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CANADA'S NEW PRIME-MINISTER TELLS U.S. "TO BUTT OUT"

 
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 08:45 pm
bookmarking just in case I want to read 18 pages
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 08:49 pm
""Hate is baggage, life's too short to be pissed off all the time, its just not worth it." - American History X
Let love be the strength in your legs, And in every footprint that you leave, There'll be a drop of grace Rich Mullins"

while i'm more familiar with 'moon mullins' - often had to read the comics to ehbeth - i think you have a good message there ! hbg
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 08:51 pm
http://hometown.aol.com/jongie/Images/funMoonM.jpg

hurray for moon mullins !
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2006 08:54 pm
hamburger wrote:
i wonder who is being fed and what ? oil and gas are mighty tasty these days . hbg
I will speak to increased commodity driven inflation.

That is when Canada's overall stock market traditionally performs it's best i.e. when commodity prices rise faster than prices in general.

Both US and Canada's central banks are raising short term rates with that (at least partly) in mind.

What are my views on US and Canada's central banks being able to moderate and mediate inflationary trends through micro-management of short term rates?

..........you did ask, right?....... Smile

..........They cannot!........... Sad

They should leave rates relatively fixed, but slightly on the side of stimulus, unless extreme conditions arise, such as major stock market crashes, or hyper inflation, or hyper deflation.

Luckily US and Canada's central banks have no direct control over long term rates!

I contend in fact, that the micro-management of short term rates by US and Canada's central banks have actually exacerbated interest rate volatility, not moderated it.

As an aside the Canadian Central bank (some time ago) came out with the laughable claim that they were going to have an independent interest rate policy from the US. What a joke, and another example of misplaced nationalism, as both the US and Canada are intertwined economically as are their interest rates.

Of course Canada's independent interest rate policy from the US has come to naught, as any chart will show!

As Reyn would say:
Next question.........

As Chum would say:
'scuse the humor, it's a Canadian thing, eh
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Feb, 2006 12:54 am
I tried to read through the multiple pages of postings since last I contributed to this thread, but I will admit that i didn't give the exercise my full attention.

The flavor I got was a continuance of Canada is better than the the US.

Perhaps it is in a certain definition of what may be good.

The reality, of course, is there are some Canadians who have it better than some Americans, and there are some Americans who have it better than some Canadians.

The reality is also that America plays a tremendously larger part in the calculus of Canadian identity than the reverse. In fact, one might easily argue that America's identity doesn't even for a moment contemplate Canada.

This doesn't mean that Canadians, as a people, don't live lives that are much closer to the will of God than Americans.

By the same token, of course, just because Canadians have a set of peeves about America doesn't mean that they are morally superior.

Canadian jingoism is laughable. It is similar to a mouse telling a lion that it will kick its ass.

This doesn't mean that life in Canada is not preferable to life in America, but it does mean that Macho-Moose headedness is absurd. Only an idiot argues that America is not a super-power. This idiocy may comfort a Candadian chauvinist, but it remains idiocy.

The Canadian way of life may be superior to the American way of life. I don't think so, but that's hardly the final word on the matter.

Regardless, however, of whether it is important or not, Canada defines itself in terms of what America is or is not, and America ignores Canada in formulating the definition of its identity.

It is silly for Canadians to deny they are preoccupied with America.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Feb, 2006 06:49 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I tried to read through the multiple pages of postings since last I contributed to this thread, but I will admit that i didn't give the exercise my full attention.

The flavor I got was a continuance of Canada is better than the the US.

Why am I not surprised?

Canadians don't much go in for this breast pounding, "we're the greatest" nonsense that is the daily bread of Americans from kindergarten until forever.

It's sickening to hear every dickhead politician and newscaster end with a resounding chorus of "yay America!". It's not because it's about the US either.

It's that thinking level-headed adults simply don't do this. Would you ever do this with your children, tell them they're the best in the world to the exclusion of everyone else. What narrow-minded little citizens you'd raise.

And yet so many unthinking adults do this every damn day, day in and day out.

That these canucks were able to draw out of you three [were there only three?] slippery fanatics that the USA's sole rationale in foreign affairs is seeing that the USA's position is assured.

Not an unhealthy idea for any country, except, EXCEPT when it comes to the US, the price that other countries have to pay in terms of lives lost and damage done to their countries is a burden too large.

You all succeeded in showing us clearly that there is no altruism; it's a bunch of phony baloney used to disguise the damage you've done and without remorse, seek to do again.



The reality is also that America plays a tremendously larger part in the calculus of Canadian identity than the reverse. In fact, one might easily argue that America's identity doesn't even for a moment contemplate Canada.

Duuuuuuh, Finn. In fact, one might easily argue that America's identity doesn't even for a moment contemplate anyone or anything but America.

Canadian jingoism is laughable. It is similar to a mouse telling a lion that it will kick its ass.

Canadian jingoism doesn't exist. That word can be found as a dictionary entry for "America" or "The USA".

Regardless, however, of whether it is important or not, Canada defines itself in terms of what America is or is not, and America ignores Canada in formulating the definition of its identity.

It is silly for Canadians to deny they are preoccupied with America.

You are much much too full of yourself. There is no preoccupation. The concern is that you are doing much too much damage both to the world at large and to yourself.

There are many good things about the USA that all the world sees; there are even some great things but like a spoiled brat, you can't see all that is wrong, all that is evil within this much vaunted system.

Of course, this doesn't apply equally to all Americans. There are likely many who gag when they hear the oft-repeated stupidities. In case you haven't noticed, your popularity is hardly skyrocketing and if all you can offer to the criticisms of the world is that we can whip your ass anytime we like, then you've shown yourselves to be nothing more than a set of gangsters.

Is this really what you want for America? Is this really the shining city upon a hill?

God, we all hope not!



0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Feb, 2006 10:44 am
I really get a kick outta folks given to the notion The US needs to snap out of it, shape up, get with the program, be more cooperative, concilliatory, and get back to being loved as opposed to being regarded with disdain and suspicion. For over 2 centuries that plaint has been quite popular, even among some Americans, its proponents pointing to US arrogance as portending the imminent demise of US power and influence.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Feb, 2006 04:11 pm
'the imminent demise of US power and influence'

easy does it, there is no rush.
rome was neither built nor destroyed in a day. hbg

ps. timber : hope you don't take this too seriously. we do like to visit the united states and find pretty well all its inhabitants very decent and nice !
just two weeks ago we crossed the border into the u.s. to go for lunch in watertown/ny. the customs and immigration officer was kind - as usual - and wished us a good day.
(he looked at our passports, noted and pronounced the german names properly and with a smile said to my wife : 'hope he is buying you a nice lunch !').
(got some great shopping bargains too - it was still tax-free week in new york state). hbg
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 11:35 pm
JTT wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I tried to read through the multiple pages of postings since last I contributed to this thread, but I will admit that i didn't give the exercise my full attention.

The flavor I got was a continuance of Canada is better than the the US.

Why am I not surprised?

Why are you not surprised? Do you mean to suggest that Canadians, in general, do not believe that Canada is better than the US? You make these glib statements as if they are arrows that will pierce the hearts of your opponents, and yet they are simply flacid utterances.

Canadians don't much go in for this breast pounding, "we're the greatest" nonsense that is the daily bread of Americans from kindergarten until forever.

Meaning what? That they are "better" than Americans? Americans are passionate or arrogant, depending upon your point of view. Is this the means by which you would have us measure the relative value of Canadians and Americans?

It's sickening to hear every dickhead politician and newscaster end with a resounding chorus of "yay America!". It's not because it's about the US either.

Then why is it? Why do you find it "sickening" that someone might laud America? I can imagine why you might feel it to be silly or inconsequential, but why does it sicken you?

It's that thinking level-headed adults simply don't do this. Would you ever do this with your children, tell them they're the best in the world to the exclusion of everyone else. What narrow-minded little citizens you'd raise.

It's not such a bad idea to tell your kids that they are the best. You reveal a portion of your mentality when you add "...to the exclusion of everyone else." Somewhere, someone is the best it may or may not be America or your children but the best exists. This doesn't exclude anyone; anywhere from being one of the best. Even the most jingoistic American doesn't believe that elite members of humanity can't arise from or reside in any region on earth. Everyone, however, cannot be the best. This is not to argue that those who do not rise to the best are worthless or should be expunged. To suggest that there are not gradations of worthiness, no matter how one might define worthy, is idiotic.

And yet so many unthinking adults do this every damn day, day in and day out.

So what would you have thinking adults do? Tell us that we are all equal in every way? That would be a lie. We are not. Even in a society that truly embraces democracy, it is, by no means, axiomatic that we are all equal in every way. We may be equal in terms of how the Law perceives us, and we may be equal in terms of our ability to register a vote, and we may be equal in how God values us, but we are, by no means, equal in terms of intelligence, talent, or personality.

That these canucks were able to draw out of you three [were there only three?] slippery fanatics that the USA's sole rationale in foreign affairs is seeing that the USA's position is assured.

"Slippery fanatics?" What the hell is that supposed to mean? You are the classic disappointed romantic. You would have America be the Reaganistic Shining City on The Hill (while at the same time deriding Reagan), a nation that puts the interests of the world above its own. Fools! That will never, and should never happen. You get to argue that it should be because you live in a nation of plenty, but the minute that plenty begins to run dry because of altruistic efforts, you will be among the first to cry foul.

Not an unhealthy idea for any country, except, EXCEPT when it comes to the US, the price that other countries have to pay in terms of lives lost and damage done to their countries is a burden too large.

Of course. it's healthy for other countries but not your own. If you wish to wear a hairshirt, be my guest but don't try and make the rest of us match your wardrobe.

You all succeeded in showing us clearly that there is no altruism; it's a bunch of phony baloney used to disguise the damage you've done and without remorse, seek to do again.[/color]


The reality is also that America plays a tremendously larger part in the calculus of Canadian identity than the reverse. In fact, one might easily argue that America's identity doesn't even for a moment contemplate Canada.

Duuuuuuh, Finn. In fact, one might easily argue that America's identity doesn't even for a moment contemplate anyone or anything but America.

Perhaps, but so what? The discussion is about the inter-relation between American and Canadian identities. Do you mean to argue that the Canadian identity doen't encompass America or that the American identity does encompass Canada? That the American identiy may not encompass any other nation has zero impact on the fact that the Canadian identity encompasses America in a major way.

Canadian jingoism is laughable. It is similar to a mouse telling a lion that it will kick its ass.

Canadian jingoism doesn't exist. That word can be found as a dictionary entry for "America" or "The USA".

This is just a stupid comment. Of course there is Canadian jingoism, and it has been displayed repeatedly on A2K. You are allowing your bent distaste America to taint your reasoning.


Regardless, however, of whether it is important or not, Canada defines itself in terms of what America is or is not, and America ignores Canada in formulating the definition of its identity.

It is silly for Canadians to deny they are preoccupied with America.

You are much much too full of yourself. There is no preoccupation. The concern is that you are doing much too much damage both to the world at large and to yourself.

I am not America, and I did not declare that Canadians are too preoccupied with Finn, so whether or not I am too full of myself is immaterial to this discussion. Spare me the concern of the world about the execesses of America. Remove jingoism, patriotism, and nationalism from the equation, and only an idiot is more concerned about America's influence on the world that that of Iran, North Korea, Russia, China etc. This is not to suggest that all of America's actions are pure and altruistic, because they are, of course, not; but when measured against the actions of other nations, it is incredible that anyone of any intelligence would spend their time ranting about America.

There are many good things about the USA that all the world sees; there are even some great things but like a spoiled brat, you can't see all that is wrong, all that is evil within this much vaunted system.

Baloney.

I don't know how many different ways I can say that America is not perfect, before you will give up this nonsensical argument. America is not perfect.

This, of course, doesn't mean that America is not better than any other nation on earth.


Of course, this doesn't apply equally to all Americans.

No of course not. There are, regrettably, a vast number of Americans who are all too willing to dump on their country.

There are likely many who gag when they hear the oft-repeated stupidities.

Pompous idiocy.

In case you haven't noticed, your popularity is hardly skyrocketing and if all you can offer to the criticisms of the world is that we can whip your ass anytime we like, then you've shown yourselves to be nothing more than a set of gangsters.

More nonsense. First of all, America's popularity in the world has nothing to do with the righteousness of America. Denmark ain't universally popular right now, but what does that mean?

Secondly, who is responding to criticisim of the US with "We can kick your ass!?


Is this really what you want for America? Is this really the shining city upon a hill?

God, we all hope not!

I can understand why non-Americans would like to influence America. If Norway was the most powerful nation on earth, I have no doubt that I would like to be able to influence Norwegian policy. Sorry though, America pays a price for being the world's Top Dog. Whether or not that price is too high is immaterial to this discussion. The reality is that America is the Top Dog, and if you are not American you don't share in paying the price of achieving this status, AND you don't share in deciding how this status plays out.

It is always the citizens of countries who do not influence the world who bemoan the influence of those nations that can.

[/color]


0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 07:54 pm
JTT wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I tried to read through the multiple pages of postings since last I contributed to this thread, but I will admit that i didn't give the exercise my full attention.

The flavor I got was a continuance of Canada is better than the the US.

Why am I not surprised?

Canadians don't much go in for this breast pounding, "we're the greatest" nonsense that is the daily bread of Americans from kindergarten until forever.

It's sickening to hear every dickhead politician and newscaster end with a resounding chorus of "yay America!". It's not because it's about the US either.

It's that thinking level-headed adults simply don't do this. Would you ever do this with your children, tell them they're the best in the world to the exclusion of everyone else. What narrow-minded little citizens you'd raise.

And yet so many unthinking adults do this every damn day, day in and day out.

That these canucks were able to draw out of you three [were there only three?] slippery fanatics that the USA's sole rationale in foreign affairs is seeing that the USA's position is assured.

Not an unhealthy idea for any country, except, EXCEPT when it comes to the US, the price that other countries have to pay in terms of lives lost and damage done to their countries is a burden too large.

You all succeeded in showing us clearly that there is no altruism; it's a bunch of phony baloney used to disguise the damage you've done and without remorse, seek to do again.



The reality is also that America plays a tremendously larger part in the calculus of Canadian identity than the reverse. In fact, one might easily argue that America's identity doesn't even for a moment contemplate Canada.

Duuuuuuh, Finn. In fact, one might easily argue that America's identity doesn't even for a moment contemplate anyone or anything but America.

Canadian jingoism is laughable. It is similar to a mouse telling a lion that it will kick its ass.

Canadian jingoism doesn't exist. That word can be found as a dictionary entry for "America" or "The USA".

Regardless, however, of whether it is important or not, Canada defines itself in terms of what America is or is not, and America ignores Canada in formulating the definition of its identity.

It is silly for Canadians to deny they are preoccupied with America.

You are much much too full of yourself. There is no preoccupation. The concern is that you are doing much too much damage both to the world at large and to yourself.

There are many good things about the USA that all the world sees; there are even some great things but like a spoiled brat, you can't see all that is wrong, all that is evil within this much vaunted system.

Of course, this doesn't apply equally to all Americans. There are likely many who gag when they hear the oft-repeated stupidities. In case you haven't noticed, your popularity is hardly skyrocketing and if all you can offer to the criticisms of the world is that we can whip your ass anytime we like, then you've shown yourselves to be nothing more than a set of gangsters.

Is this really what you want for America? Is this really the shining city upon a hill?

God, we all hope not!






Good response, JTT.
Finn just doesn't get it. Their country is trillions of dollars in debt. I guess they measure superiority by - ummmm.....what? Finn, old boy, look up Bureau of Economic Analysis and Bureau of the Public Debt. That will show you that America is not, actually, on the top of the offal pile. Cool
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 07:58 pm
Because their outgoing exceeds their incoming. It's called a TRADE IMBALANCE, FINN. In other words, the spoiled obnoxious yanks have overspent their cheque book. They owe Canada $54 BILLION and Mexico $40 BILLION. Dare I mention the $900 Billion owed to China?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 08:22 pm
Hi pachelbel,

Well, the true "I owe" picture must encompass all Provincial and Federal debt in which case Canada far exceeds the US on a per capita basis, couple this with a significantly lower GDP per capita in Canada versus the US and the message is very clear, the superficial trade imbalance between Canada and the US does not tell the whole story by any means.

As to China v. US; the Chinese standard of living is abysmal as are the human rights, working and living conations. Anyone who believes that China can supercede the US economically while maintaining such low standards is in for rude awakening, as the Chinese people inflate / reflate both their expectations and their economy.

As to Mexico v. the US many of the same arguments can be made as per China, with the added one of an absolutely astronomical per capita debt as compared to the US. Again good luck Mexico overcoming those hurdles.

That is not to say that other countries cannot and/or will not be competitive with the US, but to presume that the US is in dire straighta because of shorter term trade imbalances, does not tell the whole story by any means.

Further, many of the economic benefits of China, Mexico and Canada are fed back to the US through the US's global corporations. All you need be is a common stock holder of larger US companies.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:05 pm
Its been mentioned before, without apparent effect (and I see no reason a repeat might change anything) - the US deficit, in terms of percentage of GDP, is well within historically proven sustainable norms, and is a lower GDP percentage than that of the deficits of a number of nations which take pains to point out the magnitude of the US deficit. Get real, folks: a slice of pie is sized relative to the overall size of the sliced pie. A pound of pie slice is a pound of pie slice, any way you figure it. However, a pound removed from a 5 pound pie puts a much bigger empty spot in its pie than does a pound removed from a hundred pound pie.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:23 pm
pachelbel wrote:
Because their outgoing exceeds their incoming. It's called a TRADE IMBALANCE, FINN. In other words, the spoiled obnoxious yanks have overspent their cheque book. They owe Canada $54 BILLION and Mexico $40 BILLION. Dare I mention the $900 Billion owed to China?


Somehow I am inclined to think that pachebel's motivation here is something other than a dispassionate interest in economics.

Just what is the source of all this bile pachebel? Did you have a bad experience down here or something like that ? Would you prefer we didn;t exist and that your southern border was with Mexico instead? Would you prefer a world dominated by China and India?

Criticisms of America such as those you ceaselessly offer have been a detectable element of European views and literary characterizations of the greedy, materialistic, self-centered Yankee for centuries. Despite that we have not fallen, indeed we have bailed Europe out of its political follies several times in the lact century. Moreover we both continue to prosper and remain a favored destination for immigrants from all over the world.

Perhaps you should consider the possibility that your views are a bit skewed from the reality of it all.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:39 pm
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:40 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Its been mentioned before, without apparent effect (and I see no reason a repeat might change anything) - the US deficit, in terms of percentage of GDP, is well within historically proven sustainable norms, and is a lower GDP percentage than that of the deficits of a number of nations which take pains to point out the magnitude of the US deficit. Get real, folks: a slice of pie is sized relative to the overall size of the sliced pie. A pound of pie slice is a pound of pie slice, any way you figure it. However, a pound removed from a 5 pound pie puts a much bigger empty spot in its pie than does a pound removed from a hundred pound pie.


I'll remember this economic flim-flammery when we start having to pay the tab! I should say, when our children start paying the tab. Since when does GDP have anything to do with the National Income? You know, things like taxes, etc. Interest payments have already shot up with minimal interest increases. Wait till interest rates get to where they should be, and indeed, where they are going!

One thing the Republican Party has shown us ... they don't really care if they bust the bank, just so they do it the way they want to do it!!

Anon
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:44 pm
Chumly wrote:


You have my respect, admiration and gratitude. . More importantly. you are free of some of the compulsions that afflict many observers of the world scene.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:47 pm
Anon-Voter wrote:
.... Since when does GDP have anything to do with the National Income? You know, things like taxes, etc. Interest payments have already shot up with minimal interest increases. Wait till interest rates get to where they should be...


Remarkable confusion and incoherence.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 09:51 pm
Anon-Voter wrote:
Interest payments have already shot up with minimal interest increases. Wait till interest rates get to where they should be, and indeed, where they are going!Anon
Short term interest rates are going up in many countries, it is not an US centric consideration. Short end rates are increasing due to central bank's attempts to stave off a presumed inflationary trend i.e. too many dollars chasing too few goods.

I assert that this inflationary-hawk-preemptive-strike against perceived future inflation is misguided and rates will stabilize and decline within the next 5 to 10 years. Further I assert we will see an inverted yield curve demonstrating that the long end of the bond market is in disagreement with the Fed.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 10:02 pm
Chumly wrote:

I assert that this inflationary-hawk-preemptive-strike against perceived future inflation is misguided and rates will stabilize and decline within the next 5 to 10 years. Further I assert we will see an inverted yield curve demonstrating that the long end of the bond market is in disagreement with the Fed.


I think you may be right about that one. Perhaps the Fed has been excessively conditioned by the experienbce of a ceneration, and has already forgotten its deflationary fears of 2001.
0 Replies
 
 

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