1
   

The downfall of America's society... what is the cause?

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:20 pm
echi,

Well, I for one believe America is in moral decline and quite honestly cannot understand how someone would think we aren't.

Mass murders, school shootings, paedophiles, serial killers, etc. Kids killing their parents. Everyone wanting to do what they want to do. The, "it's right for me" mentality is destroying this world IMO.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:21 pm
By the way echi it's not you or poet... just thought I ought to let you know.
0 Replies
 
PoetSeductress
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:22 pm
The downfall of America's society... what is the cause?
hephzibah wrote:
Yes I do. Smile Do you ride? How are you doing? By the way those rolly eye's weren't directed at you. :wink:


That's okay, I didn't think they were. Smile I used to, but things have changed a bit, and haven't had a chance. Growing up, I was around horses and rode them occasionally. But now if I were to do it, I'd have to go to a riding stable, and I don't like them because they won't let you run freely.

I like going out on my own across the fields, by myself or with friends, wherever I please, as fast as I please.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:23 pm
I know Hep. I HATE people. Ooh...God!
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:24 pm
I'm right with you on that one poet! Whooo hooo!

LOL echi... thanks I needed to laugh! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:28 pm
Yeah, Momma... I tend to agree. The whole world is swirling away. Just thought we could come up with some examples, some evidence to help make the point. Kind of like what you just did! I dunno... Somebody go find a graph or a pie chart, somewhere. Go on.
0 Replies
 
PoetSeductress
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:30 pm
The downfall of America's society... what is the cause?
Momma Angel wrote:
echi,

Well, I for one believe America is in moral decline and quite honestly cannot understand how someone would think we aren't.

Mass murders, school shootings, paedophiles, serial killers, etc. Kids killing their parents. Everyone wanting to do what they want to do. The, "it's right for me" mentality is destroying this world IMO.


I can't deny those specifics, MA. So I look for the things that are positive and focus on them. Doing this helps me to keep my perspective where I want it to be. This is because what we focus on most has a way of expanding. It doesn't mean that I deny the negative side by playing ostrich. It's just that I've only recently experienced for myself, the power of focus, and how it can actually have a profound effect on your personal world. Just imagine, the more people who do this, the gradual expansion of the positive would be massive.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:36 pm
PoetSeductress,

I'm with you there. I, for the most part, am a pretty positive person. In the hardest of times I can dig down deep in my faith and maintain a positive attitude. It's when I focus on the negative that it all starts to cave in.

I really do believe that people have just gotten too selfish and just don't care about others the way they used to. Sure, we can all come together during a disaster like Katrina, but why can't we do it everyday? The thing is, we can do it everyday. We just don't choose to do it everyday.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:37 pm
echi, I'm not concerned so much about America's "moral decline" as I am about its general cultural decline.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:39 pm
Hey JLN, how are you? Cultural decline? How is that different from moral decline?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:41 pm
Americans are inundated with warnings about the decline of American family values--we read books and articles about it, watch television journalists investigate it, discuss it at work and dinner parties. We've even invented a language to discuss it--deadbeat dad, latchkey kid, welfare moms, blended families, divorce culture. I'm nonplussed by all this because as a family historian, I realize that all the debates over family values are, to varying degrees, predicated on misperceptions, even distortions, of the American past. 

Most of the discussions about family values seem to center on how, since the late 1960s, Americans have dropped the ball, somehow failed where prior generations have succeeded. We're always harkening back to some vague, undefined halcyon days when families were always stable, always all the same; when couples stayed married, parents doted on children, and children respected and obeyed parents; when extended family members interceded at just the right moments (and never more) and everyone was happy and well-adjusted and loved.

We are not the first generation of Americans to convince ourselves that our families are in a state decline and disarray. In the early eighteenth century the Puritan minister Cotton Mather complained that "tho' the first English planters of this country had usually a government and a discipline in their families that had a sufficient severity in it, . . . the relaxation of it is now such that it seems wholly laid aside, and a foolish indulgence to children is become an epidemical miscarriage of the country, and likely to be attended with many evil consequences". In 1851 Horace Bushnell longed for a return to the family that lived and loved "all together . . . young and old, male and female, from the boy who rode the plough-horse to the grandmother knitting under her spectacles." In the early twentieth century, Teddy Roosevelt warned of an impending white race suicide and blamed it on "men [who] cease to be willing and able to work hard, and . . . women [who] cease to breed freely." In the twenties experts were convinced that the automobile was destroying American morality since it was little more than "a house of prostitution on wheels." And in the 1940s Americans were sure that "The old time prostitute in a house or formal prostitute on the street is sinking to second place. The new type is the young girl in her late teens and early twenties, the young woman in every field of life who is determined to have one fling or better."1

You see, Americans have always seemed to believe that their families were decaying, that the moral center had withered away, and that the current generation was working fast and furious to propel the next generation toward heartache and failure. But if so many generations of Americans were convinced they lived in an era of familial and moral decay, what then about the "good old days"? When people talk about going back to a more stable, successful time in family history, what exactly do they mean?

Surely they don't mean the colonial era. In Puritan New England fully a third of women went to the alter pregnant. Puritans believed that children were born evil, that they had to be compelled, often by force, to obey parental and societal rules. They ascribed to a child-rearing philosophy called "will-breaking". Physical violence toward children was not just acceptable. It was essential to combat their sinfulness and willfulness. Families were headed by strong patriarchs who ran the family like "little commonwealths," controlling every aspect of the lives of family members.

The colonial South hardly seems more inviting. In the seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries as many marriages were destroyed by death as by divorce today. High death rates meant that most marriages lasted less than twelve years, and at least 50% of children under age thirteen lost one parent. The death rates dramatically expanded the meaning of family. People welcomed into their families half-siblings, step-brothers and sisters, orphaned cousins, and a host of kin. Most whites married for wealth and status. As one South Carolina man explained "I am sure I want someone to look after my house and Negroes as well as any man. [Also] I have allied myself with a numerous and wealthy family--which enlarges my interest more ways than one." Southerners willingly admitted that in marriage, they "plumed themselves on rank and fortune."2

Throughout the colonies there was no public education, children were apprenticed and indentured and enslaved. Women faced a lifetime of dangerous, sometime deadly child-bearing. Even free white women could not own property, enter into any legal transaction, and were considered permanent minors, the property of their fathers and then their husbands. Women were not allowed to speak before men in church or criticize men publicly--those who did risked their reputations and even their lives. Apprenticed white women had even less voice. Their indentures forbade marriage and bearing children--an out-of-wedlock pregnancy extended their period of bondage and could be criminally prosecuted. Most African women and men were enslaved, sometimes forcibly bred, and had their children seized and sold away. All of this took place after a concerted effort of slave catchers and traders to separate families and communities during the middle passage in order to avoid rebellions. Who would want to return to this?

Source
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:43 pm
Ok here's some specifics from me... course I'm not in the best of moods tonight, but I'll try my best to be fair here.

The world is creating carbon copies. Putting beautiful, SKINNY, flawless, women on the covers of magazines, billboards, even online dating adds and such, creating this false image for teenage girls to live up to today to "feel" accepted by society.

The church is creating carbon copies as well. They are producing them in mass quantities actually. People who know the bible, but don't know the first thing about God or how He really wants us to live. So instead they just pound people over the head relentlessly with their bibles and tell them to "turn or burn". As you can see it's been very effective... Rolling Eyes

Then you've got the gangs... the thing I've heard most often quoted from them as to why they are so loyal to the gang is that the "gang" is their family. So where's their real family then? My guess is working, out with friends, who knows... anywhere but home... the kids can take care of themselves... lets just buy them a bigger TV and some more video games... that will keep them busy for awhile... Rolling Eyes

How's that for a few examples echi? LOL
0 Replies
 
PoetSeductress
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:44 pm
The downfall of America's society... what is the cause?
echi wrote:
Yeah, Momma... I tend to agree. The whole world is swirling away. Just thought we could come up with some examples, some evidence to help make the point. Kind of like what you just did! I dunno... Somebody go find a graph or a pie chart, somewhere. Go on.


Hey, echi, I though it was cute and amusingly masculine that you were grossed out when you found out DL was a man. Laughing You don't see that as much now, because it's politically incorrect. If you'll notice, Hollywood has even gotten the male actors to stand closer together, like the women do with each other, when they talk to each other. In their scripts, they even have them talking in a slightly more feminine manner.

I don't want to get into a debate on it, but I just wanted you to know that it was refreshing.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:45 pm
Momma, insofar as "morality" refers to religious tenets, it is only one aspect of a culture. There are also the society's, artistic, literary, political, scientific, intellectual, civic and other dimensions of its general culture.
0 Replies
 
PoetSeductress
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:46 pm
Re: The downfall of America's society... what is the cause?
PoetSeductress wrote:
echi wrote:
Yeah, Momma... I tend to agree. The whole world is swirling away. Just thought we could come up with some examples, some evidence to help make the point. Kind of like what you just did! I dunno... Somebody go find a graph or a pie chart, somewhere. Go on.


Hey, echi, I though it was cute and amusingly masculine that you were grossed out when you found out DL was a man. Laughing You don't see that as much now, because it's politically incorrect. If you'll notice, Hollywood has even gotten the male actors to stand closer together, like the women do with each other, when they talk to each other. In their scripts, they even have them talking in a slightly more feminine manner.

I don't want to get into a debate on it, but I just wanted you to know that it was refreshing.


CORRECTION: I meant, JL.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:55 pm
Oh, o.k., I thought echi was cheating on me with another man, named DL.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:57 pm
JL I thought you were a woman too... LOL Sorry about that!
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2006 11:58 pm
Actually, I'm flattered.
0 Replies
 
PoetSeductress
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 12:01 am
The downfall of America's society... what is the cause?
Lash wrote:
Americans are inundated with warnings about the decline of American family values--we read books and articles about it, watch television journalists investigate it, discuss it at work and dinner parties. We've even invented a language to discuss it--deadbeat dad, latchkey kid, welfare moms, blended families, divorce culture. I'm nonplussed by all this because as a family historian, I realize that all the debates over family values are, to varying degrees, predicated on misperceptions, even distortions, of the American past. 

Most of the discussions about family values seem to center on how, since the late 1960s, Americans have dropped the ball, somehow failed where prior generations have succeeded. We're always harkening back to some vague, undefined halcyon days when families were always stable, always all the same; when couples stayed married, parents doted on children, and children respected and obeyed parents; when extended family members interceded at just the right moments (and never more) and everyone was happy and well-adjusted and loved.

We are not the first generation of Americans to convince ourselves that our families are in a state decline and disarray. In the early eighteenth century the Puritan minister Cotton Mather complained that "tho' the first English planters of this country had usually a government and a discipline in their families that had a sufficient severity in it, . . . the relaxation of it is now such that it seems wholly laid aside, and a foolish indulgence to children is become an epidemical miscarriage of the country, and likely to be attended with many evil consequences". In 1851 Horace Bushnell longed for a return to the family that lived and loved "all together . . . young and old, male and female, from the boy who rode the plough-horse to the grandmother knitting under her spectacles." In the early twentieth century, Teddy Roosevelt warned of an impending white race suicide and blamed it on "men [who] cease to be willing and able to work hard, and . . . women [who] cease to breed freely." In the twenties experts were convinced that the automobile was destroying American morality since it was little more than "a house of prostitution on wheels." And in the 1940s Americans were sure that "The old time prostitute in a house or formal prostitute on the street is sinking to second place. The new type is the young girl in her late teens and early twenties, the young woman in every field of life who is determined to have one fling or better."1

You see, Americans have always seemed to believe that their families were decaying, that the moral center had withered away, and that the current generation was working fast and furious to propel the next generation toward heartache and failure. But if so many generations of Americans were convinced they lived in an era of familial and moral decay, what then about the "good old days"? When people talk about going back to a more stable, successful time in family history, what exactly do they mean?

Surely they don't mean the colonial era. In Puritan New England fully a third of women went to the alter pregnant. Puritans believed that children were born evil, that they had to be compelled, often by force, to obey parental and societal rules. They ascribed to a child-rearing philosophy called "will-breaking". Physical violence toward children was not just acceptable. It was essential to combat their sinfulness and willfulness. Families were headed by strong patriarchs who ran the family like "little commonwealths," controlling every aspect of the lives of family members.

The colonial South hardly seems more inviting. In the seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries as many marriages were destroyed by death as by divorce today. High death rates meant that most marriages lasted less than twelve years, and at least 50% of children under age thirteen lost one parent. The death rates dramatically expanded the meaning of family. People welcomed into their families half-siblings, step-brothers and sisters, orphaned cousins, and a host of kin. Most whites married for wealth and status. As one South Carolina man explained "I am sure I want someone to look after my house and Negroes as well as any man. [Also] I have allied myself with a numerous and wealthy family--which enlarges my interest more ways than one." Southerners willingly admitted that in marriage, they "plumed themselves on rank and fortune."2

Throughout the colonies there was no public education, children were apprenticed and indentured and enslaved. Women faced a lifetime of dangerous, sometime deadly child-bearing. Even free white women could not own property, enter into any legal transaction, and were considered permanent minors, the property of their fathers and then their husbands. Women were not allowed to speak before men in church or criticize men publicly--those who did risked their reputations and even their lives. Apprenticed white women had even less voice. Their indentures forbade marriage and bearing children--an out-of-wedlock pregnancy extended their period of bondage and could be criminally prosecuted. Most African women and men were enslaved, sometimes forcibly bred, and had their children seized and sold away. All of this took place after a concerted effort of slave catchers and traders to separate families and communities during the middle passage in order to avoid rebellions. Who would want to return to this?

Source


That's a typical response. I'm not surprised. Actually, pertaining to the topic of "American" culture, it is declining in some important areas. We are no longer the leading maker of quality products. Because of greed, this country now purposefully turns out cheap things that don't last long, just so you have to go out and buy it again, sooner.

Our public education used to be the best. Now it's downright embarrassing, compared to other major civilized countries. Families are churning out kids with no hope for their future, who have out-of-wedlock children, STD'S have skyrocketed, and our government cannot continue to be a cash cow for every leech who wishes to suck the teat of our mother country. Millions of illegals have been flooding in from the borders for years, now, to add to the list. And to top it off, more and more people are just not giving a darn about anything except for themselves. Bullying, ridiculing, and mocking is the order of the day, with the excuse that they are simply "stressed".

Frankly, I'm ashamed of it, as an American. Good breeding is fast becoming a thing of the past, replaced by rough, uncouth, low-class trashy behavior. Manners are not taught to children, because the parents are too busy working so that they can have those extra cell phones and designer clothes for the kids.

Hey, as they say, cash is king!
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Feb, 2006 12:02 am
JL, Oh really? That's cool. You seem really sensative, well from what I've read that you wrote... So I assumed... LOL you know though... I should know better by now. I haven't been right about one person I've guess their sex on! OIY!
0 Replies
 
 

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