Great relationship, poor communication

That would make sense to me.

That definitely describes E.G. and I, and it's something we've had to negotiate. We're both fairly alpha -- in our separate spheres we tend to be in positions of leadership, and we both have to make an effort to meet halfway and not be too dominating.

We email a lot during the day, which helps. We also tend to plot out what we'll talk about ahead of time -- we'll have conversations when he gets home that are about what important things need to be talked about and when to do it.

Before kid we would talk for hours and hours and hours, after kid we've really had to get more organized about it so we both feel listened to.

I would not force the issue either. Mr. Wolf will change his
habit of interrupting you and dominating the conversation
only if he is willing to compromise, and willing to listen.
Showing him how his communication skills could be changed
would be a recording of your normal daily interaction.

Do you have any means of recording/videotape one of your conversations?
Playing it back to him would probably be a more effective
tool in opening a two-way communication than criticizing him.

Remember, unless he is willing to change, nothing will happen.

HA!

yeah, actually that could be a problem.
Right now we have not found a good conversational middle ground..
When we do, i will have to stay aware of myself as a dominant figure in the gab section..

This is one thing I have been concerned about too.
I dont want an unnatural flow in our conversation to be

" hi how are you?"
" Is this a time for me to listen or talk?"

dont wanna sound like a robot. And I dont want to make conversation a thing he has to feel self conscious about . Though it will have to happen that way for a few times for both of us to re-learn how to communicate.



I do think that Mr is proball under the idea that ' If she wants to talk she will' . And yes, that is a true and reasonable expectation / thought process.

My issue is that I dont speak up. And because of that, things have gotten out of control. Throw in conversation domination and Im one frustrated momma.

I am going to talk about this tonight after Bean goes to bed.
Ill post a report in the morning , let yall know how it went and see if I handled it ok. ;-)

thanks everyone. This has really helped me a bit to be able to dump the problem and think about it out loud with some great ideas given to me.

Yes shewolf, frustration will build up if you don't speak up.

I for one have a tendency to interrupt people during a conversation
and either re-direct the topic or change it entirely. I'm quite
dominant and at a seminar, where we all were taped,
it was utterly embarrassing to see me interrupting and dominating my teammates. Even my body language was intimidating towards them,
and I realized I had to change my ways.

i think taping him is a good idea.
If he absolutly does not respond to a good "talking to' > heheh< this is a good second try tactic.
Im just hoping it wont come to me having to force my way into being able to talk .

i shall cross my fingers..

Yeh, that's pretty confrontational -- could work as a last resort kinda thing but seems like there are more resorts before that point that could be helpful/ proactive.

Good luck!

>sigh<
well, to no fault of our own, we didnt get a chance to talk last night.

MIL has been so wonderfuly human lately it is almost sickening. We have had a pile of clothes with no where to put them for a while now in the bottom of the closet and around the closet door ( yeah, icky )
So she offered her moms old dressers to us.
Catch? move them RIGHT AWAY.. so we spent the better part of 5 hours moving these heavy solid wood dressers out of a jigsaw puzzle of a garage, up the stairs, to only learn that we had to re arrange our existing furniture to accomidate them.
We didnt finish until almost 9.

I got up early this morning and began writting what i want to say down. Ill type it here when I am finished. I would appreciate the ' proof reading" hehe

This is one of those threads that percolate in my head even when I'm away from the computer. One thing I think is interesting is how even on this thread there seem to be a variety of communication styles, pointing up the fact that there isn't necessarily any empirical right or wrong here.

For example, I think the idea of videotaping is shockingly confrontational and counterproductive, and I think even just preparing a big talk on the subject is more than is necessarily warranted and possibly counterproductive, too. But it seems like what I find commonsensical -- just speak UP when it happens, don't have to be mean or testy about it, just hold your ground -- is itself seen by some as more confrontational than having A Talk about it.

I think what can be applied from all of that is not necessarily a specific course of action, but letting the course of action be informed by the realization that this whole issue can just be about different perspectives/ approaches, not Right and Wrong.

I mentioned this whole thing to E.G. last night, and included the stuff about there being a pattern in Mr. Wolf's family, and E.G. noted that it's even more likely that Mr. Wolf expects you to just interrupt if you have something to say, and that he takes it as a go-ahead if you don't interrupt. He talked to his dad, right? And what was the type of communication between him and his mom when his dad wasn't around? At the very least, if his mom was the passive one in both interactions, I think he probably doesn't think of you as being like his mom in that way, at all.

No sozobe, videotaping is neither shocking nor counterproductive. Actually, it is a viable tool today in
couple therapy and quite effective.



Source: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p010640.html

hmmmm, i think i'd be pretty hurt if someone videotaped me just to show me what a horrible communicator i am. if i was in mister's shoes (who probably doesn't know there is a Problem), i'd appreciate a talk-it-out, stop me when it happens way. he's not an enemy, right? he's not hurting anyone on purpose, so he deserves amicable approach, unless he will be openly unwilling to work on it, which is probably unlikely.

i don't think video or audio taping is a good idea without the consent of the individual being taped.

Yes of course, both parties have to agree to it, in order to
analyze it later and learn new communication skills. This
goes for both, as both as a couple need to see how their communication style is affecting the other, and what needs to be done in order to change it.

hmmm, i just wonder if the conversation would be 'as normal'. i am always aware of camera when it's on and behave differently.

dagmar, at first it probably will be awkward, but in time you'll forget the camera is there.

If shewolf were to interrupt Mr. Wolf every time he rumbles on about himself, he pretty soon would stop altogether communicating with her. Interruption stops the natural flow of a communication and if it happens on a regular basis, it is bound to be counterproductive, at least in my experience.

The only way I would use a video tape, is if Mister turned to me and told me that I was absolutly wrong and we ended up in a huge fight about it.
That is why i called it a secondary tactic.

but i dont expect that kind of behavior from him. Not in the least. It would surprise me if this isnt solved with a simple
" hey.. you know what dear? this is what I have been seeing lately......."

Contrary to his conversational roles, he is a pretty easy going shy man. not aggressive in anyway.

Mr soz ( for some reason that sounds funny) had said that -- E.G. noted that it's even more likely that Mr. Wolf expects you to just interrupt if you have something to say, and that he takes it as a go-ahead if you don't interrupt---

and more I think about it, I think this is exactly right.

His communication style with his mother before his dad died, and even now after words.. is sort of the way his father did.
He presents the conversation subject
he fuels it and he ends it.
No break to allow any other subject..

it is like listening to someones constant train of thought.
Wich is why I am a little uncomfortable with bringing it up WHEN it happens.
It takes Mr a good 1/2 hour to get his train of thought slowed enough to do anything other then talk.
What I am afraid of is that it would appear as an attack on the SUBJECT , instead of a concern, or an issue.
And its not the subject. Not at all.

hmm.. i think i will remember to say that to him too...

Shewolf, this worked quite well for me during the several crises that arose during my marriage.... At an opportune moment, I simply told Mr Kanaka that we had a problem and we needed to work it out before it got out of control. I always used the "royal we" as I saw any disturbance in our relationship as belonging to both of us and, in any event, accepting or delegating the blame at the onset always proved counterproductive.

He would, naturally, ask what was this "problem" I was referring to. I would give him the gist of it in one or two words, max, so he could spend some time trying to figure out what the problem was.(Sometimes this turned into a guessing game and could get quite amusing, which took the edge off.)

We'd make the time to focus only on that...by ourselves, usually away from the house and in a setting with as few distractions as possible. If appropriate in the circumstances, and for the less critical problems, we'd figure out a code to alert each other that the "problem" was rearing its head again without having to go into a big fuss about it. For us, humour and sensitivity to the other's "hot button" issues were key....of course that didn't always work and then the big guns came out...LOL.

Even during the worst episodes of my former husband's mental illness, this method worked to bring him back in focus and realize that what he was doing or saying was inappropriate and/or damaging in some way. It worked with me too when I went through a particularly nasty bout of depression...it enabled me to focus on "we" rather than just "me" and brought my spouse into the healing process as an active partner.

Anyway, just a few thoughts....

Of course, you can always just get straight to the point and tell him "Fahk...I like talk too awreddy!"

CalamityJane, I believe the technique can be effective and a time-saver in some situations -- I'm just questioning whether one of those situations would be the one that shewolfnm describes. If nothing else, if you are talking about it in terms of getting his permission first, how would the permission be gotten? Wouldn't that have to involve some sort of discussion of the problem? If so, it would already be a couple of levels beyond the current situation by the time videotaping entered into the equation -- and may already be redundant by then.

From everything said here, it really sounds to me like Mr. Wolf will be accommodating once he knows that it is a problem -- what I think is most likely is that there will be some sort of negotiation/ meeting halfway, rather than just him changing his behavior. That shewolf needs to make more of an effort to speak up, and he'll make more of an effort to listen; that he needs to leave more time for her to talk, but meanwhile she needs to still give him equal time; etc.

I just, personally, think this conversation is likely to go more smoothly (or perhaps be rendered unnecessary) if shewolf goes ahead and tries to be a bit more assertive (NOT mean, NOT rude, NOT interrupty, just plain holding her ground if she hasn't finished what she's saying yet) first, but that's just my own personal bias and ultimately what shewolf is most comfortable with is best.

You are right sozobe, I am a couple of steps ahead. First
a discussion about the communication problem has to take
place and if nothing is accomplished, or both revert back
into their old pattern and habits then plan B should be considered.

I have been thinking about the basic idea that people have given me in this thread and came up with , and actually have DONE ... a new idea.

Changing how I talk instead of " having a talk with him"

what mr-soz said has really hammered itself into my brain.

Truthfully...if i am just sitting there, quietly, why WOULDNT he think to talk? And keep up the conversation as is? Makes perfect sense to me.
It isnt at all about his........ wellllll... it IS about his conversational style..
but
more about my lack OF conversation style too.

50% 50% problem.

So, before I point out his 50%, im going to fix mine.

For an entire day , since yesterday afternoon, I have started conversations to things that I either needed to discuss, or wanted to discuss.
I added my 2 cents into his conversations and played a bit more of an active part instead of just waiting for a break. With doing that , I have more of an opportunity to interject what I want .


seems to be working?
Ill keep trying