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CANADA'S NEW PRIME-MINISTER TELLS U.S. "TO BUTT OUT"

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 12:05 am
pachelbel,

Remember the First law of Holes. "When you are in one, stop digging."
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 12:07 am
pachelbel wrote:
Ignorance is on your end, bud. It's Hapsburg, not Habsburgs.

Ehmm, no its not... the Habsburgs ruled the Habsburg monarchy ...

A great, academic information source about the former Habsburg lands, by the way, is the HABSBURG mailinglist, edited by Franz Adlgasser of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, Cathleen Giustino of Auburn University, Charles Ingrao of Purdue University, Jim Niessen of Rutgers University, Hugo Lane of Polytechnic University of Michigan and Jim Brown of Elon University. Always instructive reading, and good book reviews!
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pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 12:08 am
Yeah, good one for you to remember, george. So, did you stop digging yet?
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 12:08 am
Can I go now? Because if any more Canadians catch on that I like the US, they may reinstate the death penalty, or worse, flog me with wet beavers.


Smile
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 12:09 am
flog you with wet beavers eh?

doesnt sound too bad...
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pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 12:14 am
nimh wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
Ignorance is on your end, bud. It's Hapsburg, not Habsburgs.

Ehmm, no its not... the Habsburgs ruled the Habsburg monarchy ...

A great, academic information source about the former Habsburg lands, by the way, is the HABSBURG mailinglist, edited by Franz Adlgasser of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, Cathleen Giustino of Auburn University, Charles Ingrao of Purdue University, Jim Niessen of Rutgers University, Hugo Lane of Polytechnic University of Michigan and Jim Brown of Elon University. Always instructive reading, and good book reviews!


Got a dictionary? Or a wikipedia? It is the House of HaPsburg, with a "P". The Hapsburgs-Lorraine line ruled the Holy Roman Empire until its demise. I'll accept an apology after you've looked the word up. Got my encyclopedia here; doubt they spelled it wrong. Rolling Eyes
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Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 12:21 am
Actually, I can find it spelled BOTH ways! You're BOTH right!

Anon
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 12:22 am
pachelbel wrote:
Seems anyone outside of the US knows what is going on. The insular Americans don't have a clue, and that will be their downfall.......


Fanny Trollope's 1832 opus Domestic Manners of Americans opined similarly.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 06:14 am
pachelbel wrote:
nimh wrote:
pachelbel wrote:
Ignorance is on your end, bud. It's Hapsburg, not Habsburgs.

Ehmm, no its not... the Habsburgs ruled the Habsburg monarchy ...

A great, academic information source about the former Habsburg lands, by the way, is the HABSBURG mailinglist, edited by Franz Adlgasser of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, Cathleen Giustino of Auburn University, Charles Ingrao of Purdue University, Jim Niessen of Rutgers University, Hugo Lane of Polytechnic University of Michigan and Jim Brown of Elon University. Always instructive reading, and good book reviews!


Got a dictionary? Or a wikipedia? It is the House of HaPsburg, with a "P". The Hapsburgs-Lorraine line ruled the Holy Roman Empire until its demise. I'll accept an apology after you've looked the word up. Got my encyclopedia here; doubt they spelled it wrong. Rolling Eyes


Das Hause Habsburg....

I've often seen the Habsburgs being spelt with a "p" when in an English context. I've got no idea where that possibly originated, as the name of the family is definitely "Habsburg", and nothing else has been officially used. Ever.

And pachelbel, if you had really looked it up (as you claim), you would have found that bit of information readily available almost everywhere on the web. It's not nice to accuse others of being ignorant when one has not done one's homework....
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 10:08 am
pachelbel wrote:
Got a dictionary? Or a wikipedia? It is the House of HaPsburg, with a "P". I'll accept an apology after you've looked the word up. Rolling Eyes

Hee hee, like George said : stop digging when you're in a hole. Yes, I'd also already looked it up on wikipedia. You know what it says there?

Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habsburg

Habsburg (sometimes spelled Hapsburg, but never so in official use) was one of the major ruling houses of Europe.


Your turn ... Laughing
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 12:25 pm
Timber,

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 12:38 pm
pachelbel wrote:
Got a dictionary? Or a wikipedia? It is the House of HaPsburg, with a "P". I'll accept an apology after you've looked the word up. Rolling Eyes


Quote:
The name Habsburg is derived from the castle of Habsburg, or Habichtsburg ("Hawk's Castle"), built in 1020 by Werner, bishop of Strasbourg, and his brother-in-law, Count Radbot, in the Aargau overlooking the Aar River, in what is now Switzerland.


source: "Habsburg, House of." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2006. Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service. 5 Feb. 2006 <http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-32088>.

pachelbel wrote:
The Hapsburgs-Lorraine line ruled the Holy Roman Empire until its demise. I'll accept an apology after you've looked the word up. Got my encyclopedia here; doubt they spelled it wrong. Rolling Eyes[/color]


Quote:
The War of the Austrian Succession cost Maria Theresa most of Silesia, part of Lombardy, and the duchies of Parma and Piacenza (Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle, 1748) but left her in possession of the rest of her father's hereditary lands. Moreover, her husband, Francis Stephen of Lorraine, who in 1737 had become hereditary grand duke of Tuscany, was finally recognized as Holy Roman emperor, with the title of Francis I. He and his descendants, of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine, are the dynastic continuators of the original Habsburgs.
same source as above.

Quote:
Habsburg: The former Austrian imperial dynasty is named after the Havichsberch (Habichtsburg, first mentioned in 1108, founded around 1020), their ancestral castle on the right bank of the River Aare south west of Brugg in the canton of Aargau (Switzerland). The keep was also used for living accommodation and was extended during the 12th/13th centuries. Later, however, it was reduced again and the only surviving part of the castle was the western side, which had often been altered. The castle fell to the city of Berne in 1415.
... ... ...
source: aeiou - the culture information of the Austrian Ministry of Education
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 01:39 pm
Chumly wrote:
Can I go now? Because if any more Canadians catch on that I like the US, they may reinstate the death penalty, or worse, flog me with wet beavers.


Smile


Don't worry. We wouldn't want to waste any beavers. Laughing
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 03:02 pm
when i started the thread 'canadian prime-minister tells u.s. to "butt out" ' , i hardly expected we would be arguing about the spelling of 'habsburg/hapsburg' .
i feel like i'm at the united nations !
perhaps we should call on the 'blue-helmets' to intervene in a 'peacekeeping action' at a2k , since they now seem to have been assigned 'peace-making' duties more often.
i've been wondering how you tell the 'blue-helmets' to ensure others - combatting groups - are wiling to make peace ? do you bat the combatants over the head, so that now they'll see the united nations as their new enemy ?
the canadian troops being sent to afghanistan have been told, that their role will be that of 'peacemakers' and not 'peacekeepers' . the new canadian military chief (general rick hillier) has told the troops that they'll be fighting against some 'taliban scumbags' .
as a canadian newspaper editor said : 'i don't think the general realizes that the taliban are not considered 'scumbags' by the total population of afghanistan'.
even generals will on accasion still have to learn hbg
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 03:33 pm
hamburger wrote:
when i started the thread 'canadian prime-minister tells u.s. to "butt out" ' , i hardly expected we would be arguing about the spelling of 'habsburg/hapsburg' .


I don't think it was so much argument as nailing down the facts in the face of an overwrought assertion. I was the offending party who first wrote "Habsburg" here, but never thought the ensuing riposte very important. Indeed I tried, with the 'Law of Holes' bit, to let it end gently. Didn't work Too bad. Intemperance usually defeats itself, and this was a good example of it.

Perhaps all this points out a question that perplexes some Americans. Why are some Canadians, usually a notably good-tempered and agreeable people (if occasionally a bit self-righteous), so uncharacteristically ill-tempered and surly when it comes to their neighbor to the south? Is it a result of the "sleeping with an elephant" phenomenon that P.E. Trudeau noted a few decades ago? Compared to our relative populations and GDP, there is very substantial Canadian investment in and control of corporations operating in this country, and numerous Canadians have risen to prominence in our media and culture. Few Americans complain about that. However, the reciprocal processes seem to excite an odd, inexplicably intense reaction in Canada. Why?
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 04:56 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Perhaps all this points out a question that perplexes some Americans. Why are some Canadians, usually a notably good-tempered and agreeable people (if occasionally a bit self-righteous), so uncharacteristically ill-tempered and surly when it comes to their neighbor to the south?
There are number of common factors at work:

-University culture (do you know what I mean?)
-Misplaced nationalism
-Fear
-Ignorance
-Convenience
-Media hype
-Political expedience
-Defining the sense of the nation by contrast to the US
-Presumptions that Canada is peace loving while the US is war mongering
-A self imposed inferiority complex manifesting itself in the social sense through negativism to the US
-A political position due to rather ingrained socialism/communism that condemns US style capitalism
-And perhaps the oddest: history suggests that strife is often manifested not by large dissimilarities, but by large similarities punctuated by (for all intents and purposes) insignificant differences. These modest differences manifest themselves in an overtly negative fashion The Catholics and Protestants come to mind.

I could amplify if you wish. As you may know, I find the majority of the rationales without merit, and under even my modest scrutiny, have little or no basis, in either logic or fact.

You might also note that the Canadian compatriots who do not share my views have not specifically responded to any of my well laid out and logical counters, and have simply continued with their well worn rhetoric.

You will also find this same type of outlook in the Spirituality & Religion forums amongst many (most?) religionists and their firmly seated dogma.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 05:09 pm
Flame suit made out of wet beavers donned and ready Smile
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 05:25 pm
Chumly,

A very plausible list -- and one mostly arising from the defects of the human nature that we share equally.

I found your last entry most intriguing. i.e. ' ... strife is often instigated, not by large dissimilarities, but by large similarities, punctuated by insignificant differences.' True and nicely put.

There's a new element as well. After the fall of the Soviet Empire the West is less in need of unity. The United States finds itself in the habit of leadership, and, as well, often faced with the responsibility to provide it. A good deal of wisdom is required to distinguish between the two, and no doubt we have made our share of mistakes in this area. At the same time, it is simply the fate of leaders not to be loved by those who depend on them.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 08:15 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
A very plausible list -- and one mostly arising from the defects of the human nature that we share equally.
If you can't beat 'em join 'em Crying or Very sad
georgeob1 wrote:
I found your last entry most intriguing. i.e. ' ... strife is often instigated, not by large dissimilarities, but by large similarities, punctuated by insignificant differences.' True and nicely put.
Smile
georgeob1 wrote:
There's a new element as well. After the fall of the Soviet Empire the West is less in need of unity. The United States finds itself in the habit of leadership, and, as well, often faced with the responsibility to provide it. A good deal of wisdom is required to distinguish between the two, and no doubt we have made our share of mistakes in this area. At the same time, it is simply the fate of leaders not to be loved by those who depend on them.
Bite the hand that feeds you......
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 08:24 pm
chumly wrote : "Bite the hand that feeds you...... "

i wonder who is being fed and what ? oil and gas are mighty tasty these days . hbg
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