Why the left cannot cheer this liberation

Y'all are on the wrong thread, guys.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7592&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=170

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america, the greatest country?
Undoubtedly so, if the criteria is weaponry of mass-disfigurement and murder.

By any other meaningful criteria (literature, art, food, architecture, film, access to health care, fewest citizens in poverty, regard for the environment, etc) we rank at the bottom of the barrel among western developed nations--a global laughingstock of zero lasting importance, currently under long-overdue assault by those it has victimized since its ill-considered inception. America is worthless. Evil or Very Mad

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Almost, Henry (and a doleful welcome to you!) How the heck do you think we got this way -- I say "we" because we did it collectively.

Also I'd make exceptions in the areas of art (fine and performance) and music...

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clowns/photosynthesis
Hi tartarin

Photographing native grasses sounds like precisely the sort of activity I would do well to immerse myself in obsessively as an antidote to America: superfund site posing as a nation, leaking viral coffin, Nazi state without a Wagner, disgrace!

Anti-Americanism has become a moral imperitive. Once this absurd pigsty is dashed to pieces we can begin to build something worthy of thinking men and women. The alternatives are too dreadful to contemplate.

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Re: america, the greatest country?

henrygreen wrote:

Undoubtedly so, if the criteria is weaponry of mass-disfigurement and murder.

By any other meaningful criteria (literature, art, food, architecture, film, access to health care, fewest citizens in poverty, regard for the environment, etc) we rank at the bottom of the barrel among western developed nations--a global laughingstock of zero lasting importance, currently under long-overdue assault by those it has victimized since its ill-considered inception. America is worthless.

Although I have occasionally been accused of America bashing -- I gotta tell you that are all wet, Henry.

There's plenty to find wrong with America and Americans -- but anyone who finds only worthlessness and evil is probably working with only half his/her wits -- which means there is only a quarter wit being brought to bear.

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Frank Apisa
Thanks. If the US is so abhorrent to individuals such as henrygreen why would they want to remain in this nation. I would gladly chip in for a one way ticket out.

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ah yes--the old "love it or leave it" gambit--haven't heard that one since the McCarthy era. I will of course, CONTINUE to rub your nose in this lousy country of murderous filth which the world has rightly turned its attention to demolishing before it can cause any more harm. It will be a pleasure to see it destroyed and speedily forgotten, as it never managed to rise to the level of genuine civilization.

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henrygreen, You're probably not too well informed on the US's military and economic powers. I'm afraid your "pleasure at seeing it destroyed" will not be during your or my lifetime. c.i.

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CI

America's economic power is waning. Its military power was pathetically impotent during 9/11 and will continue to be a costly embarrassment during future, more lethal assaults on this catastrophe of a nation. America's demise will probably not come in our lifetime, though no one can speak definitively on that subject and I prefer to remain optimistic.

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henrygreen, All the economies of the world are waning, or haven't you noticed? We don't fight terrorism such as 9-11 with "military power." You do it with intelligence and world cooperation to which I must admit GWBush has bungled the job. c.i.

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CI

You are playing into the Bush mentality of 'war on terrorism'

The whole thing is nonsense. I don't see the Danes, cowering in their coffeehouses, afraid of terrorists. Madrid is not on "high alert", nor is Paris, Stockholm or Lisbon.

The only anti-terror measure with a ghost of a chance of yielding results is for America to acknowledge its despicable crimes against humanity and change its policies, which have left millions murdered and many more relegated to permanent misery. Ditto for the Israeli Nazis. The solution is (and always HAS been) a simple one: get the hell off other people's land and stop abusing them.

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henrygreen, I've never been in Bush's mentality. It's obvious that you haven't read my posts on A2K. I do not cower, and travel freely almost to any destination in this world. I'm not so dumb as to consider the "hot spots" in this world for travel, although I've come pretty close several times during the past 2-3 years. I've never approved of this administration in 99 percent of what they have done or are doing, so I don't need any preaching from you. c.i.

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CI

Sorry if my post came off as preaching--that wasn't my intention.

As to this administration, abominable as they are, we ought to recognize the fact they are working from a script which has been largely in place for a very long time. They are more arrogant, more brazen in their contempt for the rule of law but I see this as a quantitative difference. We shouldn't overstate Bush's significance, though he is surely a monster. We have very deep problems which are not about to go away through another absurd electoral cycle or debased New Hampshire primary.

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henrygreen-
Israeli Nazi is very offensive terminology to me.
It shouldn't be forgotten that they are responding to murderous attacks. They are not warlike in a vaccuum.

I realize we can go back to the beginning of time to cast blame--but I think it is terribly unfair to villify the Israelis as Nazis, as if they aren't almost daily victimized by Palestinians.

Of course, now that I have read back and see you'd like America destroyed, I guess my question is: What country is worthy of your favor, and why haven't you relocated there? It is hard to imagine despising a country to the point of wanting to see it destroyed, and remaining a citizen of that country. No "Love it or leave it". A sincere question.

Would you take action to hasten America's destruction?

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Henry

Like ci I have no love whatsoever for the present administration or its policies -- and I am certainly aware of the many negatives that accrue to our country and our conduct.

But you, my friend, are way, way over the line.

This country, like it or not, is engaged in an experiment in freedom that has not seen its like at any other time or in any other place on this planet. And we are doing an excellent job of it.

We have plenty to merit justifiable pride.

Frankly, I think your screeds are the product of a childish mindset.

Get with the program.

You are an American. Find something to be proud of -- and, unless you are an blithering idiot, start thinking in terms of how we can improve ourselves rather than wishing carnage on us.

Said another way: Grow up!

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frank

Would you advise Germans to "grow up and take pride" in their country under national socialism?

You're being absurd, while soft-peddling America's abominable massacres and assorted crimes. This is a terrible disservice to our victims. It is a form of holocaust denial.

Sofia

I first heard the term "jewish nazis" from norman finkelstein, the great scholar of Zionism, whose parents were both holocaust survivors. Many other learned and conscientious Jews and others worldwide have denounced Isreal's sickening, totally unjustified cruelty toward the Palestinians, including Ha'aretz, Israel's human rights organization Bt'selem, over 1000 IDF refusnics, Amnesty Intl, the UN and the Red Cross.

"Meanwhile, the Portuguese Nobel laureate in literature, Jose Saramago, invoked the "spirit of Auschwitz" in depicting the horrors inflicted by Israel, while a Belgian parliamentarian avowed that Israel was "making a concentration camp out of the West Bank." (The Observer, 7 April 2002) Israelis across the political spectrum recoil in outrage at such comparisons. Yet, if Israelis don't want to stand accused of being Nazis they should simply stop acting like Nazis."

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/id122.htm

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henrygreen wrote:

frank

Would you advise Germans to "grow up and take pride" in their country under national socialism?

I'm sure you intended to put that in the past tense rather than present. And no, I would not have councelled growing up and taking pride in Naziism -- but maybe I would have councelled growing up and taking their country back from the Nazi usurpers.

What I would not have done -- especially if I had been a German living in Germany at the time -- was to wish destruction on my country. But that is probably because I am an adult and am able to think as an adult.

That is a trick, I'm guessing, you'll master at some point.

Quote:

You're being absurd, while soft-peddling America's abominable massacres and assorted crimes. This is a terrible disservice to our victims. It is a form of holocaust denial.

No, I am not being absurd -- although that really is an excellent word to use to describe your postings on this issue.

You obviously have not been around A2K much, or you would not accuse me of soft-peddling anything about American conduct. But because I find fault with some of the things our country does, does not mean I cannot find many laudable things about it. And it certainly doesn't mean that I want to wish destruction on it.

Sofia and I don't agree on much, but I certainly agree with what she said about your use of Nazi and holocaust in these terms.

Once again. Grow up!

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frank

Glad your postings provide you an opportunity for smugness and fuel your sense of superiority. not everyone can be as "grown up" and mature as you. (By the way--your flag-waving apologetics lack much in the way of factual underpinning. On what plausable grounds is America superior to--oh let's say her current nemesis, France? Cleaner, safer cities? Less crime? Better access to health care? Fewer citizens in poverty and hopelessness? Better food? Music? Architecture? Better leaders? Absurd is exactly the word for what you are peddling!

Germany WAS destroyed in order to halt its murderous advance and there were INDEED Germans who felt their country had reached such a state of debauchery that such extreme measures were warranted.

As to the use of 'holocaust' and "nazism", I provided several illustrative quotes and could happily provide others. Mandella and Tutu both refer to Israel's disgusting perversions in the occupied territories as "apartheid"--a subject they are more than qualified to speak about. I'm Jewish, by the way--but even if I weren't, I would not be intimidated by Zionist nonsense and the instinct to cover Israel's crimes by reverting to the Jews' unique victimhood. It's repulsive.

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henrygreen wrote:

frank

Glad your postings provide you an opportunity for smugness and fuel your sense of superiority. not everyone can be as "grown up" and mature as you.

That's true, but almost anyone can be grown up and mature enough not to talk and act like a child -- which you are insisting on doing.

Quote:

(By the way--your flag-waving apologetics lack much in the way of factual underpinning. On what plausable grounds is America superior to--oh let's say her current nemesis, France?

In no way that I can think of -- and I have said as much in another A2K thread recently.

But why are you suggesting that I would think that? Could it be that you are unable to deal reasonably with what I did write and what I did say -- so you have to invent stuff and debate against that?

Quote:

Cleaner, safer cities? Less crime? Better access to health care? Fewer citizens in poverty and hopelessness? Better food? Music? Architecture? Better leaders? Absurd is exactly the word for what you are peddling!

I'm not "peddling" anything. I am giving opinions. Try to keep up.

Quote:

Germany WAS destroyed in order to halt its murderous advance and there were INDEED Germans who felt their country had reached such a state of debauchery that such extreme measures were warranted.

I am sure there were people like you in Germany who hoped for its destruction. I think they were wrong -- and I think your are wrong.

Quote:

As to the use of 'holocaust' and "nazism", I provided several illustrative quotes and could happily provide others. Mandella and Tutu both refer to Israel's disgusting perversions in the occupied territories as "apartheid"--a subject they are more than qualified to speak about. I'm Jewish, by the way--but even if I weren't, I would not be intimidated by Zionist nonsense and the instinct to cover Israel's crimes by reverting to the Jews' unique victimhood. It's repulsive.

Your attitude is repulsive -- but this is a free country and you are free to have as repulsive an attitude as you choose. AND THAT FREEDOM, Henry, is one of the really good points about America.

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I tend to agree with Henry on the subject of Israeli Nazis. I dislike Nazis, whatever nation they come from. We breed 'em on this soil, too. If there's anything I'd like to see the end of in this century (apart from fast food), it's power-mad, narrow-focus nationalism.

I don't think Bush has the stature of monster -- he is at heart a stupid, greedy little man. The monster is that part of the electorate which supports him, along with the politicos who made him. We have seen the enemy and he is us. Now that's a much bigger problem than we can get away with by pointing our fingers at one silly, adolescent bully like Bush.

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Why the left cannot cheer this liberation

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