1
   

CANADA'S NEW PRIME-MINISTER TELLS U.S. "TO BUTT OUT"

 
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 12:40 am
dadpad wrote:
[qoute]If and when the US comes to call, what will Canada do?[/qoute]

Ya might just find Canada has a few more friends than dear old aging uncle sam.


Isn't this all getting pretty silly??

Anon
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 12:43 am
pachelbel wrote:
BTW I think it is very appropriate that America has, as its symbol, the bald eagle.

They feed off of the dead and dying and are considered scavengers.


Is that what you are - dead and dying ? I happen to be a great fan of Canada and Canadians, ehBeth is one of my oldest and bestest buddies ... you however, are just a touch irritating!!

Anon
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 12:49 am
Oh? So you want to take on 30+ million Canadians when you can't even support your own populace? Or the Iraqis who's lives you've ruined?

No thanks, we like our medical system too much and our superior life style. Quality over quanitity in Canada.

Don't want to be medical insurance-less like you.

Taking on a fellow NATO ally as well as #1 trade partner would be disastrous for Yanks. You have no conception of international relations, history or the security strategy of the US. Look up NATO.

Which is why Bush wouldn't even consider it: it would be an economic and political blunder of such magnitude that Bushie and his handlers would never consider it.

Don't fool yourself about your last statement - do you really, really think the rest of the world gives a rats behind what Americans think? People are put into the forced position of knowing what Americans think because of their insane, globalist, neoconservative idealogues, who pander to base nationalism, religious fundamentalism and techocrats as they work for the 2% who own 95% of America's wealth, by ripping Americans off with easy credit as well as the rest of the world's labour and resources.

You are important to yourselves but have not figured out yet that the rest of the world considers you (America) full of poo poo.

But you Americans provide Canadians with much humour, so keep it up! We laugh a lot at your silly ways- your government provides much material for our comedians.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 12:54 am
pachelbel wrote:
Oh? So you want to take on 30+ million Canadians when you can't even support your own populace? Or the Iraqis who's lives you've ruined?

No thanks, we like our medical system too much and our superior life style. Quality over quanitity in Canada.

Don't want to be medical insurance-less like you.

Taking on a fellow NATO ally as well as #1 trade partner would be disastrous for Yanks. You have no conception of international relations, history or the security strategy of the US. Look up NATO.

Which is why Bush wouldn't even consider it: it would be an economic and political blunder of such magnitude that Bushie and his handlers would never consider it.

Don't fool yourself about your last statement - do you really, really think the rest of the world gives a rats behind what Americans think? People are put into the forced position of knowing what Americans think because of their insane, globalist, neoconservative idealogues, who pander to base nationalism, religious fundamentalism and techocrats as they work for the 2% who own 95% of America's wealth, by ripping Americans off with easy credit as well as the rest of the world's labour and resources.

You are important to yourselves but have not figured out yet that the rest of the world considers you (America) full of poo poo.

But you Americans provide Canadians with much humour, so keep it up! We laugh a lot at your silly ways- your government provides much material for our comedians.



Red and Puffy, Red and Puffy!

Anon
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 03:24 am
If California were a nation, its GDP would be greater than that of France, if Texas were a nation, its GDP would exceed Canada's. While US deficits, both Budget and Trade, are at historically high dollar levels, neither are anywhere near record levels as percentage of GDP, and the US Budget Deficit not only is well within the average range for the post-WWII period, the rate of annual Budget Deficit Expansion is sharply declining. It is true The US is the planet's largest debtor, but simultaneously The US is the planets largest creditor. It is also true that The US is respository of roughly half of all Securities Value (stocks, bonds, and treasury notes) on the planet, and that the US Dollar and US Dollar Holdings are the underpinning of most of the economies on the planet.

Canada indeed is the largest trading partner of the US; 85% of Canada's exports (in 2005, $365 Billion, making up roughly 1/3 of Canada's 2005 $1.08 Trillion GDP) go to the US and 59% of Canada's imports come from the US. The 2005 US GDP was $12.77 Trillion (US tax revenue alone totalled more than twice Canada's entire GDP). 2005 US exports totalled $927.5 Billion (less than 14% of US GDP), 23% of which went to Canada, while US imports totalled 1.73 Trillion (greater than Canada's entire GDP), of which 17% came from Canada. The US is among the top trading partners of most of the nations on the planet, the major partner of many.

Canada's total Public Debt amounts to 68.2% of the nation's GDP, or 3.5% greater in proportion as compared to the US Public Debt total of 64.7% of GDP. For 2005, US economic growth was above 3.5%, Canada's was below 2.8%. Canada's per-capita GDP is a bit less than 80% of the US per-capita GDP, 16% of Canada's population is below the poverty line compared to 12% in The US, Canada's unemployment rate is 6.5% and recently has been increasing, the US unemployment rate is 4.7% and has been declining.


Data sources:
World Factbook
CanStats
OECD
US Bureau of Economic Analysis



Oh, a sidebar on Canada's National Health System - a quote from a 2002 study conducted by Canada's Frazer Institute:
Quote:
"Although Canada spends the most on an age-adjusted basis on health care among OECD nations [and fifth-highest in general terms], our system produces inferior access to physicians and technology, produces longer waiting times, is less successful in preventing deaths from preventable causes, and costs more than any of the other systems that have comparable objectives."
Source



When one is in a room with an 800 pound gorilla, one's opinion of that 800 pound gorilla has no bearing on the fact that 800 pound gorilla is the dominant presence in the room. And, while Canada is the second-largest nation in landmass on the planet, behind Russia, around to 90% of Canada's population lives within 100 miles of the Canada/US border. Whatever may be some Canadin's opinion of the 800 pound gorilla, an awful lot of Canadians choose to stay fairly close to the 800 pound gorilla ...
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 05:06 am
Gorrilas are an endangered species, mostly due to their inability to adapt as their environment changes.

To paraphrase the goon show...........

Have a gorilla

No thanks I'm trying to give them up!
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 10:32 am
Timber,

I think that us U.S. citizens are getting way too arrogant about who we are, and what we are to the world. I frankly think that we'll see China take our place within your lifetime. We are directing our efforts and our wealth into the work of making war. We are a war economy, which the right wing has converted us back to from a creative economy of the 90's. We are experiencing a hemmoraging of both brainpower and jobs from this nation so that our Corporations can look great on the bottom line. Meanwhile, they screw us from every angle to wring every dime they can from us.

We're letting our arrogance and our egos blind us from the disaster that is happening from within.

We're committed to continue to make war on others because that's the only real way left for us to make money.

We're in for a serious reality check, and it isn't going to be that long until we get it!

Anon
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 01:51 pm
Maybe that is why Canada is looked at differently by the rest of the world.

It is interesting that some Americans wear Canadian flag pins when abroad so that they get the respect they think they deserve. :-)
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 02:24 pm
The US never has enjoyed much adulation and admiration from "The Rest Of The World" - the notion that The US is today perceived globally much differently than elsewhen pretty much is specious. There have been a couple brief periods when The US was by many nations regarded as a savior, but those times pass with the passing of the emergency which brought them about and things return to the more typical.

Americans abroad long have affected "Canadianess" - since Canada rarely is a mover-and-shaker, rarely are folks anywhere agitated about Canadian foreign policy. On the otherhand, its pretty hard to pick a time or place that hasn't involved anywhere from some to considerable discontent with US foreign policy, for the simple reason that US foreign policy often has direct impact on the affairs of nations.

Pretty much hasn't been a time when observations re and predictions of America's decline and imminent demise have been widely popularized as well ... that such fails to come about, but rather The US continues to grow in strength and influence is the reality is just more instance of The US disappointing "The Rest Of The World". We can live with that - we're quite used to it.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 02:39 pm
Anon-Voter wrote:
Timber,

I think that us U.S. citizens are getting way too arrogant about who we are, and what we are to the world. I frankly think that we'll see China take our place within your lifetime. We are directing our efforts and our wealth into the work of making war. We are a war economy, which the right wing has converted us back to from a creative economy of the 90's. We are experiencing a hemmoraging of both brainpower and jobs from this nation so that our Corporations can look great on the bottom line. Meanwhile, they screw us from every angle to wring every dime they can from us.

We're letting our arrogance and our egos blind us from the disaster that is happening from within.

We're committed to continue to make war on others because that's the only real way left for us to make money.

We're in for a serious reality check, and it isn't going to be that long until we get it!

Anon


I agree with your statements. What will it take to 'wake up' the citizenry?
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 03:34 pm
timberlandko wrote:
If California were a nation, its GDP would be greater than that of France, if Texas were a nation, its GDP would exceed Canada's. While US deficits, both Budget and Trade, are at historically high dollar levels, neither are anywhere near record levels as percentage of GDP, and the US Budget Deficit not only is well within the average range for the post-WWII period, the rate of annual Budget Deficit Expansion is sharply declining. It is true The US is the planet's largest debtor, but simultaneously The US is the planets largest creditor. It is also true that The US is respository of roughly half of all Securities Value (stocks, bonds, and treasury notes) on the planet, and that the US Dollar and US Dollar Holdings are the underpinning of most of the economies on the planet.

Canada indeed is the largest trading partner of the US; 85% of Canada's exports (in 2005, $365 Billion, making up roughly 1/3 of Canada's 2005 $1.08 Trillion GDP) go to the US and 59% of Canada's imports come from the US. The 2005 US GDP was $12.77 Trillion (US tax revenue alone totalled more than twice Canada's entire GDP). 2005 US exports totalled $927.5 Billion (less than 14% of US GDP), 23% of which went to Canada, while US imports totalled 1.73 Trillion (greater than Canada's entire GDP), of which 17% came from Canada. The US is among the top trading partners of most of the nations on the planet, the major partner of many.

Canada's total Public Debt amounts to 68.2% of the nation's GDP, or 3.5% greater in proportion as compared to the US Public Debt total of 64.7% of GDP. For 2005, US economic growth was above 3.5%, Canada's was below 2.8%. Canada's per-capita GDP is a bit less than 80% of the US per-capita GDP, 16% of Canada's population is below the poverty line compared to 12% in The US, Canada's unemployment rate is 6.5% and recently has been increasing, the US unemployment rate is 4.7% and has been declining.


Data sources:
World Factbook
CanStats
OECD
US Bureau of Economic Analysis



Oh, a sidebar on Canada's National Health System - a quote from a 2002 study conducted by Canada's Frazer Institute:
Quote:
"Although Canada spends the most on an age-adjusted basis on health care among OECD nations [and fifth-highest in general terms], our system produces inferior access to physicians and technology, produces longer waiting times, is less successful in preventing deaths from preventable causes, and costs more than any of the other systems that have comparable objectives."
Source



When one is in a room with an 800 pound gorilla, one's opinion of that 800 pound gorilla has no bearing on the fact that 800 pound gorilla is the dominant presence in the room. And, while Canada is the second-largest nation in landmass on the planet, behind Russia, around to 90% of Canada's population lives within 100 miles of the Canada/US border. Whatever may be some Canadin's opinion of the 800 pound gorilla, an awful lot of Canadians choose to stay fairly close to the 800 pound gorilla ...


The US a superpower?????? Dream on, timber, or perhaps I should say, read on. Very Happy

February 3, 2006 by the Guardian/UK
Bush Just Has to Face It: He is Wrong and Chirac is Right
The crises over Hamas and Iran underline the collapse of the neocon mission and the end of a one-superpower world

by Jonathan Steele

George Bush's presidency still has three years to run, but this week's state of the union address had an unmistakably ebb-tide air. Its tone - "chastened, deferential, modest" in the words of the Los Angeles Times - suggested that the president felt the waves of power were flowing against him.

This is not the same as being a lame duck. The moment when second-term presidents start to face severe problems in getting legislation through Congress or convincing foreign allies to support controversial measures normally comes later in the cycle. The last midterm elections (in this case November 2006) are the usual peak before the White House incumbent's domestic authority declines. On foreign policy the slippage comes even later. It may be delayed as far as the final weeks of office, as Bill Clinton found when he tried to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians in January 2001.

Nor does the change in Bush's demeanour this week result mainly from fading support among Americans for what will be remembered as the central decision of his presidency, the mistaken war on Iraq. His unprecedentedly low poll ratings certainly affected his mood on Tuesday night, and one sharp-eyed New York Times reporter noted that "he smiled seldom and only winked once". But the reason for Bush's gloom goes much deeper.

Like missionaries who find that the heathens are refusing to be converted, he and his neocon colleagues are beginning to realise that their mission of freedom is not as convincing as they expected. It is also having unpredicted effects, forcing them to confront awkward choices: carry on elaborating grand principles, or adjust the message and feel guilty of sinful backsliding.
Bush's speech was remarkable for the number of times he called on his fellow Americans not to retreat, not to give up, not to succumb to pessimism, not to be defeatist. If his policies were not floundering, these pleas would not have been necessary. They were markedly different from the confident tone of last year's address, when he had just been inaugurated for a second term and the administration hoped that Iraq's first elections would bring the collapse of the insurgency. Now, after a constitutional referendum and another election, the attacks on US and British forces show no sign of abating significantly.
Bush insisted on Tuesday that democracy was still on the march around the world, particularly in the Middle East. He cited the polls in Egypt, Palestine and Saudi Arabia, though when he claimed that Iran "is held hostage by a small clerical elite" he seemed to forget that its president was also elected: he won in a well-contested race with a high voter turnout and no obvious frontrunner.

Yet, as one listens to Bush and his neocon team, their sense of frustration is palpable. They realise they have been ambushed by their own policies. Their zeal for ideological purity pushed them into positions from which it is hard to escape without looking as though they are betraying themselves.

Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, has made two difficult trips to Europe in less than a month. The first was overshadowed by the scandal over secret US torture centres in Europe; the second was meant to be a triumphant assertion of progress in Afghanistan, but turned into a series of crisis meetings on Hamas and Iran.

Rice pleads with Europeans to understand that a real war is going on and there are bad people out there. She urges us not to be complacent about terrorism and argues the need to make tough changes in our civil-liberty laws. She sees it as a success that the Bush administration has abolished the distinction between freedom fighters and terrorists. This means, she argues, that the tolerance shown to the Palestine Liberation Organisation in the 1980s, which allowed them generous time to drop their commitment to violence, cannot be repeated with Hamas now.

She fears that Hamas's victory will erode Europeans' commitment to the war on terror as they struggle to square the circle of continuing to help the Palestinians while calling on their new government to tear up its manifesto. The Hamas crisis is not just a foreign-policy dilemma. It is a metaphor for the brittle nature of the Bush administration's self-awarded global mission as it faces the contradictions of the real world.

The crisis over Iran's nuclear ambitions is equally significant. The post-cold-war era, when there was only a single superpower, is over now. The United States is being forced to enlist Russia and, to a lesser extent, China as partners in finding a compromise. With this, the economic rise of India and the resurgence of anti-yanqui nationalism in several states in Latin America, we have clearly entered a multipolar world.

No one in Downing Street or Washington will admit it publicly, but Jacques Chirac has turned out to be right. His global Gaullism, the notion that the world has several power centres, and it is no longer just "the west versus the rest", offers a more accurate picture than the image of the lone cowboy acting in the name of us all. The analysis is not Chirac's alone, of course. The French president is in most ways a discredited figure, little loved even at home. But he is the most prominent European to dare to embrace multipolarity as the new reality of international politics.

Leaders of the non-aligned nations have been saying the same thing for a long time, as have Washington's latest bugbears, such as Hugo Chávez in Venezuela. In his soft-spoken way, Kofi Annan has also been calling for a new recognition of the dispersal of international power. In a little-reported speech in London this week, he took issue with even the concept of a five-nation power centre made up of the permanent members of the UN security council. "Do not underestimate the slow erosion of the UN's authority and legitimacy that stems from the perception that it has a very narrow power base, with just five countries calling the shots," he pleaded.

UN reform is a slow process, and it is doubtful whether the new claimants for permanent security-council seats, such as Brazil, India and Japan, will get their way soon. But the trend is in their direction, regardless of whether it is formalised by the UN now or in several years.

So, Bush's frantic pleas to his American audience not to retreat are signs not just that his ideological simplicities carry less conviction at home than they once did. He has also begun to see that US power abroad is on the wane.
[email protected]

Ahhh, too bad. Americans really DO need a reality check! Hope it is not too much of a shock to join the 'rest of the world'. Laughing
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 04:04 pm
I underswtand its not something you'll understand or accept, pachelbel, nor will Steele and his ilk, but stand by for continued disappointment - the US that is is not the US you wish it to be, it never was, and it never will be.


And I understand completely why that irritates some folks. I'd say get over it, but that would be pointless; even after more than 2 centuries of failing to fail in accordance with the wishes and expectations of others, the US continues to fail to fail. One might think folks would get used to that idea, but it ain't a perfectr world, and folks will see what the care to see. One thing they will see for a long, ;ong time to come is that The US is the Mega Power on the planet - China, the only plausible contender for Superpower status, has dreams, resources, population, and potential, The US has all that plus proven capability. Should push come to shove vis a vis China/US, and I doubt that really will happen, for a variety of reasons, China will wind up on the roster of nations that made the mistakle of underestimating The US.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 05:26 pm
just a little comment on the u.s. / canada health systems.
from TIME almanac 1999 - infant mortality rates :
- united states 6.4/1000
-canada 5.6/1000
the canadian system doesn't seem to be too bad when compared to the united states. when compared to sweden neither the u.s. nor canada is doing well in its care for infants :
-sweden 3.9/1000.
(and there are a number of other countries showing lower infant mortality rates than the u.s. and canada.)
i think both the united states and canada show a dismal record of infant care. hbg
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 05:32 pm
here are some more recent statistics (2005) on infant mortality rates and life expectancy in selected countries.
i think these numbers give a fair idea of the universal healthcare provided to its citzens.

Country Infant
mortal-
ity1 Life
expec-
tancy2
Albania 21.5 77.2
Angola 191.2 36.6
Australia 4.7 80.4
Austria 4.7 78.9
Bangladesh 62.6 62.1
Brazil 29.6 71.7
Canada 4.8 80.1
Chile 8.8 76.6
China 24.2 72.3
Costa Rica 9.9 76.8
Cyprus 7.2 77.7
Czech Republic 3.9 76.0
Denmark 4.6 77.6
Ecuador 23.7 76.2
Egypt 32.6 71.0
Finland 3.6 78.3
France 4.3 79.6
Germany 4.2 78.7
Greece 5.5 79.1
Guatemala 35.9 65.1
Hungary 8.6 72.4
India 56.3 64.3
Iran 41.6 70.0
Ireland 5.4 77.6
Israel 7.0 79.3
Italy 5.9 79.7
Japan 3.3 81.2
Kenya 61.5 48.0
Korea, South 7.0 75.8
Mexico 20.9 75.2
Mozambique 130.8 40.3
New Zealand 5.8 78.7
Nigeria 98.8 46.7
Norway 3.7 79.4
Pakistan 72.4 63.0
Panama 20.5 71.9
Peru 31.9 69.5
Poland 8.5 74.4
Portugal 5.0 77.5
Russia 15.4 67.1
Slovakia 7.4 74.5
South Africa 61.8 43.3
Spain 4.4 79.5
Sri Lanka 14.3 73.2
Sweden 2.8 80.4
Switzerland 4.4 80.4
Syria 29.5 70.0
United Kingdom 5.2 78.4
United States 6.5 77.7
Venezuela 22.2 74.3
Zimbabwe 67.7 36.7

1. Infant deaths per 1,000 live births.
2. Life expectancy at birth, in years, both sexes.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 07:01 pm
Canada 4.8 80.1


United States 6.5 77.7


Yes, it says a lot about our national health care in Canada, doesn't it? As well as our affordable and safe drugs.

Thanks, hbg.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 07:03 pm
No argument the healthcare system of either nation could stand improvement. No argument there isn't much about any nation that couldn't stand improvement, when you get right down to it.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 07:12 pm
Physicians will tell you that infant mortality and life expectancy statistics have nothing to do with the quality of (or access to) health care. A better measure of a country's health care system is mortality rates for those diseases that modern medicine can treat effectively.

Also, infant mortality is measured differently in the U.S. The U.S. tries to save more preemies than other countries, and also counts as mortality babies who live only a few seconds, hence the differences in how infant mortality is measured.

But, the primary reason that the U.S. has higher infant mortality rates than other industrialized nations is due to low-birth-weight babies. The most significant factor for delivering low-birth weight babies is race, with African-American women delivering twice the rate of low-birth weight infants than whites do. This is true even controlling for education, income and age of the mother and true also controlling for number of prenatal visits. It isn't understood why some ethnic groups have disproportionally low-birth weight babies, at least not fully.

But, back to those diseases that can be treated effectively. In the U.S. the mortality ratio for breast cancer is 25% (the percentage of people with the disease who die from it). The breast cancer mortality ratios for Canada, the U.K. and New Zealand are 28%, 46% and 46%, respectively. Similar results for prostate cancer, which in the U.S. is only 19%. Compare that to Canade (25%), France (49%) and in the U.K. over half (57%) of men diagnosed with it die from it.

Doctors also don't put much store in life expectancy averages to measure the quality of health care. Japanese females have the longest life expectancy of all -- regardless of where they live (either the U.S. or Japan) and regardless of the health care system they live under. Blacks have the shortest life expectancies 68.4 as of 1999)...shorter than whites, Hispanics or Asians and while Canada's black population is insignifiant, they make up 13% of the U.S. population.
0 Replies
 
pachelbel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 07:19 pm
timberlandko wrote:
I underswtand its not something you'll understand or accept, pachelbel, nor will Steele and his ilk, but stand by for continued disappointment - the US that is is not the US you wish it to be, it never was, and it never will be.


And I understand completely why that irritates some folks. I'd say get over it, but that would be pointless; even after more than 2 centuries of failing to fail in accordance with the wishes and expectations of others, the US continues to fail to fail. One might think folks would get used to that idea, but it ain't a perfectr world, and folks will see what the care to see. One thing they will see for a long, ;ong time to come is that The US is the Mega Power on the planet - China, the only plausible contender for Superpower status, has dreams, resources, population, and potential, The US has all that plus proven capability. Should push come to shove vis a vis China/US, and I doubt that really will happen, for a variety of reasons, China will wind up on the roster of nations that made the mistakle of underestimating The US.


You are entitled to your hubris, Timber. One can see you're in denial. But that's ok. The world doesn't care much what you think, or what I think. Two percent of the US control 95% of the wealth of the US.

Altho you won't admit it, the US lost the War of 1812 as well as the Vietnam war.

Check out another revolution against a superpower: it was called the American Revolution. Whether it was Washington's scorched earth policy with the Indians of upstate New York, the Boston Tea Party, or tar and feathering English tax collectors, the insurgents also used TERRORIST tactics. There is nothing new under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 1:9). The average age for any empire is 150 years, except for Turkey, Rome, or China. Nothing lasts forever. Not even the mighty, powerful, US of A.

If you're ok supporting the military/industrial complex, feel free. Aren't you glad your paychecks go for purchase of more Blackhawks? Altho, they don't seem to stay up in the air too long......those dang insurgents just aren't grateful to be served American-style democracy on a silver platter, eh?

Sigh.
Cool Life's tough, when you're a superpower...... Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 07:42 pm
You're quite right nothing lasts forever.

The Blackhawk, BTW, happens to be the most successful heavy combat helicopter in history - its nearest counterpart, the Russian/ex-Soviet Hind, no longer in production, proved far less combat-capable.

And if your hopes are pinned to the insurgents, I suggest you prepare for yet further disappointment.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Feb, 2006 08:33 pm
JustWonders

Fascinating stuff and it confirms my suspicions that genetics and diet etc. play a much larger part then the simplistic view of one heath care system versus another.
0 Replies
 
 

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