Why the left cannot cheer this liberation

frank

Your "maturity" seems to have given way to senility.

Quote:

This country, like it or not, is engaged in an experiment in freedom that has not seen its like at any other time or in any other place on this planet. And we are doing an excellent job of it.

The remainder of your post provides absolutely no rebuttal to my characterization of America, but simply offers attacks on my views (and those of noted authorities I have cited) as "repulsive" or somehow not up to your level of sophisticated discourse--a tactic I find cheap and I must say, CHILDISH.

tartarin

in many ways I agree. The American (and Israeli) people must be called to account for the horrific misdeeds of their chosen leadership. We are not (in contrast to our Iraqi and Afghan victims who in general had no say in choosing either saddam or the u.s.-inspired taliban) innocent. The response to our collective sickness which occurred on 9/11 was altogether predictable given our behavior. Should we refuse to change it, we will certainly be attacked again. The days of collective punishment for Israel's and America's victims while we sit contentedly in peace and obliviousness are over. That's life.

0 Replies

Tartar and Henry, I'm not sure where the answer lies when the majority of our citizens think GWBush is doing a good job - shown by national polls. I'm apt to side with both of you on this issue of Israeli and American Nazis; when our country preempts a war with Iraq when the justifications that this administration used has not panned out; no WMD's, no al Qaida connection, and certainly not for the Iraqi people - they didn't ask us to bomb the **** out of their country, then help with their 'reconstruction' by giving contracts to the big contributors to this administration. That's rotten to the core, and I'll continue to speak to what I see as criminal and unethical behavior of our government towards our weaker brothers and sisters around this small planet. c.i.

0 Replies

There are productive ways to work for change within one's country.

I'd still like to hear henrygreen's list of superior nations, which don't deserve the fate of destruction.

If survival criteria is perfection in foreign policy, I'm thinking the aborgines in Papua, New Guinea will be the only ones left standing.

The reality of Nazism is thoughtlessly diluted by throwing the term around loosely, IMO. It's nothing more than hate speech.

0 Replies

Tartarin wrote:

I don't think Bush has the stature of monster -- he is at heart a stupid, greedy little man. The monster is that part of the electorate which supports him, along with the politicos who made him. We have seen the enemy and he is us. Now that's a much bigger problem than we can get away with by pointing our fingers at one silly, adolescent bully like Bush.

Tartarin

By now you surely know that I agree with you -- and with Henry -- on some of the stuff being discussed here.

My objection is not to his anger or the motivation for same -- but I strongly disagree with his calling for the destruction of the United States.

That has been my point here right along.

Do you agree with Henry that the solution to the negatives of America should be that we be destroyed as a country?

0 Replies

cicerone imposter wrote:

Tartar and Henry, I'm not sure where the answer lies when the majority of our citizens think GWBush is doing a good job - shown by national polls. I'm apt to side with both of you on this issue of Israeli and American Nazis; when our country preempts a war with Iraq when the justifications that this administration used has not panned out; no WMD's, no al Qaida connection, and certainly not for the Iraqi people - they didn't ask us to bomb the **** out of their country, then help with their 'reconstruction' by giving contracts to the big contributors to this administration. That's rotten to the core, and I'll continue to speak to what I see as criminal and unethical behavior of our government towards our weaker brothers and sisters around this small planet. c.i.

ci, my comments to Tartarin apply to you also.

So does the question.

0 Replies

hi sofia

I would urge you to spend a bit more time reviewing the tactics of the IDF in the occupied territories. You could hardly do better than to read some of the daily accounts in Ha'aretz--the leading Israeli daily.

One of the spokespersons for the IDF actually said that the Israelis should study the way the germans put down civil unrest in the Warsaw ghetto and internalize these techniques for use against the Palestinians (this is referenced in the link I earlier cited). Stop defending this appaling abuse of human beings and disgrace to the legacy of the Jewish people.

0 Replies

henrygreen wrote:

frank

Your "maturity" seems to have given way to senility.

Quote:
This country, like it or not, is engaged in an experiment in freedom that has not seen its like at any other time or in any other place on this planet. And we are doing an excellent job of it.

The remainder of your post provides absolutely no rebuttal to my characterization of America, but simply offers attacks on my views (and those of noted authorities I have cited) as "repulsive" or somehow not up to your level of sophisticated discourse--a tactic I find cheap and I must say, CHILDISH.

Obiously one of your other problems is that you do not know how to read.

Hey, your problems are many and serious.

Try to follow this, because I will take is slowly -- and use small words.

I cannot rebutt what I agree with -- I only rebutt the stuff I disagree with.

We have faults. That I agree with.

We should not be hoping our country is destroyed because of those faults -- there are better ways of dealing with it.

That was my rebuttal.

Try to keep up!

0 Replies

frank

I'm more than open to suggestions, where limiting America's extraordinary barbarity are concerned. We seem utterly indifferent to the rule of law or international condemnation for our actions. We are powerful, militarized, fascistic and on the move. I do not believe mankind in its currently embattled state will long survive the persistence of this terrible menace. I can imagine an America-free world, and it is a better, healthier world. Why cling to a failed program which has caused humanity unconscionable suffering? I can't defend that in any way.

0 Replies

Apparently you believe your condescending tone correlates with superior understanding. If you need this sort of thing as an ego-enhancer, let me know and I'll dispense pointing to the hollowness of your strategy.

0 Replies

Frank, I follow your opinions and ideas too; I don't wish for the destruction of this country for the weakness of our leadership. That would be insane; after all, our children must still have a future in this country. Rather, I think many of us are frustrated at the insanity of this administration and how the majority in this country 'seems' to approve the way they have man-handled our security and military in a way that breaks down the rule of law (our civil rights) and inhumanity towards or fellow man (by the preemptive military strike against another country). With all its faults, this country is still the "best on this planet," because it's makeup represents all cultures and countries from this world, and we still live in some sense of harmony. Ours is a young nation; and it's trying its best to achieve a form of democracy that provides equality to all its citizens. I've seen much progress during my short life time; I'm sure that will continue long after I'm gone. c.i.

0 Replies

Frank and Henry -

You two need to lighten up!

0 Replies

cicerone imposter wrote:

Rather, I think many of us are frustrated at the insanity of this administration and how the majority in this country 'seems' to approve the way they have man-handled our security and military in a way that breaks down the rule of law . c.i.

As you know, ci, I am second to none when it comes to deploring Bush and his insane bunch of handlers. They disgust me -- and the fact that so many Americans place their faith in this barbaric group troubles me more than I can put into words.

I still think Henry is so far out of line it probably is best to just leave him in the sewer and not try to drag him out.

0 Replies

GreenEyes wrote:

Frank and Henry -

You two need to lighten up!

Just having a bit of fun with Henry, GE. I've got a smile on my face -- and have had throughout the back and forth.

Be assured that I do not take myself very seriously -- but I like to poke people who do -- like Henry here.

We'll both tire of this soon and all will be calm once again.

0 Replies

GreenEyes, WELCOME to A2K. I'm surprised to see your first post as a "lighten up" refrain. Wink

c.i.

0 Replies

Be the bigger person Frank and let it go. What you are accomplishing with Henry is the equivalent of banging one's head against the wall.

0 Replies

Thanks for the welcome c.i. I thought I was going to have to pull out the waders ... it was getting a little deep in here reading Frank and Henry's posts!

0 Replies

frank

at last we agree on something! Your unimaginative barbs and refusal to engage in honest debate have indeed grown tiresome.

Wake me up if you have anything substantive to add.

0 Replies

GreenEyes wrote:

Be the bigger person Frank and let it go. What you are accomplishing with Henry is the equivalent of banging one's head against the wall.

Welcome to A2K, GE.

I'll take your advice and put this a to bed for now. There'll be other discussions in other places.

Hope you enjoy A2K as much as I do.

0 Replies

Quote:

Be assured that I do not take myself very seriously -- but I like to poke people who do -- like Henry here.

Fear not, Frank. I don't think anyone mistook you for a serious person.

0 Replies

"Do you agree with Henry that the solution to the negatives of America should be that we be destroyed as a country?"

Frank -- I'm not sure quite what Henry has in mind. I see it differently. I think we are in the process of self-destruction. Just this morning I started to read Gore Vidal's latest in the Nation. He points to Ben Franklin's assessment of what can happen in a non-vigilant democracy "carefully left out of our history books," comments Vidal. It's precisely what is occurring in the US now -- Franklin knew whereof he spoke. So it set me to thinking the following: perhaps we were doomed from the start. Perhaps we're the annuals which put out seeds which sprout elsewhere while we die off. (Sheesh, I sound like Chance the gardener!)

I value democracy enormously -- intelligent and dedicated and participatory democracy. Don't see it in this country anymore. Much as I love the place I live in now, and would miss it tremendously, I have a Plan B to return to Europe -- not for personal safety but because hypocrisy, violence and anomie are overwhelming this country.

0 Replies

Why the left cannot cheer this liberation

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know