Why the left cannot cheer this liberation

Wasn't it an United Nations-sanctioned military and humanitarian intervention in Somalia?

Walter - Are you saying the US was not there?

No, why did you get that?

scrat

The US was there. They were there late, with far too few resources, and then left, job undone. But that's ok...there being so many alternate examples of the US going in to help folks where corporate and strategic interests aren't applicable. Likely you can name a dozen such.

blatham - You stated your "thesis" that the US only gets involved where they have business interests and white people. I point out a case that proves your "thesis" wrong and you ask for 12 more, as if I didn't just show you that your thesis was wrong.

???

Blatham did respond, Scrat: "They were there late, with far too few resources, and then left, job undone." Do you dispute that? So how about some fresh examples?

Tartarin - Where did I write that blatham did not respond?

scart

Come on. Your claim is rather like saying that because one Edsel in North Dakota had only clutch and drivetrain problems that this is proof it really is untoward to suggest it a bad car.

And yours suggests that if someone offered you twelve more examples you'd actually consider them.

Scrat

Hell, I'd consider ONE good one. But the example you give isn't.

And it is counter-weighted by too many examples of the US operating in foreign countries in order to extract resources, or to utilize cheap labor, or to use property as a forward military position for Somalia to be anything even close to evidence that the US is out to do good in the world.

Where the US does good in the world is usually a matter of individual endeavor (doctors without borders) or is a matter of uninenteded consequences (some families increase their income though the employment of children working with caustic chemicals in Nike shoe factories).

So you really ought to drop this delusion that the US is an international Mother Teresa with golden heart. What the US does have going for it is all the people within who despise the ugly parts of America and seek to change them.

As the evil empire of the world, the US of A is no worse or better than any other country or government. Darwin had it right from the beginning; it's "Survival of the Fittest." Humans are animals, after all. c.i.

Bravo, ci.

That is what it finally comes down to -- the US is no worse -- NOR ANY BETTER -- than most of the rest of the world.

We act in our self-interest. And if occasionally the self-interest is hard to discerne, keep in mind:

Even the people who are acting ALWAYS in their own self interest occasionally have to detour into what seems to be altruism (read that Somalia, if you chose) -- in order to further their self-interests.

blatham - I don't recall referring to the US as "Mother Teresa". I do recall taking some specific positions on specific topics, and I suppose I can't stop you if you want to incorrectly infer all manner of other positions from what I've written, but I am quite sure I did not write that.

Of course, you are welcome to argue with statements I have not made and positions I do not hold; but although that is no doubt easier for you, it is not nearly as useful as arguing statements I have made and positions I do hold.

Frank

That is what it finally comes down to -- the US is no worse -- NOR ANY BETTER -- than most of the rest of the world.
Frank the US is a hell of a lot better than any nation on the face of this earth. What nation does or has done more for humanity than the US. The self hatred expressed by some people is amazing.

au, I doubt it's self-hatred that allows us to express our opinion about this country of ours. Most of us realize we are not a perfect union, and we have our strengths and weaknesses. It's all a matter of degree - isn't it? Our perspective about the US of A differs a great deal from somebody living in any of the under-developed countries. Mexicans risk their life to cross the border to look for better opportunities here. Who amongst us would do the reverse? Not many takers would be my guess. Yes, the US "is hell of a lot better than any nation on the face of this earth," because it provides us with opportunities not found in most other countries on this planet. I have traveled to over 75 countries, and I will attest to that fact; we got it pretty damn good! c.i.

au

Your "self-hatred" comment is so out of line -- I really won't even dignify it with a legnthy response.

I am as much a patriot as anyone else in this forum. I just happen to think that patriotism does not include blind endorsement of everything we do -- and I do not think patriotism excludes rational, considered criticism.

If you want to define patriotism as someone like yourself who mouths platitudes like "...the US is a hell of a lot better than any nation on the face of this earth..." do so. I prefer to think I can be patriotic and still criticize my country -- and still put my humanity before my citizenship.

Frank, Bravo! c.i.

I think I know where you're coming from, and if so, then I agree. As opposed to "my country", though, I believe I would say that I citicize particular individuals ,policies, or conditions pertinent to my country. On the whole, I gotta say I'm uninclined to criticize or malign "my country", whatever I may say about its prominent figures, politics, diplomacy, trade, or economic engine.

timber, It seems to me that that is self-evident. Without the people involved, "my country" has no meaning. c.i.

I'm inclined to say "my country" when so many of my countrymen seem to turn a blind eye to corruption and lies.