) have the RIGHT under international maratime law for innocent passage of their ships through such international straits WITHOUT the permission or even notification of the Canadian government - PERIOD. We recognize this right in the Bahamas channel and in the Straits of Juan de Fuca below Vancouver. The dispute over the Northwest passage with Canada is over thirty years old now -- Trudeau started it long ago. We (and other nations) have been ignoring Canadian claims since then and we are prepared to continue doing so indefinately.

Canada has made very clear its indifference to U.S. security concerns. This of course is your right. However you should start now to prepare yourselves for more rigorous controls at our border.

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CANADA'S NEW PRIME-MINISTER TELLS U.S. "TO BUTT OUT"

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