Great relationship, poor communication

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This is a strange place for me to post , because i feel like it is crossing a privacy line for me. But , quite frankly, Im not sure how to address this problem.

Mr wolf is great. He is a great dad and a great person.
I have noticed lately that I dont enjoy talking to him as much anymore. And it took me a while to realize that I was feeling this way.
So , I brought up the issue with my councilor because, as most of you know, I am and have been sorting through alot of personal problems and I wanted to make sure that this uncomfortable feeling wasn't about ME . The last thing I wanted to do was be angry with Mister about something that was completely about me and my problems.
And in talking about it, i realized it isn't. It is his personality.

He has the 'dominating' personality.

Gosh, dont mistake that statement for physical abuse. Never in a million years would that come from him, or exist in our relationship.

When I say dominating , I mean.. our conversations are ALWAYS about him, and what HE is doing.
Even when I get out of my therapy session, and he asks if Im ok, I can tell him no.. begin to explain .. and he lasso's the conversation and shifts it to his computer, his game, his day.. HIS problems.

We have not actually SAT down to a table dinner all together in the last few months because he will talk the entire time about his gaming stuff. What he is doing, how he came up with ideas, how his friends react ..etc.

And he does this all day.

I can honestly say, 80% or more of our conversations lately have been about his computer work and his game. No matter the subject... for example last night.. we were talking about slap stick movies we watched as kids.
I got to talk about Tom and Jerry. I said that I never really liked them because they were violent and not too funny. He agreed, and went on to talk about what he liked, why he liked them, what else he has seen, how they played out in his mind ........etc. etc.
For 30 minutes I said nothing. The conversation wasn't AIMED at me..

Honestly, it feels like he talks AT me and not TO me.

The problem is that his father did this to his mother so much, when we would visit, the woman wouldn't say a word. All of his fathers conversations were about his music, his drums, his songs, his trips to bars to play.. And noone else at the table, or in the apt for that matter played any music. But that was the entire conversation. every time.
If ever you were asked " how are you".. anything more then a one liner was interrupted with drumming and a thrown in question about " What do you think about this new rhythm?"

Mister wolf has that same personality. And I need to start talking to him about it. I hated watching his dad to that to his mom, and here I am realizing im in the same situation.

Mr Wolf isn't RUDE per say... just an inconsiderate conversation piece.
If that makes any sense at all.

My problem is how do I say this?
I cant not use his father as an example. The way his father treated his mother has been a sore spot all his life. For the exact reason I am upset now. So.. how do I start saying this?
What do I say that doesn't make it a personal attack?
I understand this is just his personality and he doesn't MEAN to be so dominate, but bottom line, he is.

And I need to nip this in the bud so that we can begin to communicate on a more equal level then we do now.
>sigh<

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gee, that's a toughie. at least he's not into a2k, so he won't be reading this, right? in your shoes, i'd ask your counselor for advice on how to broach the subject. i think you're right in not bringing up the resemblance to his dad, at least not in the beginning. i'm wondering too, has he always been this way, and you just noticed, or has it recently gotten worse? if it's mainly recent, maybe he has some issues he hasn't told you about, and it might go away if those issues are resolved. good luck!

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Quote:

We talk about your work how your boss is a jerk
We talk about your church and your head when it hurts
We talk about the troubles you've been having with your brother
About your daddy and your mother and your crazy ex-lover
We talk about your friends and the places that you've been
We talk about your skin and the dimples on your chin
The polish on your toes and the run in your hose
And God knows we're gonna talk about your clothes
You know talking about you makes me smile
But every once in awhile

I wanna talk about me
Wanna talk about I
Wanna talk about number one
Oh my me my
What I think, what I like, what I know, what I want, what I see
I like talking about you you you you, usually, but occasionally
I wanna talk about me (me,me,me,me,me,me,-background singers)
I wanna talk about me

Hey Shewolf...

I don't really have any advice to give except for the obvious sit down and talk to him about it. If he wants to talk about him... talk about him talking about talking about him all the time. If you want open communication then talking about problems is a good first step. If you don't think that he will be able to handle a conversation like that then counseling would be a good idea for the both of you.

Hope you can work it out.

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Hmm.................This could be a toughie. It is very difficult to change a person's characteristic way of behavior. I know from personal experience.

Anyhow, have you discussed your convcerns with your husband? Can you tell him in a non-confrontational way, that you are really upset by this?

Don't accuse, and "own" what you say. In other words, instead of starting a sentence "You do this or that", instead say something like, "I feel very upset when I feel that I am not being heard". You don't want to put him on the defensive.

Another thing that you can do is appeal to his sense of manliness. Say something like, "I am having difficulty with .................., and I need your help to sort it out." Men love to solve problems for women.

shewolfnm - It won't be easy, but it is certainly worth a try. Good luck, and let us know how you are doing.

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Don't discount the value of humor!

Get yourself a timer and set it on the table. When he starts talking about himself, silently set the timer for 5 minutes. When it goes off, announce, "Okay, now we're going to spend five minutes talking about me!" (Laugh when you say it!)

I bet he'll get the point!

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I agree about getting advice from a counselor.

I can see that this could also be a matter of conversational styles, though. What happens if you say, "That's very nice, honey, but I wasn't finished talking about what happened at the therapist's today. I'm interested in the game stuff but WAIT for a bit, OK?"

It could be that he's just assuming that if you had a problem, you'd say so, and if you don't say you have a problem, you don't.

So I think I might try that in a low-key way before bringing out the heavy artillery. (Just, the next time it happens, and without any big preamble, say "Hold UP! I wasn't finished!")

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"It is very difficult to change a person's characteristic way of behavior..." what Phoenix said.

Mrs Walter knows that as well. And she did what soz suggested: "Hold UP! I wasn't finished!"

Such worked, at least with me .... and most times Embarrassed

(Not, that our situation was identical to yours: I just always "knew" what she wanted to say and replied to that Embarrassed

)

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Yep, E.G. is like that, too. I'm now very familiar with the expression where he blinks and puts on his "paying attention" face while what he wants to say is boiling his brain. (But he knows he'll get far worse than brain-boil if he ploughs on after getting an "I wasn't finished...!")

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Oh, didn't see the edit -- no, he usually wants to talk about something entirely different. (We went through a couple levels of this -- level one was him waiting when I wasn't finished, level two was him actually paying attention when I wasn't finished... he's gotten pretty good at it. Most of the time.)

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I'm gotten pretty good at it. Most of the time - Mrs Walter said :wink:

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i second what everyone said about communication styles. but i have misgivings about raising the issue directly because the behavior you described seems a bit extreme to me.

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yitwail wrote:

i second what everyone said about communication styles. but i have misgivings about raising the issue directly because the behavior you described seems a bit extreme to me.

and it feels extreme to me as well. Seeing how, I saw his mother become a 'mute' next to his father. In all matters. Mind you , his father was also physicaly abusive.. so that is a totallly diffrent ball of wax. But the communication styles are the same.

Yitwail-

Quote:

- i'm wondering too, has he always been this way, and you just noticed,

Yup. The only way I can work out this new 'discovery' is the ever so cliche-icky " Honeymoon is over'.
5 years later, little things are not cute.. they are personality traits and you accept them or not. Simple sillyness isnt always silly ness.. and reality starts to set in .
Yes. He has always been like this.

Phoenix-

Quote:

- Anyhow, have you discussed your convcerns with your husband? Can you tell him in a non-confrontational way, that you are really upset by this?

No. I have said nothing. THis is one of the issues I am working out with my councilor. I have to start changing my ever silent behavior. Start speaking up for myself and start talking about my problems instead of staying quiet. So, this is a new monster for me all together.
1) I usually DONT address small problems until they are suffocating. ( like now)
2) - I dont have practice.. so Im not sure HOW to do this effectively. The only way I have learned how to communicate is through confrontation because I could always use the excuse " I was pissed, I didnt mean to say that" even if I really DID mean to.

Sozobe-

Quote:

"That's very nice, honey, but I wasn't finished talking about what happened at the therapist's today. I'm interested in the game stuff but WAIT for a bit, OK?"

I have tried that before. I get the speech of " I was just trying to work out some problems I had with my game and really wanted your input. You have given me good advice before . I dont have alot of people to talk this over with . Jon ( his friend) isnt here and I just had a good idea.. " then.. blah blah blah for the next few minutes about his game and why he felt it important to begin the conversation in the first place.

It leaves me feeling railroaded.

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the really wierd part is the way he does it.
You can tell he doesnt think it is rude and it is just a conversation he is having.
He doesnt MEAN to be dominating, and he is a very soft spoken .. pretty shy person.
It is just a personality trait that is frustrating as hell! Laughing

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So what happens if you follow up? How far have you taken it?

Like, the above happens, and you say, "I'm happy to give you advice AFTER I finish talking about therapy."

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We have a saying at home. It's, "Lemme get a word in vertical."

The meaning, of course, is, your words are so thick and fast and close together, I can barely even get a word in edgewise. So I need to slip it in, thin and straight, like a single piece of paper among thick posts in a picket fence.

You still get your picket fence of words, but I have to have this piece of paper. And it can't wait until we get past the entire fence. Just a little piece of paper. Then you can get the fence back.

I tend to ramble and also pause, sometimes for effect or just to catch my breath or gather my thoughts, so there can sometimes be some collisions, but this does help.

Re your situation -- I think Mr. wolf needs to understand that when games are weighed versus therapy, discussion of games really has to take a back seat every time. It's not a personal thing against him. Rather, it's because therapy trumps games, and it would if the situation was reversed. Jillian trumps both, of course.

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Lots of good input here already, SheWolf. The fact that you are in therapy now means you're going to start noticing things you didn't notice before because someone is helping you to look for them.

I'm assuming Mr Wolf is supportive of your being in therapy, so perhaps you can make him part of the 'therapy homework'. I know it's not couple counseling where you would expect to involve him in the process but maybe things like, "My T thinks I should be more assertive when I have something I want to say". Then you can get the timer out and say something like, "I need to talk about me for ... minutes, and I need you to listen." Putting it in terms of your needs not being met might help him see what's happening.

I'm glad Walter posted his experience because it indicates that Mr Wolf possibly (probably) has NO IDEA that he's running you over on his way to getting what HE needs.

I also agree that the five/seven year itch thing is very real. All relationships have peaks and valleys. If you don't spend energies working through the valleys, the peaks aren't nearly as high and you end up just in the valley. Sounds like that might have happened with your in-laws. Don't feel that you shouldn't make this an issue. It IS an issue with you and it therefore needs to be an issue for both of you. That's the couple part of being a couple.

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Good point about therapy making you notice things. The impression I have of shewolf is that she is a strong, proactive woman who due to a lot of difficult circumstances has adopted passivity as a coping mechanism. I think she's starting to break out of that in a lot of ways, and this could be another one.

I would really be interested in seeing what effect just plain being more proactive and less passive here would have. My experience with men (well, anyone probably, I've only been in relationships with men though) is that if you label something A Problem it becomes much harder to deal with than if you just take a few organic stabs at it, see what happens.

If you really put your foot down and it continues, then I think it'd be time to get down to brass tacks -- but I'd like to see you put your foot down a few times first. Can keep it light, doesn't have to be intense, but "no no no mister we're finishing this first, then moving on to your stuff."

Everything you've said so far sounds like you've just kind of gone with it, and that he's not necessarily doing anything wrong if you're not indicating that you have a problem with it. The ability to read minds in a relationship is a handy skill, but in reality the communication has to come from both sides.

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Its been noted that the very things that attracted us to our mates are the things that willlater drive you nuts.

How is he in small groups. ? Like when you go out for dinner with another couple?

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In small groups he is ... ehh.. ok ? Not shy, not too outgoing.. just sort of goes with the flow.
He introduces the things he enjoys if it is a newer couple we are around. But for the most part, he doesnt take the role of conversation leader.

You are absolutly right soz. I am used to being more assertive. More verbal when it comes to what I want and need. And I am aware that this has gotten out of control due to my lack of speaking up.
In this household, a great survival skill is silence and passive ignorance. 2 things I have previously despised.
My therapist said pretty much the same thing you did and , that very night I drove around crying because it was embarassing to me for it to be SO obvious to someone else and not to me.

Since then i have decided that my first goal was to open up about what is going on with me and that is when I was slapped with the realization that I cant GET a word in edgewise.

I love the fence image Jespah. Perfect example.
In fact, I will use that , in my own words, to open up this big discussion with him.

Right now, I feel like Im going to approach him with such a big nugget of information that it may feel like a personal attack on him. Though that isnt my intention, I do worryabout it.
I can imagine how it would feel and Im trying to work out in my mind the easiest way to say it .

I figure it would feel like -
You are driving down the street, at the correct speed limit, with your seat belt on, no lights out on your car, no other traffic..just smooth sailing then
POW
you get pulled over by 20 cops telling you that you were doing something wrong. Laughing

I will leave out the referrance to his father. Though I wanted to use him and his relationship with his mom as an example, re-thinking that... it may be too rude and just overkill.

I dont want to do it in a conversation though.
Simply because , his gaming stuff is very important to him. He is creating a card game that has drummed up interest in some companies. I dont want to cut off that train of thought with the " you dont listen to me" stand point.
Im thinking, just approach him with it?

Maybe start with J_B's suggestion . " My therapist and I have been working on my lack of assertiveness lately. As hard as it is for me to do this, I need to start. I want to address our communication skills because , for you to help me get through some stuff, I need you at 100% and the only way for you to be there is for me to tell you how."

Then dive into the rail roading conversational thing... ?

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Reading along with no great advice.....

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Great relationship, poor communication

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