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Does God Exist?

 
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:08 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Show me a homophobe that isn't a christian.

What would that prove?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:11 pm
Mesquite,

I honestly don't know if it's learned or what. I do know that we all have a choice to make. We either engage in sinful activity or we don't.

And by the way, again Mesquite. Intrepid's views on this have no bearing on mine whatsoever, just as I am sure mine have no bearing on his.

C.I.,

Man, where is Frank? At least when he was here he'd help you out. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:12 pm
Quote, "What would that prove?"

Exactly my point.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:13 pm
Just type "christians and homosexuals" and you'll get over 1.6 million hits. Guess why.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:14 pm
J_B wrote:

For example, your response to CI last night completely escaped me until Mesquit highlighted it above and I realised afterwards that echi was probably using your words in her post about believing in homosexuality.

(Just for the record... I was not using MA's words, and I am not a "her".)
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:14 pm
echi wrote:
Quote:

If someone does not think that homosexuality is real (I'm talking physiologically, not behaviorally) that does not, in itself, make a person homophobic.


echi, help me out here... I'm not grasping the point you are trying to make.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:16 pm
On the other hand, type "buddhists and homosexuality," and you'll find:

"There are many schools, sects and subsects of Buddhism. As with Christianity, no consensus exists within Buddhism about gay and lesbian relationships. Buddhism is most concerned with whether an action is helpful and based on good intentions. This differs from Christianity which often evaluates an action, based on whether it is good or evil; positive or sinful according to a system of morality."[/[/color]B]
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:16 pm
echi wrote:
J_B wrote:

For example, your response to CI last night completely escaped me until Mesquit highlighted it above and I realised afterwards that echi was probably using your words in her post about believing in homosexuality.

(Just for the record... I was not using MA's words, and I am not a "her".)


Sorry, I wondered about the 'her' as I typed it.

I really don't understand what believing in homosexuality means. Thanks,
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:16 pm
CI--

Can you not articulate your point, or do you not have one?
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:17 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Show me a homophobe that isn't a christian.

I think the muslims have their share. :wink:
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:24 pm
Quote:
Speaking generally, religious beliefs within the world's major faith groups are based on four main foundations: revelation in the form of a holy text; religious tradition; logic and reason; and personal experience.
bullet More liberal movements within these religions often tend to stress logic, reason, and personal experience. This includes scientific findings. It is only since about 1950 that homosexuality has been seriously studied by human sexuality researchers. Liberal individuals and groups within Christianity, Islam and other religions have been quick to incorporate scientific findings within their ethical and religious beliefs. They generally regard homosexuality as a sexual orientation which is ethically neutral, fixed, unchosen, and is normal and natural for a minority of adults.
bullet More conservative movements tend to stress revelation and tradition. Their beliefs are anchored to the past. Their beliefs are much less liable to change rapidly. They generally regard homosexuality as a deviate and disordered behavior, which is immoral, changeable, chosen, abnormal and unnatural.

A person's beliefs about homosexuality tend to be determined less by their religion, then where their beliefs lie on the liberal-conservative divide. For this reason, conservative Christians and Muslims tend to have similar beliefs about the nature and origin(s) of homosexuality, as well as God's attitude towards homosexuals.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_isla.htm
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:27 pm
J_B wrote:

Sorry, I wondered about the 'her' as I typed it.

I really don't understand what believing in homosexuality means. Thanks,

No problem about the pronoun thing. I guess it isn't really important.

I haven't formed an opinion as to whether homosexuality has a biological basis or is only a behavior. But I know people who believe it is simply a choice that people make. To them, all people are fundamentally heterosexual, even though some deny their true nature and engage in homosexual behavior. Knowing these people as well as I do (those who don't believe in "homosexuality") I am absolutely certain that they are not all homophobics.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:29 pm
Again J_B, long before I became a Christian the very thought of a man and a man or a woman and a woman together sexually made my stomach turn. Had nothing to do with religion.

And as far as that posted article? Your point? J_B, I rely on the Bible, remember? I do not rely on something someone writes to contradict what the Bible says.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:29 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Show me a homophobe that isn't a christian.


You have just cinched the title of most ridiculous and absurd posting on A2K. Is it your contention that nobody by Christians are homophobic? Am I the exception to the rule, being a Christian and not being homophobic? You are certain, beyond a doubt, that no atheist anywhere in this world is a homophobic. You can also say this for every other group in existence?

You make a totally silly comment and have absolutely nothing to back it up. Your hate for Christians is beyond comprehension and yes, even tolerance.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:32 pm
echi wrote:


I haven't formed an opinion as to whether homosexuality has a biological basis or is only a behavior. But I know people who believe it is simply a choice that people make. To them, all people are fundamentally heterosexual, even though some deny their true nature and engage in homosexual behavior. Knowing these people as well as I do (those who don't believe in "homosexuality") I am absolutely certain that they are not all homophobics.


Then using your definition from before...

echi wrote:
Quote:


... the people you know who think that everyone is biologically heterosexual and but some might choose to participate in homosexual acts (I admit I'm struggling with that concept, but I'm with you so far) are neither afraid of, have an aversion to, or would discriminate against homosexuals? Amazing!
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:32 pm
echi wrote:
J_B wrote:

Sorry, I wondered about the 'her' as I typed it.

I really don't understand what believing in homosexuality means. Thanks,

No problem about the pronoun thing. I guess it isn't really important.

I haven't formed an opinion as to whether homosexuality has a biological basis or is only a behavior. But I know people who believe it is simply a choice that people make. To them, all people are fundamentally heterosexual, even though some deny their true nature and engage in homosexual behavior. Knowing these people as well as I do (those who don't believe in "homosexuality") I am absolutely certain that they are not all homophobics.


Echi,
Are you aware that every fetus starts out as a girl? The change to male and female takes place later in the cycle. Do you not think it possible that errant genes, or whatever...I am not a medical person... cause feminine traits in an otherwise fully developed male? Some of it may be by choice, but I think it is beyond that.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:34 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Just type "christians and homosexuals" and you'll get over 1.6 million hits. Guess why.


Probably 70% of your posts are included! Rolling Eyes That is why!
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:34 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Mesquite,

I honestly don't know if it's learned or what. I do know that we all have a choice to make. We either engage in sinful activity or we don't.

And by the way, again Mesquite. Intrepid's views on this have no bearing on mine whatsoever, just as I am sure mine have no bearing on his.


Well, you said that you agreed with what Intrepid said, which is why I asked for confirmation. Obviously you do not agree with what he said. You also said

"if anyone in your family is truly a Christian, THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN HOMOSEXUALITY! Get a clue!"

I assume that Intrepid considers himself a true Christian so his views do have a bearing.

As for why I may appear to take this issue personally, the fact that a member of my family is homosexual does I think, give me a more personal insight. having a personal insight however, should be necessary in order to do the right thing.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:37 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Again J_B, long before I became a Christian the very thought of a man and a man or a woman and a woman together sexually made my stomach turn. Had nothing to do with religion.

And as far as that posted article? Your point? J_B, I rely on the Bible, remember? I do not rely on something someone writes to contradict what the Bible says.


I realised quickly after hitting submit that I should have referenced Mesquit's post to Islam and homosexual intolerance. I found the reference to philosophy more than religion as a predicter of tolerance interesting, which I think corresponds to what you said here about your opinions not being a result of your religion.

Quote:
A person's beliefs about homosexuality tend to be determined less by their religion, then where their beliefs lie on the liberal-conservative divide. For this reason, conservative Christians and Muslims tend to have similar beliefs about the nature and origin(s) of homosexuality, as well as God's attitude towards homosexuals.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 05:39 pm
Amazing, maybe. But true, nonetheless.
A cousin of mine came out to our family several years ago. Since then, it's become clear how we all feel about the subject. My sister, for example, believes that our cousin made a choice to be gay, but that doesn't stop her from going to gay clubs with him. And she is also not in favor of any anti-gay legislation.
0 Replies
 
 

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